RavishingRickRudo

He's an old man, what more can you expect? For an old man NOT to be on TV?

I'm at the part where Angel gets back with the gang after having gone "bad" for a while. It's really fun to watch because Kate and Lindsay leave the show round this time and you see the foundation of what the show will be based around for the next 3 seasons.

Fuck, this "Benoit's dogging it" myth is still floating around?

Benoit's the most fluid wrestler in the WWE - his movements are so smooth. Add in the stiffness and he's the only guy right now who I enjoy watching. Flair is just disturbing to watch.

Because they have Benoit... ... I thought that was already stated?

That's right. Maybe if he landed on someone. I forgot to mention innovating...

You seem way to obsessed with this and seem to have some sort of strong dislike to ROH that rivals that strong like that ROH fans have for the product Obsessed? How? I posted my distain for the ROH fans in one thread, and how Dragon/London wasn't MOTY in another... boy, I sure am obsessed. 2 whole threads dedica - no wait, a dozen posts maybe? IN ALL? Hardly a threads worth... I wanted to like ROH. I heard the hype, saw a few choice matches on-line, bought a tape.. the tape was supposed to be one of their best shows. I couldn't stand what I was seeing. If I wanted Japanese Wrestling, I'd buy Japanese wrestling... not some imitation (oops "innovation")... I dunno, maybe I'm too "old school" but I don't want business exposing announcers and crowds surrounding my wrestling.... and I don't want my wrestling to be two guys pretending to be Misawa. "Thank you both," Thank you for what? Oh, for putting on an athletic contest full of flashy moves and high workrate~? They sure did "work" that crowd. I'm glad the ROH audience was couteous enough to not only clap for them, but to explain that clapping meant appreciation... I fail to see where the crowd trying to get themselves over is a bad thing. It doesn't matter why they're chearing as long as they're there and making some noise. Ok, and I can't find it annoying-as-hell when fans are more interested in chanting than watching the match unfold?

I can't believe people see "the total package" in people who can't do high flying...

Both shows suck, but only one show has Benoit. He's basically the only reason I am watching the WWE right now.

Why are you shocked - I'm pretty sure I've stated my Hogan Mark tendancies on this board a few times.... I don't see a lot of style differences with the "big" promotions in Japan. I found the transition quite easily into All Japan style since the pacing was similar to Hogans matches and the slow build wasn't an issue. Maybe promotions like Toryumon and Mich Pro where its more Lucha-based, but even then that's not a huge leap as say, Lucha Libre is. If you want a reference, why don't you just say "who do you like in the WWE or WCW?"

If I had to watch Flair over-and-over-and-over I'd end up shooting myself in the head by match 13... The indy guys are more ~fun~ to watch, than "better". I dug AJ vs. Ki from Zero-One a ton.

I don't know why wrestlers have to be broken up into "American" and "Japanese" since the Japanese style has been heavily influenced by the American, and vice-versa. Only in non-traditional promotions like UWF-i or Pancrase, I can see the issue being made, since they have different rules and standards for a match.

I did not say that Hogan is/was a better wrestler than Flair - it just means that I would watch a Hogan match before a Flair match. I dig Hogan's matches.

That's cause I like Hogan more than Flair (maybe you can see why I hate Flair marks now )

STOP IT!! *covers ears and cries* STAAAAHAAAAHAAAAPITT!

So I'm watching Smackdown last night... Kurt Angle calls Benoit "the most sadistic... wrestler he has ever been in the ring with". He says that with Benoit, they are unbeatable. Benoit wins the tag match in convincing fashion with Angle playing the stooge for Cena/Albert. And finally, Benoit comes in at the Main Event and puts Brock in the crossface and is the last guy to get beaten up. Does this feel strange for anyone??? Is Benoit actually getting a PUSH TO THE TOP? I know he's been there before, but not like this. In 2000 he was a heel, in 2001 it wasn't really built up in a way where Benoit could actually WIN the title from Austin (though Benoit DID get very over at the time) and against Angle earlier this year I think we all knew he was fodder for the new champ. But now they're, you know, making him look good... like he could win the title. Like there is actually a CHANCE of it happening - a small one, but it's the biggest one yet.

I don't dislike Flair. Infact, I like Flair very much. I just hate Flair Marks who think he is the unquestioned lordgod of the ring when I wouldn't even put him in my top 10. If I had a choice to watch a flair match, or a match of the following, I would pick the following without a second thought... -Benoit -Guerrero -Misawa -Kawada -Kobashi -Jumbo -Hansen -Hogan -Vader -Takada -Lyger -Hart -Austin ah hell, lets throw some indy guys in there too.. -American Dragon -Low Ki -AJ Styles

I've seen better.

Because *the crowd* is *competing* with *each other* for no reason (I'd understand if they had been doing it during a spot where Dragon and London were trading holds and the crowd support dictated the pace of the match - but it didn't). When they started doing that, when they started trading chants at each other, it stopped being about the match and started being about *them*

WildPeg, that's silly, ROH fans are the best fans in the world... just ask them. RRR: Waiting for a "We're the best" "We're the best" "We're the best" chant. And hopefully there will be other people in the arena/gym that will add "Fans in the World" to help fill in the blank for all those who can't figure it out... cause you know, they're polite...

And of course, you can't be biased by your participation in the aforementioned chant... right? In 2001 when Austin was in his "what" phase, and Kurt Angle was getting his "You suck" chant during his entrance - it eventually evolved into "You Suck - WHAT" "You Suck - What"... chants evolve, it's just a matter of self-interested fans and time. And it was trading chants - if they actually did care about supporting the wrestler there would have been overlap - it would have sounded like "lets go longran" or "Lets go Dradon" where eventually the louder side wins... You know, Like the Ortiz/Couture fight, or Rock Hogan...oh, but I forgot, those ROH fans are more courteous than those other fans and politely let each other have their turn for no reason other than supporting their wrestler-of-choice.

It's the "taking turns" part that really does it. I can't read minds, but I know what I see and hear. I've heard legitimate emotion being poured into a chant, with a legitimate reason behind it. I don't see this in that match with those fans.

I wasn't a big fan of "Billy". I thought the character was fascinating and had a really ominous look that juxtaposed well with Angels and they built him up really well in the eps. where Angel had to fight Skip and the prison of fire and whatnot (see, not good with eps names) ... and then he's in it for a single eps? Dats bullshit. Though it did have a "serious issue" involved, I just didn't think it just wasnt satisfying.

Don't worry, I suck at eps. titles too. http://www.tvtome.com/Angel/ I tend to reference this site for help.

So you're calling the ROH fans courteous? Oh my... Hey Jeff Hardy... what do you think of the ROH fans? Wrestling is fake yet the fans still present real emotions in a lot of instances - that ROH match isn't one of them. Hogan vs. The Rock WM18, there were people chanting for Rocky, they just happened to get drowned out by the Hogan fans - there was no "taking turns" so each side could "get over".