RavishingRickRudo

It's all coming together. IT'S ALL COMING TOGETHER!!!

We all know why the WWE would never sign Rue McClanahan...

Bas was in this lil known punk group from Holland known as "The Liver Shots". They had a top 40 in the UK called "Jesus Christ what a Palm Strike", it was pretty catchy.

Ok, here's what I'm betting. Steph was a big Boy Krazy fan growing up in the early 90's and went to all their concerts and tried to dress like them and sing like them and act like them and generally be them. If you read the lyrics to the song "That's what love can do" it basically outlines the entire McMahon/Helmsly love-affair (being "too young for the game" "one time lovers turned enemies" "on the road forever" "and all the promises you won't keep" "lets bury Jericho together" "broken promises and jealousy" "I dont want to bring you to your knees" (the pedigree) It all makes sense.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/popmagzuk/saw/a...ists/boyk01.jpg she's the one in the centre.

That's What Love Can Do Boy Krazy chorus: That's what love can do I don't wanna Break your heart in two And leave you cryin' That's what love can do Oh, no, I want you to know I'm letting you go You're just a fool You say that I'm number one And you'll always be true How can this be You say you've fallen in love You don't know what it means But look around and you will see Broken promises and jealousy Is that what you should want for us to be One-time lovers turned enemies, but chorus All I can say Is that I'm looking no further ahead than today I'm too young for this game On the road to forever We don't know the way So just forget about eternity All the promises you just won't keep Look down any street and you will see I don;t wanna bring you to your knees, but chorus So just forget about eternity And all the promises you just won't keep Look down any street, that's what you'll see I don't wanna bring you to your knees, but chorus chorus to fade From: "If you lived here, you'd be home now."

Ok, so what we have here is another non-wrestling fan from an entertainment background (ie: another Coach, Leary, the dude doing update now) who knows dick-all about the product or the business and even worse this person is a chick. Now, I generally don't consider myself sexist, but when it comes to wrestling and talking about wrestling, chicks suck at it. And the WWE's track record in hiring women for non-wrestling roles isn't exactly stellar. The chick who did Mania with Todd Pentingill (who was another nonwrestling fan who sucked) sucked, Lillian Garcia still manages to flub lines, and Stephanie McMahon has been a cancer to the writing team. Yes, it's just Afterburn (for now!) but we all know she'll move over to Velocity and make the Cat look like Bobby freakin Heenan. So in other words, Vince is in no way learning from his mistakes in the past - infact, he is re-living them. No surprise here and no hope either.

Mourns the fall of Damarudo. You were too good for this world

Takers "jujigatame" was pretty gay though. I mean, I don't think I've ever seen anyone in MMA thrust like that before when putting on a "triangle choke/armbar" or whatever that godforesaken thing was. Typically I like Undershooter and his Undershooter abilities, moreso in an odd way than anything, but this was too odd. Plus, him trying to be Fedor doesn't cut it.

But you can make that case for virtually every major injury in wrestling outside of some botched neck drops on Droz and Austin. I'm just not sure you can make the case that Shawn's bumping was what delayed his career so much rather than the normal wear and tear that eventually takes down everyone eventually. Ok, have you ever SEEN a Shawn Michaels match? Most, if not all, of his bumps are back-centric. Look at the powerbomb he took from Nash at WM 11 to finish off the match. All those turnbuckle flair-ish bumps. Seriously, if you're not making the connection then you just aren't looking. The problem is you don't just shake off multipule concusions when they stop directly bothering you. The cumlative effect makes you more and more susceptable to getting another one with less effort. That's why people like Troy Aikman and Eric Lindross got them so often and ended up being really easy to knock for a loop. But the "multiple concussions" came from the same match (I believe Bret said he had 3), and were hardly the result of Bret's style. Bret would have been able to continue to wrestle afterwards as there are examples of wrestlers getting over a dozen concussions who wrestle much more of a hardcore style (Foley, Dreamer, Bubba Ray) than Bret. Bret's style isn't All Japan Head Dropping style, yet Shawns is tons-of-back-bumps. But I think you're mistaken by thinking that Michaels got hurt prematurely do to his bumping. I think basically everyone is going to get hurt eventually and their style only dictates where the injury is going to end up coming from... Bret took shots to the head a whole lot, he got concussions. Shawn did a lot of back bumps, he got a back injury. Rey jumps around, knee. Benoit does a stronger style, neck. Comparing Bret's style of work (and the injuries incurred) to Shawns or Reys is ridiculous. Bret never took any more headbumps than the avg wrestler; Shawn is known for his bumping and Rey is known for his flying. Besides the point of the match was to get Shawn over anyway and not Nash... who was headed out the door. It ended up getting both guys a little more over which is okay with me. They have a various matches during their tenure, not just when Nash was going out. Their WM 11 match was to get Nash over. But the point is not that Hogan made draws out of Bundy and Warrior... the point is that there is very little way that say, Andre, could have made a draw out the match up that he wasn't in. It's not like jobbing to Nash suddenly implanted all of Shawn's skills into the big lug. It seems to me as though you're saying Nash (bad draw) + Tatanka (AWEFUL draw) = Shawn did something wrong and I'm not seeing it. No, what I am saying is that "Shawn made Nash into a monster" is incorrect. I am saying that these infamous carry-jobs, in the end, just put Shawn closer and closer to a hospital bed. Beats me, you're the one that said Hogan was what got the nWo over... I just refuted it by saying Hall and Nash were a tremendous asset to the angle and that Shawn helped them get over to the point where they weren't seen as joke coming into WCW. Was Michaels the only reason? Ha Ha no. A piece of the puzzle? Sure. I said that the NWO angle didn't start to heat up until Hogan joined. Hall and Nash's personalities made the NWO 'cool'. Vince McMahons promoting made them names. Bischoff packaging made them interesting. Shawn's bumping did nothing (well, it helped Hall in the 'work' dept, I'll give him that.) It was when Nash powerbombed Bischoff through the table at GAB96 that I really started to take notice of this and said "this is no ordinary thing". THAT is what made them a threat, not what they did in the WWF. It's the fact that they were 2 guys from the WWE invading WCW and beating up their top guys. The intrigue of "who's the 3rd member" and it being Hogan is why skyrocketted it. Wow, so basically everything I said above is what I originally said on page 8... Point 1: Shawns insane bumping from matches like his ones with Nash are the reason he had to retire. When Mike says that style "worked" better than Brets, in the end it clearly didn't as it prevented Shawn from missing out on the WWE's post-tyson success. Bret's injuries were not related to his matches with Nash nor his style of work, but moreso related to a freak kick and then stupid booking which followed. Two completely different things. Point 2: What do we talk about today? Do we talk about how great Nash was in those matches, or do we talk about how great Shawn was? Does Nash get ANY credit? Did he even get any at the time? Besides, Nash was leaving by Mania 11 too? How come Shawns' carry-jobs didn't help Nash draw in the WWE? How come it was only until after he and Hall were packaged as 'invaders' and teamed up with Hogan -one of the biggest draws of all time- that the money started flowing in. I wouldn't exactly say that it was Shawns' carry jobs that made Nash successful, but rather smart booking by WCW.

Benjamins voice is perfect for promos, he just needs the right material. Haas is perfectly fine on the mic.

*awards self Buffy/Office Space medal of excellence*

It's funny cause ECW was still doing big business in terms of drawing fans to shows, yet JC is considered a "weak" champion. The reason the company went under was because of poor financial management; the fan support was always there.

The old watcher was the dude from Office Space, right? "It's a jump to conclusions door mat!"

Well he wrestled as a cruiserweight and a heavyweight all at the same time... didntchaknow? *groan*

But it will be a match that gets the promotion of 3 matches - like ALL Vince McMahon matches. It will get the 7-segment-a-show treatment.

The qualifications for the Hall are as such: -High Drawing -High Ability -High Influence Benoit got in under Ability. The Gordy list (and JDW) contest that Shawn wasn't that great of an in-ring wrestler and based on ring-work alone he shouldn't get in.

The reason Shawn had to retire is generally attributed to the fluke bump he ended up taking against the casket when he faced The Undertaker although the bumping he took before hand on a daily basis probably didn't help matters. It was the straw that broke the camels back. On the other side of the coin, Bret's concussion against Goldberg was something like his tenth while at the same time he was battling knee trouble. But Bret would have recovered from the concussion within a short period of time (much shorter than say, the 4 years it took HBK to come back in any wrestling capacity), if it wasn't for the continuous head trauma he suffered afterwards he wouldn't have had to retire. Hart was banged up, but still functional and I doubt you could attribute his injuries to his style, but rather general wear-and-tear through-out a 20 year career. Bret likes to make the claim that in his time with the WWE he only missed, what, 2 days? Mikes point was that Shawns style worked better than Brets, and my point is the cost to Michaels body for the small return is hardly "better" than what Bret did. The fact that Shawn missed a profitable period for the WWF is more a lack of good luck on his part than a direct effect of his bumping. We aren't talking about a five year career here Rick, Shawn was in the business something like ten years before his back gave out. That's kind of typical to be honest... Usually it's knee injuries for wrestlers. Besides, the point was how well that bumping "worked". Did it get Shawn all the big bucks from the Attitude era? No. Did it get Nash over as a monster? No. So all it did was get a watchable match. Meanwhile, Bret did the same thing but didn't suffer nearly the damage. So what "worked better"? Did Nash ever get credit for anything he ever did? No one has ever looked at a Nash match and been all "WOW HE'S SUPER" ... Bret couldn't do that. Shawn couldn't do that. But the fact that those two got something out of Nash that was completely watchable is still impressive. Ok, how does that relate to what I'm saying? I'm not the one saying Shawn made Nash "look like a monster". Yes, getting a watchable match out of Nash is impressive, never said it wasn't, I was questioning the worth of the method and the outcome. I don't know how anyone else not in angle is supposed to make Nash a draw against Mable and Tatanka anyway so maybe you can learn me how that could happen. I dunno, Hogan drew against King Kong Bundy and Warrior and Zeus... Kinda funny when you look back on it, eh? Besides, if Shawn made Nash "look like a Monster" shouldn't that have paid off at all? Sure the Nash reign as WWF champion was a failure... but the WHOLE FREAKING CARD was a mess filled with Doink the Clowns and Luna Vachons. It's not like things turned right around the second Nash lost the belt either. But you can't say it got worse, cause Nash is generally regarded as the lowest drawing Champion in WWE history. The nWo angle worked for three reasons... 1) The shock of Hulk Hogan turning heel for the first time in something like 15 years 2) The question of who was going to join the group next 3) Hall and Nash acting like themselves and getting a whole lot more over than they did as cartoon characters in the WWF. Please, lets not revise history so much that Nash and Hall didn't get over like gangbusters I agree. And how does Shawn and his bumping relate to ANY of this? Keep your eyes on the prize Goodear.

Oooh goody, this will be like the epic McMahon vs. Mr America feud that took up so much fucking time to accomplish dicknothing.

Sapp vs. Noguiera from Pride: Shockwave and Takayama vs. Frye from Pride 21: Demolition are considered 2 classics in MMA history... But they can't be considered great or even good fighters. Takayama is all about getting his ass kicked and Sapp is pure size and strength. Don't get me wrong, I like them both and love the aforementioned matches they were in, but technical wonders they are not. Some say that if Sapp trained harder that he could be in a league of his own (literally as there would be no one to fight) but his current fame in Japan does not allow for that (as shown in his Kimo fight where he supposedly got gassed a minute into the match). Takayama is just a punching bag and gained alot of respect for the japanese fans after the beating he took at the hands of Don Frye. As for the match itself (I'm assuming you mean the one where Sapp armbarred Takayama) some cry "work" simply because Sapp armbarred Takayama, and a case could be made that it was. It wasn't anything special.

Stiffness makes the match look more real and therefore makes it easier to suspend disbelief.

I love it cause it's as if Cole is the grizzled vet who's seen and done in all in this thing called professional wrestling... Which we all know he's not.

That depends as the bar keeps getting raised higher and higher in regards to spots. What was a huge bump 10 years ago may seem tame today. What gives those bumps any sort of relevance is the placement in the match. The "why". Which is the same for any move done in wrestling. Mindless spotfests, no matter how entertaining or jaw dropping, still won't be "good wrestling". If I wanted to watch effort without substance why wouldn't I just watch a Hockey game or a Marathon? An individual match can have it's pro's and con's, selling, bumping, moveset, psychology, story, etc. and appreciation can be given to each just as it can be buried for each. Just like a movie can have great acting but bad scriptwriting and cinematography. A good spotfest, without substance, is ultimately still a spotfest. Which doesn't mean you can't enjoy it all the less, it just means realize it is what it is and nothing more.

I prefer the term "rookiekid" as they are the two most common words Cole would use in a match involving someone like Orlando Jordan, John Cena, Randy Orton, etc.

Now, were you saying "what the fuck" to Storm saying Kawada was a weak worker cause he worked stiff (as he did back in the Storm vs. DVDVR days) dispite having infinitely better matches than Lance, or are you saying "What the fuck" cause we were thinking the same thing