RavishingRickRudo

I'm getting a Vader in UWF-i tape soon, I'll get back to ya (Vader gets the usual "king koophass" love, but Spivey, Albright, Gordy, hell, even Williams don't get the love round here... maybe its because Spivey and Albright for the most part sucked, but when they were good they were real good IMO) And here is the Kane vs. Big Show match. It was from Raw 02, late Jan. I was close! KANE (with Let Us Take You Back to Royal Rumble) v. WELL IT'S THE BIG SHOW - I guess this now that this tag team is colliding, Show can go back to his preferred method of tagging with cruiserweights? This replay of Kane elminating Show from the Rumble is ALSO rated TV-14-DLV, thanks! Also, it's still pretty impressive that Kane could keep him off the ground even if he didn't press him three or four times like he usually does with less...I would say "hefty" folk. Show moves from staredown into shove in the face, Kane shoves back, and we're on. Show with repeated punches and knees - well it's the big right - well it's the big into the ropes, well it's the big clothesline. ZOMBIE SITUP! Show with a kick - and drops the elbow. 1, 2, nope. Right, stomp, stomp, well it's the big sidewalk slam, leg is hooked, 2. It's all Show thus far - and now he clamps on the headlock. Kane to his feet - elbow, elbow, elbows out - ducks a Show clothesline, right, right, right, off the ropes, clothesline, STILL on his feet, off the ropes and Show unleashes the big bad boot tonight. Kane put into the corner, but he evades the charge. Show walks into a HOLY SHIT BODYSLAM! Thumb crosses throat - Kane's going up. Show's back on his feet...Kane to the air - Show catches him with the goozle and here's ahhhhhTHECHOKESLAAAAAM. It's ALL over - 1, 2, NO!!!! Crowd: "1, 2, 3 - OHHHH!" - Show: "What the (fuck)?" Well it's the big elbowdrop MISSES and Kane slowly gets back to his feet. To the corner, but Show puts up the elbow. Show rushes in - KANE with a choke - Show fights out with two elbows and a big headbutt. Off the ropes - KANE with a back elbow - big boot - choke - CHOKESLAM - 1, 2, 3!! Kane wins! (2:50) NOW what do you do with him?

I like Hansen, Spivey, Gordy, Williams, Albright. If they aint the hosses of hosses, I don't know who ai... I mean are. Nothing closet about that - I just hate BAD hosses.

To me, anyone who says a)"Angle is a total package" and b)"Angle is better than Benoit (or Guerrero)" is out of their fuckin minds. (and that "next Ric Flair" thing, which is Meltzer based... Meltz is a fuckin moron with these things though)

Nah, I'd say Kane vs. Big Show from Smackdown around Feb 01 was better. It was shorter, of course, but it had some really nice clotheslines and stiff action. Basically, all that you could ask for from both of them. I don't remember Kane/Albert being all that good, but the Big Show/Kane match had me saying "damn, this is actually a good match"

How'd I know this would be the "forgotten classic"? There are so many layers to this match - the only thing that could reach it is Austin/Hart WM 13 in terms of "WWE as art" and that's cutting it close (maybe Warrior/Savage Wm 7). Hart Foundation vs. Demolition 2/3 falls from SS 90 was an awesome match. It's been about a decade since I've seen it last, but it has to be good if it holds up this long It's not so much 'forgotten' as it is 'under appreciated'.

Pfft, Brock can't throw a fraction of the dynamite that was in Doctor Deaths punches. That's a hoss, bah gawd! Taker vs. Big Show/Albert was nifty cause Taker had his workin boots ™ on, Albert was game, Big Show was used sparringly, the booking was good, they didn't do anything out of their ability (which is very important), the pacing was right on, they worked the abdominal stretch~! and Nathan Jones was barely in it. That last one was really the best part And Albert took the tombstone.

Exactly. Albert may have a nifty moveset, hits hard, works hard "for a big guy", etc. etc. But it doesn't translate into good matches. I mean, I LIKE Albert matches, I liked his match vs. Taker w. Big Show at Mania and expect the Summerslam match to be decent... but thats it... decent. Nothing to toot his horn about or cry outrage that he isn't getting as far as he should. I think he needs to be sent away to OVW for a while, repackaged, and sent back to the WWE as a new man. Possibly as a bodyguard for an up-and-comer. RRR: Believes in the "go away for a while, come back with new talent" process in rebuilding a wrestler.

Mind giving "your opinion" on what workrate is? ...Just so we don't have conflicting views on what it is.

Well, I figure bumping has something to do with workrate (or workrate has something to do with bumping), but I don't see intricate limb selling as being workrate related. That seems more to do with the psychological artistry of wrestling, than the physical effort involved - which would be "workrate"... Besides, "workrate freaks" would have "let off" several other guys, and would have ignored even more.

Zero? Does workrate even entail selling?

KOTC has two major things going against it. 1)The Tiny Cage. Which is like a ECW-esque octagon compared to the WWE's UFC octagon. So you will get the feeling that it's a minor-league. 2)The bald dude. I don't know why he's there, he doesn't fight, he's just there cause he "looks like a fighter". It's annoying as hell. (ok, 3) the announcers can annoy you at times) KOTC is owned (at least, I believe it is owned) by Bas Rutten which means it has connections to Pride (Pride is a sponsor) - which means you'll get to see some Pride fighters going at it (though it's typically "B" level fighters, Daijiro Matsui, Akira Shoji, etc). A lot of the Lions Den guys fight there - so if you like Ken Shamrock you'll like this... if you're like me and you hate Shammy, then you might have a problem because AAAALLL the LD fighters LOOOOVE to suck the shamcock. However, the best part is not the "name" fighters, it's the up-and-comers. Quinton Jackson really established his name in KOTC before going to Pride, Bang Ludwig is another guy who looked impressive in KOTC before going to the UFC (for that one fight, but there will be more). It's kinda like the ECW of MMA in that way. However, like ECW, it has its fair share of shitty guys and fighters winding down their career. The fights go for 2 rounds, 5 minutes each (the fights I've seen go that way, things may have changed). There have been some really good fights (Rampage vs. Eastman) that are worth watching, but there have been some stinkers (RIP Ochai). I recommend getting the "Greatest hits" dvd first which is a best of, it features a variety of fights (Bang vs. Shad Smith!!! Greatest...asskicking...EVER) with KO's and Subs, see how you like it, and then get the rest. But I think that's included in the box set, so whatever... I haven't seen every show, they sell em up here for like $35 a pop, which is not worth it at all, but $20 for the set? That's a pretty sweet deal. I wouldn't consider it a must have, nor would I point to it and say "THIS is MMA!", but really 20 bucks plus shipping, which is what 30? in total. You won't really be getting ripped off cause IMO, the Greatest Hits DVD alone is worth 20 bucks (though that's Canadian ). However, I can rent it at the local video store so there's really no need. What 2 pride dvds did you get??

Raw: HHH Smackdown: HHH RRR: Filling the Quota.

Val is a victim of Russo's short-term gimmicks. The thing they needed to do badly was take the name away, which they did, only to give it right back to him - and even worse they just did it with little to no explanation and just assumed we'd accept it. Val is an "average" wrestler. He doesn't really have bad matches, he doesn't have great ones, his moveset is fine (and All Japan inspired, which is bonus), he performs moves well, his promos are good, his look is good, etc. etc. But it's that damned name and gimmick he has to jump over. I say just stick him down in OVW for a few months, repackage, and team him up with a new comer. RRR: Benjamin vs. Venis, Dark Match/Smackdown from Toronto in October, REALLY good.

20 Hours without electricity = Food being ruined = Crazy Traffic = Listening to the same thing on the radio over and over and over again = Rolling Pennies to pass the time = $2 :) Why yes, I do have a lot of spare change ($100 in dimes alone) RRR: LIKED the power outage.

This is all a conspiracy by Meltzer to get more readers.

Gump all the way. I'll say this about Hanks, if there was anyone else cast in his role in CastAway, I would have hated that movie.

Did this board get dumber because of the blackout? Seriously, I'd really like to know who these "internet marks" or "IWC" are because it sure as hell doesn't apply to me, and it seems it doesn't apply to a lot of people in this thread. So can we either cut the generalizations or use more accurate generalizations, cause this seems to be going nowhere. On the issue of carrying, there are various forms of it. There's the HBK bumping system where he just lets his opponent (Nash or Sid, usually) just throw him around and they "look good" in the process, there's the kawada/albright smart selling system which isn't so much making things look dangerous as it is making things seem dangerous, there's the Austin system which is one guy basically controlling the match because he has to or else he'd die, there's the Jericho system which is a combination of bumping and taunting the crowd (Jericho is able to get good matches out of Hogan for crying out loud!), there's the Benoit system where he beats the crap outta you and you beat the crap outta him and it's all good, etc. etc. So in the end there is no one way to identify whether or not someone is carrying, you have to actually watch the match and see what each respective guy does in it. In fact, the best way of measuring a carry-job is if it doesn't seem like a carry-job at all. I point to Kawada/Albright for that. Some really smart stuff in that match.

The Arnold bit was fucking hilarious. "There you go talking black again, Andy"

Or "Wow, what a shitty PPV, everything was bad cept for that thing that non-wrestler did.... why am I watching this show anyways when the best wrestling comes from a non wrestler??"

I'd love to see Josh fight for Pride. Silva vs. Yoshida? That's suicide.

We all find ourselves there at some point RE01, it's just a matter of dealing with it and knowing that -in time- it will pass.

No, Hall and Nash with Hogan did.

Yeah, I mean, Nash and Hall were HUGE losses, weren't they? Kevin "Lowest Drawing Champion in History" Nash, Scott "insert witty line about him being drunk" Hall... It wasn't that big of a stretch to have some of HHH's buddies come back, especially if they came with Hogan. If you take a look around, you'll find very few wrestlers bad mouth Vince simply because there is always the chance that they could work for him again.

God that JR card has been played way too much. Regal and Storm beat up on JR Bischoff beats up on JR Kane beats up on JR In like 6 fucking months!

I don't think many wrestlers would do that to Vince. There's burning bridges, and then there's burning the only bridge out of town...