RavishingRickRudo

KING PLAYER MAXIMUM X There is a reason CHARLES GUNN was not listed amongst the 5 Players. Where Wesley was golden, Gunn was the diamond of Angel Season 5; thus earning him the namesake of KING PLAYER MAXIMUM X. To fully understand the meaning of the KPMX, you must first understand what it is to be a PLAYER. A Player is someone who steps up their game and makes you take notice. They may not have the most lines or the biggest part, but when they are in a scene your attention gravitates towards them and when they are not in a scene you wish that they were. They rise above their role and make an impact. That is what a Player is and that is what Charles Gunn was in every single episode of the season. Where Wesley delivered the deeper performance, where Spike was more funny, where Illyria and Harmony were more fuckable, and where Hamilton kicked more ass, Charles Gunn still made a bigger impact that any of these other 5. Introduced in the late-end of Season 1, Gunn was more known for his name than his role ("Who is it?" "Gunn" "What did he say" "I think he said he has a gun" "No, my name is Gunn"). However, his character grew beyond the street-wise hoodlum and into a smart, reliable character with an edge. Sadly, that edge wore off in Season 3 when he made eyes for Winnifred Burkle and that relationship effectively killed off any appeal Gunn had. His most memorable performance at this time, ironically enough, was in "Billy", where he was able to fight off the outside influence to save Fred, which ultimated won her over. He then went on to have some good moments in various episodes such as in "Waiting in the Wings" where he was breathtaken by the performances of the ballerinas. Those moments were few and far between. It was not to be lost, though, as Gunn made a rebound in Season 4 and became a reliable cast member. His interactions with Connor in particular were very good. At the end of Season 4, where the crew was taken through the Wolfram and Heart offices, Gunn figured they would put him in charge of security - seeing as he always considered himself the "muscle" of the group. It was not to be, however, and he was sent to the "white room" with the "big cat". The encounter was enigmatic but interesting and lead to the character seen at the end of "Conviction". Gone was the street-savvy thug, in was the wall-street savvy lawyer-thug with the mizzle skillizzills. A smooth talker in the courtroom and lover of Gilbert and Sullivan, the up-grade wasn't just to the benefit of Charles Gunn, it was to the benefit of the viewers as well. Gunn constantly "brought it"; every scene he was in, every word that he spoke, every single moment was a joy to behold. The hints of greatness that sparkled in previous years came out in full force and he never looked back. J August Richards is a black man. Infact, he is the first ever black core character in the Whedonverse. Often on television or film, you'd get characters defined by their colour, however it was never like that for Gunn. Well, maybe for -like- the first 2 seasons, but not in Season 5. Here you had a character that was deeper than the "Yo Yo, where be the ladies bling, oh lordamursay, look at deez rims!" that we see on shows like MTV (insert every show here), any Wayans brother movie expect Low Down Dirty Shame or maybe Most Wanted, and shows like The Practice and 7th Heaven. No, you didn't get that with Gunn. Here was a complex character who wanted to step off of the streets and be more than what everyone expected him to be. However, his choices were not without consequence, and he suffered them dearly. The desperation he showed in wanting Fred back was heart-wrenching and how he elected to suffer the punishment showed the kind of man he was. But ultimately, it comes down to one particular act which puts Charles Gunn above the Wesleys, the Harmonys, and the Illyrias of the world.... GUNN (singing Broadway style with ease) Three little maids who, all unwary, Come from a ladies' seminary, Freed from its genius tutelary— (picks up a printout from the printer; continues to sing) Three little maids from school! Three little maids— (notices Wesley is at his door, changes to singing Rap style, but struggles) ..and ya don't stop with all the ladies in the...gangsta but ... go (speaking) What's up? WESLEY I should ask you. You seem unutterably cheery. GUNN I am. (closes his folder) I am. (puts down the folder; walks toward Wesley, excited) Look, I gotta be straight with you 'cause this is kinda blowin' my mind. WESLEY Tell me. GUNN Fred and I are getting back together. (Wes gasps nearly inaudibly, stares at Gunn, trying hard not to react) She was so keyed up from last night's fight, she asked me over. We ended up talking for hours like old times, (Wesley looks down, in shock) then, all of a sudd— I can't even keep this up 'cause your face is gonna make me weep. Wes, I am so messin' with you. ... and killing the senator with a hatchet. That was COLD BLOODED. Back in Season 1, who would have expected such great things out of Charlies Gunn? I don't think anyone could have, and even up until the beginning of Season 5, no one truly knew what he was capable of. That is why he is not only the breakout star of the year, he is the KING PLAYER MAXIMUM X

I WILL FUCKING TAKE ALL OF YOUZE ON! Spike__ is nothing but LACKEY for Angel. He didn't deserve to whoop Angels ass and he SUXZ.

FUCK Spike. The shows called "Angel", Angel is the motherfucking Hero, Angel should be owning, OWNING, PWN1N6!!!1 Spike. ...though Spike stabbing Angel through the chest in HITW was fanTURSTIC.

#5 - Spike A controversial pick -not because he's on the list, but rather, because he's not in the top 3- Spike indeed deserves recognition as a PLAYER. Personally, I don't think Spike belongs on Angel. I love the character, but I didn't think the show needed him for Season 5. And despite providing tons of laughs and sometimes some very dark drama, I still think that's the case. I think too much attention was given to him and not enough put on the long-time Angel characters and even on Angel himself. I didn't like when he beat Angel for the cup, and I didn't like the fact that he didn't abuse the young slayer. So that's why he's #5; they just should have called the show "Spike" cause that's how it seemed at times, and I want to watch "Angel". With that said, I still loved Spike on the show. I don't even know where to begin, really. I couldn't possibly pick the best quote, because there are way too many to choose from. The ones that stick out at the moment are him saying "You'll never take me Pavayne!" when the lights flicker out, and the "Astronauts/Cavement" argument. He says it all with such conviction; this is a man who truly puts 100% into his character. James Marsters is 1 of the Big 3, IMO. In the Whedonverse of Firefly, Angel, and Buffy, there are 3 actors who just make me believe. The other two are Nathan Fillion and Alexis Denisov. They can do it all - drama, action, comedy - everything. They can convey a dozen emotions into a one minute piece and make you believe that every single one of those emotions are real. Masters, in particular, does it so well that it's a shame he'll never be recognized for his efforts. Though his character peaked in Season 5 Buffy, he was able to still bring life to Spike in Season 5 Angel as the foil to our Hero. Infact, the best moments of the show involved Spike and Angel relentlessly arguing over the littlest of things... SPIKE It's bollocks, Angel! It's your brand of bollocks from the first to last. ANGEL No, you can't ever see the big picture. You can't see any picture! SPIKE I am talking about something primal. Right? Savagery. Brutal animal instinct. ANGEL And that wins out every time with you. (in Spike's face) You know, the human race has evolved, Spike! (walks away from Spike) SPIKE (follows Angel making mocking gestures) Oh, into a bunch of namby-pamby, self-analyzing wankers who could never hope to— ANGEL We're bigger. We're smarter. Plus, there's a thing called teamwork, not to mention the superstitious terror of your pure aggressors! SPIKE You just want it to be the way you want it to be. ANGEL (yelling) It's not about what I want! WESLEY (walks up to the office door) Sorry. Is this something we should all be discussing? ANGEL (embarrassed to be caught by Wes, backs away from Spike) No. WESLEY It just...sounds a little serious. ANGEL It was mostly...theoretical. We... SPIKE (calmly) We were just working out a b— (passionate again) Look, if cavemen and astronauts got into a fight, who would win? (crosses his arms and looks expectantly at Wes) WESLEY Ah. You've been yelling at each other for 40 minutes about this? (Angel looks down, Spike stares at Wes, still expecting an answer) (looks pensive, crosses his arms) Do the astronauts have weapons? ANGEL & SPIKE (simultaneously) No. I may not have wanted Spike to join the cast of Angel, but I do not regret the decision. With brilliant comedic timing, a knack for the dramatic, and an ability to make it all seem so real, Spike was a PLAYER in Season 5.

#4 - Hamilton Hamilton didn't last long, but he lasted long enough to make an impression. Sure, he was a blatent representation of a television executive, but he did one thing that television execs can't do: punch a hole through a security guards stomach. And with a grand sense of power and deadpan delivery, he punched a hole into our hearts. "I gotta tell ya, I'm a little disappointed." (punches her hard in the face, then in the stomach) "Didn't think a big, scary old one bled this easily." (as she doubles over in pain, he hits her hard in her back, knocking her to the ground) "Maybe it's this skinny, little body you chose to infect." (picks her up and punches her in the face) "Or maybe it's that ray gun they shot you with to keep you from exploding." (punches her in the face again) "Or maybe..." (punches her again) "you're..." (punches her again) "just..." (punches her again) "not...that... " (punches her again) "cool!" (lets her drop to the ground, unconscious and bloody) "Yes, that's probably it." (steps on her face) It was a brutal scene which showed the true strength of Hamilton as well as a certain viciousness. There was a touch of anger there; resentment. It wasn't all business for him, however, for the most part, it was. I loved the simplicity of the character and how Baldwin portrayed it. He didn't do anything special, he just played it straight and stoic. After coming off Jayne, I didn't know how he would approach it, but he did it to perfection. He hit all the right notes and I'm just sad he couldn't get more time.

1. DO NOT QUESTION THE SANCTITY OF THE PLAYERS LIST!!! 2. When Illyria calls Lorne "Lorney Tunes" then she can rise above Harmony. Until then, refer to 1.

#3 - Illyria "Power" was an on-going theme in Angel Season 5. Infact, the whole premise was that Angel -finally- was given enough power to make the world a better place. He was in charge of one of the biggest law firms in the world. He had unlimited resources at his disposal. He had hundreds of employees working under him. He could fly across the world on a whim. He was given the power to really do anything. But what would happen if you lost that power. That is what Illyria represents. She is lost power. She had an army at her disposal. She was feared and loved. She was worshipped by the worshipped. She "..walked worlds of smoke and half-truths, intangible. Worlds of torment, and of unnameable beauty. Opaline towers as high as small moons. Glaciers that rippled with incensing lust. -And one world with nothing but shrimp. I tired of that one quickly." And now she was next to nothing. She had enough power to bend, but not enough to break. She hated her circumstances and was stuck in it. If Season 5 was about power, then it was also about fate, and the power to control your destiny. Illyria controlled her destiny, she arranged to come back after thousands of years so she could rule again, and took the "shell" of Fred to restore her empire. However, there were 2 victims of fate here and it wasn't just Mrs. Burkle who suffered. Illyria was alone in the world and struggled to find meaning. There is no greater theme in Angel, than that. However, it is not just what Illyria represents that makes her a player. She was WONDERFULLY played by Amy Acker. And all I can say is "Who the fuck knew?". I liked Goofy Fred in Season 3, she was isolated and insecure and just so darn cute that I couldn't help but want her to last forever. But she didn't. Fred changed and matured and became more secure, and that's when the fun stopped. Her relationship with Gunn and her involvement in the love triangle and her knack for getting into trouble made her a semi-annoying character. I didn't "hate" her as if she was a "champion" who clearly wasn't and then "ascended" and then "fucked Connor" and then became "evil and sucky", but I certainly didn't relish the time she spent on screen. With Illyria, I did. I loved EVERY second she was on and wish to have seen that sixth season _just_ for that. Amy did not just "play" Illyria, she BECAME Illyria. Her movements changed, her expressions changed, her voice -my god her voice!- changed. And SWEET POTATO PIE did she look good! The dialogue was fantastic... "All I am is what I am. I lived 7 lives at once. I was power and the ecstasy of death. I was god to a god. Now...I--I'm trapped...on a roof. Just one roof....in this time and this place, with an unstable human who drinks too much whiskey and called me a smurf. (Wesley chuckles) You don't worship me at all, do you?" ... the action scenes were spectacular (the one in "Time Bomb" in particular wear she OBLITERATES the crew), and the final scene with Wesley -infact, EVERY scene with Wesley- was an absolute joy. I cannot imagine this show without Illyria, it was an upgrade for sure, and you damn well know she was a PLAYER to the fullest. Great addition. Great work.

#2 - Harmony I don't like being wrong. I don't know anyone who _does_ like being wrong, but I REALLY don't like being wrong. In grade 6, my teacher said "decative" wasn't a word and I went around the school trying to find a teacher who would substantiate my claim. Before this season began, after reading the spoilers and finding out that Harmony was added to the cast, I said I didn't think it was a good idea. I was wrong. And I am so fucking happy I was. The second-longest active character on Angel, Harmony was introduced to us as a member of Cordys chick clique back in Season 1 Buffy. At the end of Season 3 she was biten by a vampire and in Season 5 she returned tagging along side Spike. It was a fantastic relationship, mainly because Spike was peaking in terms of character that season, but it wasn't meant to be. Harmony went over to Angel and tried to kill them and was never seen again. Well, until the start of Season 5 when she showed up and it was magic.... Angel: *You're* my secretary!? Harmony: Er Hellooo! Assistant! Angel: Explain why I shouldn't kill you? Harmony: Secretary is fine. Harmony added not only a killer figure which was well complemented in office attire, but a sense of light-heartedness that the show needed after the very dark Season 4. I think the end of "Conviction" said it all, as the self-sacrificing vampire Spike made his return... Wesley: Spike? Angel: Spike!? Harmony: Blondie Bear? But I believe the moment that enamoured me most with the perky vampire was in "Life of the Party" when she danced alone in the middle of the room. I have no idea why I like that scene in particular, perhaps something about living in your own world and not giving a damn about anyone else -a sort of individuality and carefree-edness that just really clicks- but I love it and it really brought her above her role. She was so good, infact, that she was featured in her own episode "Harms way" which provided us a closer look at the everyday life of a secret-er-assitant. Not a "great" episode by any means, it still provided a bunch of laughs and promoted a truly interesting character and dynamic that separates Angel from its more-popular and long-lasting counterpart. In the end, however, it turned out that the snake was always that and it turned on the crew. I can't really complain, cause, well, she looked DAMN FINE in that blue bra... and the end scene where she asked for a recommendation and Angel had it for her was just perfect. Harmony is the #2 PLAYER in Angel Season 5.

THE (FUCKING MOTHERFUCKING FUCKING...yada...) PLAYERS LIST! Yes, as hyped for weeks and weeks and months and weeks, THE PLAYERS LIST finally makes its way to TOAOAS5T~! Who will be the #1 Player!? Who will make the cut? Who will be KING PLAYER MAXIMUM X??! Read on... #1 - Wesley Season 4 marked the stunning debut of BADASS WES - a character which rose above the rest in impressive fashion, melding together doublegun action, extendo-weapon fun, and fucking-Lilah-dressed-as-Fred-telling-her-to-leave-the-glasses-on goodness, in one singular persona. Indeed, this was a character change well-welcomed by the masses as Wesleys growth throughout the seasons, from Nerdish Watcher to mock-Rogue Demon Hunter to Bitter Soul, was finally complete. However, Season 5 added a depth to his character -a deep pain- that was able to not only impress the audience, but touch their hearts as well. As Season 5 began, it appeared Wesley was reverting back into the nerdish bookworm that once was. However -as foreshadowed in "Lineage"- his character was only being set-up for impending doom (and gloom. Lots and lots of gloom). In "Smile Time", a love which began in Season 3 and faltered throughout, was finally realized as Fred gave Wesley the kiss he long waited for. It was not to last, however, as in the very next show, Fred died in his arms wondering why she couldn't stay. This emotionally-charged episode featured many sides of Wes; the joker ("Would the Astronauts have weapons"?), the lover ("Are you trying to turn me on?"), the dedicated ("I have loved you since the moment I met you"), the broken... Since Freds death -which was, invariably, his own- Wesley was changed, and it was for the better. It was in this state which he delivered his best performances and played many layers. Alexis Denisov proved that he is not only a "damn good actor", he proved that he was on a level few are on. Because of this, he is the #1 Player. Illyria: Would you like me to lie to you now? Wesley: Yes. Thank you, yes. *Illyria changes to Fred* Hello there. Fred: Wesley. My Wesley. Wesley: Fred. I miss you. They kiss Fred: It's gonna be okay. It won't hurt much longer. And then you'll be where I am. We'll be together. Wesley: I--I love you. Both are crying Fred: I love you. My love. Oh, my love...

GODDAMMIT BLACKFLAGG! GOD FUCKING DAMMIT! GOD FUCKING DAMN YOU!! First you take the quote that I want for my sig and then YOU TAKE THE PICTURE!!!!!! MORTAL ENEMY!

NOT FADE AWAY!!! ... I think a bronze medal game would probably go over better I just like the concept of WHEDONDOME! 2 EPISODES ENTER! 1 EPISODE LEAVES!

HOLY SHIT! You just made me FREAK OUT Superstar!! Seriously, I was fucking on the edge of hyperventilating. 1 billion points to Superstar!

Gauntlet!!!! WHEDONDOME! 2 EPISODES ENTER! 1 EPISODE LEAVES!

The Czech is Bech~!

Here's something some people are forgetting... A WWE HOUSE SHOW IS NOT A FUCKING MOVIE!

http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?...3&hl=cena+claus

Why would you bash the people you like? ???

"Andre: Ah am ze ghost of wrestling Christmas passssssst. Ho-gawnnnnnn!" I swear Czech, that was the funniest shit I read today. Ok, it's not from this thread, but that and Taker as the no-selling ghost of christmas future and Tiny Tazz, the real thing you should be bumping is Downhomes "Is Kayfabe dead".

I never liked the Angel/Cordy storyline. It was horridable.

It pains me to see Summer Glau in a non-River role. Plus the Angel/Cordy stuff doesn't lead to anything good. Other than that, it was a really good episode. Unfortunately, "that" takes up a good deal of it.

I finished watching "Not Fade Away". This is just wrong. WRONG. To put two episodes like this against each other. I dare say they compete among the high ranking episodes of my beloved Firefly. "A Hole in the World" was 100% pure awesome. All the way. Every single moment was stunning. In that regard, it beats "Not Fade Away". Right up until the scene with Illyria and Wes, I would probably have said that A Hole in the World was the deserving episode. And in someways, I still do. But that scene... I am still kinda reeling from it. It hit me when she said "Do you want me to lie to you" and then it finished me off with "I missed you" - the rest wasn't needed -the "we'll be together" stuff, the morphing and the head punching, etc.- but good lord was it all wanted and taken. As good as the Wes/Fred scenes were in HITW -and they were awesome- this touched me a little bit more to the point of my heart sinking and my eyes watering... it probably even effected me more than the first time I saw it. NFA walked a tight rope; in lesser hands it would have failed and all the content they were trying to cram in would have scattered rather than fallen into place. Where a HITW gave you plenty of time to absorb the emotion and story, this was almost rushed. Yet, it wasn't. It was amazingly balanced. And after it was over I was still left a little bit breathless. After a Hole in the World, I was left with awe, but it still didn't hit the really high notes NFA did, even if it was a little more consistent. Vote: Not Fade Away (like it matters... I'm just happy I watched it again)

As for adaptability, Noguiera barely got a win over Cro Cop. He got lucky when Cro Cop exposed himself with the buck. He didn't do much in his triangle. You've got to be kidding me? Noguiera was not lucky, he _made_ Cro Cop expose himself. I don't know how you can "barely" get a win when you sub a guy and make him cry, but this really isn't about that. Cro Cop threw everything he had at Nog and Nog still won. Do you think Fedor could survive that punishment? I mean, I think Fedor would beat Cro Cop personally, but if he was put in that position - do you think he'd be as successful as Nog? If anything, I would say that Fyodor is more versatile, since he has better standup, is a better wrestler, and has a better ground game from the top, as shown by his wicked GnP. I wouldn't say he has better stand up. Nog throws more combinations and works the jabs better. He throws knees and leg kicks more often. I love the fact that Fedor has trained with Golden Glory and hope to see this area improve, but I don't think he has really shown "better" standup just because he put down Goodridge and Nagata. Powerful punches are one thing, but Nog has shown better _skills_ standing. "Ground game from the top" is too general. Fedor has better "in the guard" work, and also for sidemount and back control, but in terms of mount position, Nog is better. They have two different strategies and neither are better or worse - Nog works to get the mount while Fedor doesn't have an exact gameplan; he just likes smashing . Each man -when put in any of these positions- will do well. Nog has a better guard. In terms of "wrestling" (takedowns?), I wouldn't say that Fedor is "better" here either. They, again, are different. If Nog wants the fight to be on the ground, it will inevitably end up on the ground. The fight with Cro Cop was a testiment to this. Fedor can do this too, but his style doesn't necessarily compensate for when he can't take them down. I LOVE the fact that he was able to armbar Coleman, but I'd love to see him on the ground again to fully get the depth of his guard skills. Nog has proven that he can come back from a beating. He hasn't proven that he can come back from a Fyodor beating. This is rather silly. He proven that he can comeback from a Cro Cop beating. He took kicks that broke ribs, he took punches that broke orbital bones. As much as I loved Fedors GnP display, Cro Cops beating was worse. Do you think Fedor could come back from that? You are putting too much emphasis on "Fedor beat Nog" - it seems like you're resting your entire argument on that point. It's not about Fedor vs. Nog, it's about Nog vs. Everyone else, Fedor vs. Everyone else, and how each would fair. Overall, Nog would fair better. If you want to bring up the Fujita fight, fine. I'd say that Noguiera wouldn't have been able to take him down, and he doesn't have nearly the same agression that Fyodor has in his standup to dominate a fight standing. He would not have delivered the liver kick that set up the choke obviously. If anything, it's a BAD styles matchup for him. He got Coleman on the ground. Fujita is not a Coleman level grappler. With Nog, it's inevitable. Here's how the fight would go: Nog "tests out the waters" with jabs and low kicks, Fujita fakes some shoot attempts and does nothing but back away from Nog, Nog tries for a take down, Fujita avoids... repeat until Nog finally takes Fujita down or pulls him into his guard. Look at the fights they've had against the same people. Goodridge, Herring, Schilt, Coleman. The only fight where Nog looked more impressive was Schilt. You understate his performance vs. Gary. "Quicker Result" does not necessarily = "better result". I know Gary took the fight on short notice, but Noguieras ground work in this fight was masterful. He dominated on the ground much in the same way Fedor dominated standing. However, Fedor had a bit of an advantage in knowing that Gary just liked to block shots and weather the storm rather than fight back. Each had his own strategy, and each executed it perfectly. I personally think Noguieras strategy showed more skill. The Herring fight, yes, Fedor made his name here. Great work, Herring didn't know what hit him. Coleman is a tricky situation; again, I love the fact that Fedor tapped him superbly - but I think it was a 50/50 effort here. 50% of it goes to Fedors masterful armbar, the other 50% goes to Coleman being clueless and underestimating Fedors ground work. That card has been played, it won't work the same way against Randleman.

You are missing the point Paragon. It doesn't matter "who wins more convincingly", it's about "who will win _more_." Nog is more of a sure-bet than Fedor, in every match. Vs. Randleman? Nog. Easy - doesn't matter how he does it, decision or submission, he'll get it. Fedor? Not so easy. Randleman will be more cautious and won't make the same mistake Coleman did. There is a ??? there. There is some doubt. I personally want Fedor to take it all, but I still have doubt. Kharitonov? Vs. Nog - Does he have the stand-up skills of Cro Cop? I doubt it. Nog weathered a more severe storm than that, and sub'd better grapplers (Hendo). Fedor? I'd love to see it, but again, it's another question mark. These two fights, the difference between Fedor and Nog here is, the difference between "if" and "when".

One thing at a time... About "Sakuraba/Rampage": How did I know that one tiny analogy would have been given so much attention? YPOV was working from the "Fedor beat Nog, so until Nog can beat Fedor...Fedor is the favourite." premise. That's it. Any surrounding factors are meaningless - Sakuraba beat Jackson, yet Jackson was a bigger favourite (if not THE favourite) to win the MW GP. Yes, Jackson was a younger fighter then; but then again, Sakuraba wasn't exactly 100% healthy. I could say that Noguiera had to do a lot of interviews and promotional stuff the day of his fight with Fedor and had to get some sleep in his car - which is true. But none of this matters because YPOV was working from a strictly W/L premise. My justification had very little to do with Wins and Losses - because W/L's don't always define who has a better chance at winning - it had to do with styles and the fighter himself. About "Fedor/Fyodor": His official websites domain name has his name spelled "Fedor" fedor.bel.ru If anything, his last name should be changed. Do a search for Fedor Emelianenko Fedor Emelyanenko Fyodor Emelyanenko Hell, you don't have to. The first try well spell check you with the second one and give you the link to his site. The third one? Nothing. ...now that the meaningless things are out of the way...

The WWE does make an effort to learn the local taboos - and then tries to play them up. Which is why you get Trish making a "frog" reference when in Montreal.