Boon

He isnt a heel here tho. The way they designed the program in the wwe.com article, they paint Shawn as a face. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't see him as a face. The marks will probably be even more confused by this. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I do. Shawn made it clear "I put my body on the line for my love of this business...Hogan did it for a tv show. I broke my body for you...Hogan did this (cups ears)". Quite frankly, Hogan is the heel here. Fuck what some of the marks think <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But they're the ones who determine who is heel and who is face (Hardy/Edge/Lita situation aside--the smarks decided that). He didn't get enough of a positive reaction to be the face--he had jeers mixed with cheers. We'll see who the heel really is in the weeks before SummerSlam or at SummerSlam itself. Everything else is just idle speculation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I told you guys- tweeners.

64. He still owes half of the Raw roster a job.

56. Smarks have gone to great creative lengths to come up with enough reasons to keep Hassan, with hilarious results.

46. People are so eager to see him on Smackdown, they'll repeat reasons on a list of 101 that he should not be murdered.

34. We'll never get to see the Magic Carpet Ride.

This was the exact same thing my friends told me after my girlfriend and I broke up.

i_r_teh_h4x

20. Less Hassan = Less Daivari

[praying for a Brock Lesnar run-in, anytime throughout the show]

Hahahaha.

Now that you mention it, I do remember WWE having to drown out the crowd reaction for RVD. So much for letting the fans express their opinions, eh? <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've been away most of the afternoon, so I've got some catching up to do. I wouldn't call that a good match, but decent enough. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, he's had one good match with dead weight that used to be able to go, and that match was four years ago. I still hold faith that UT can still go when he wants to. I'll give him half a point for that. Why people argue that RVD shouldn't get pushed and Shelton should is beyond me. Shelton was given a chance at Backlash against Jericho and he brought nothing to the table except his fancy offensive moveset. Can he sell? Can he cut an great promo (not funny one-liners)? Does he grasp the concept of psychology and having a story-driven match? So far, all signs point to no. If he learns all of this while in the midcard then maybe he'll be ready for a main event push in a year or so but right now is too early. These two guys essantially have the same flaws and same strenghts yet one sucks and one is praised. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If the two guys have the same flaws and strengths [which I don't believe], but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Shelton deserves a push b/c he's gotten to the level in his career of RVD in 1/4 of the time that it took RVD. That's only your opinion, though. Most people seemed to like it. Don't their opinions matter? I'm never gotten the whole "RVD can't talk" argument. It just seems like another unjust criticism of the guy that he pretty much proved wrong at ONS. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Which is your opinion. I agree with King and Mike- his promo sounded whiny, and it is really overrated. Like I said, it was given to the right group of ECW marks, who would've loved it if RVD had just come out and talked about his day. I'd say a lot of people think he has what it takes in the PRESENT as well (especially after ONS). He impressed many people with his promo and the fans reacted to him very well when he showed up on Raw. No one really needs to talk about RVD's past when his present situation is pretty damn good. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Like I said- preaching to the right group of marks at ONS, and debuting on a new show. Anyone would've gotten a pop on Raw. It's not complicated, it's just useless. RVD has had years to prove himself as a viable World Champion contender, and he has failed. Miserably. Why should they invest another 6-7 months in him? It might be because Shelton has the whole "amateur" background. While Shelton is MUCH better at pure wrestling, I don't think he's nearly as exciting as RVD in the ring. That's quite an important factor. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I still don't see how people consider RVD exciting. He puts on the most predictable, apathetic, boring matches I've seen in a long time. And Shelton has shown that he is way more then just a great amateur. Watch his Gold Rush tournament match with HBK again. Shelton is not only a great amateur, he's a great spot man, and has amazing athleticism, balance, etc. That could apply to Robbie as much as Shelton right now and RVD has at least 6 years experience on him. RVD was given mic-time at ONS. More than Benjamin's ever had. And it was horrible. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thank you!! That was the point. Many want WWE not to push RVD because he sucks, yet push Benjamin to the main events because he's great. Both are great athletes. Both are great bumpers. Both are great at spots. They're both horrible in ways already mentioned, but RVD at least has a little bit of character and more in-ring charisma. If Shelton was ever given the chance to show some character, I think you'd be impressed. The very short amount of time he had with Jericho, he showed more depth then RVD ever has. And RVD's promo was awful? Not really. He's better than a lot of the usualy RAW promo guys. At least better than Edge, Lita, Matt Hardy, Kane, Snitsky, and Chris Masters (I'd also add Carlito, but that discussion is already in another thread). The one promo other then "cool" or "whatever" he did was not good. I'm sorry, but that ONS "shoot" was just lame. BTW- Edge showed he can cut a good promo still, and his old stuff is solid gold. You're right about the rest of them, though. UGH. Shelton could be the best pure wrestler in the world, but it doesn't matter if he doesn't show it. That doesn't even make sense... Have you not watched one of his matches? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry that's so long, but I wanted to make sure I addressed everything that was said.

Given the proper feud and booking, Shelton could easily become a top face. Look at the mini-HHH feud he had. He was just about there. Jericho v. RVD argument- in high profile, memorable matches, Jericho has the edge over RVD. Let's just look at title matches, (tag, world, IC, etc.) According to wwe.com title history, in title history: RVD has beaten: Eddie, Benoit, Jericho, and Angle, each once. Jericho has beaten: The Rock (3x), Kurt Angle (1x), SCSA (3x), HHH (1x), Benoit (3x), RVD (2x) Jericho's credibility > RVD's credibility

He's cut some entertaining promos. His mic work is passable and he at least says something when he speaks. He has charisma, and despite my own personal beliefs, he is one of the most entertaining guys on the roster. He connects with the crowd and gets reactions at nearly everything he does. That's entertainment. You're making my point. Cena and Orton bring in a new fanbase, and therefore more money. RVD's fanbase is already hooked on the product, they're nothing new. Other then the fact that his personality has changed since he's been with the company. Yes, Cena has a limited move set right now, but he moves more merch then RVD and he has gotten more over in a shorter period of time then RVD. In four years if Cena is the same character, then I will say the same thing about him that I am about RVD, with the exception that Cena was WAY more over then RVD in his first two years. Jericho holds victories over established stars (Rock, Austin, Angle, Benoit, etc.) While Jericho's title reign may have sucked, he's beaten more top guys then RVD, and fans can see Jericho in the main event easier then they can see RVD. Getting pushed does not equate to popularity. see also Hassan, nearly every Hoss on Smackdown, Chris Masters. He got a pop at ONS b/c the fans were fucking ECW marks. He got a pop at the Cabana b/c he was debuting on a new show- The Big Show got a great pop too, you know. As soon as he comes back to regular action, it will become obvious that he is still stale as fuck. Maybe he's just angry b/c his pot is all gone. What Mike said.

If Heidenreich/Animal win, I might kill somebody.

Despite Cena's lack of ring talent, he's arguable the most over man on either show, makes shitloads of money and is at least sometimes entertaining. Hell, Orton was getting over with all the cute teenie-bopper crowds, too. I agree he didn't deserve the title so soon. The difference between Cena/Orton and RVD is partially the fan base. RVD appeals to ECW people and "hardcore" fans, who are already into the company and also don't fork over a lot of money. The fanbases for Cena/RVD make Vince money, and therefore they will get pushed. As far as his credibility goes, RVD is not known for winning big matches and has never held the WWE/World Title. Jericho at least has the Undisputed Title. This is not to say that Jericho is entirely credible, but RVD is certainly not more credible in the main event scene. Get over it, folks. RVD will never be a main-event draw. He is stale, his moveset is weak and he will never expand his horizons, change his character or increase his draw. He is an upper-midcard in the WWE at best- get used to it.

RVD was more over in 2001 then Cena is now?! You've got to be fucking kidding me. That's just retarded.

Have you seen Jim Rome is burning? PTI? Around the Horn? Hell, even Sportscenter. Those shows offend me as a sports fan. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> S-------T-------R-------E-------T-------C-------H <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Y2Jerk- Always one with the witty banter, even at the expense of missing the joke.

If it was, I missed it. But as they were doing the rundown of the matches, Cole mentioned that the challenge was laid out at WWE.com.

Bravo.

Yeah. I'm sure they'll be pleased to see Jon Garland... oh wait.

An error by Crede, and Manny makes the White Sox pay, big time. Great game in Chicago, so far.

OMG!! Rey on Smackdown had a black mask!! Terrorist!!

Have you seen Jim Rome is burning? PTI? Around the Horn? Hell, even Sportscenter. Those shows offend me as a sports fan.

Sunday Night Heat has a title. They're called the Tag-Team Titles.