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When a guy is pushed for two years and the majority of fans still wonder why, that guy is not an A+ star. I guess the only guys who fit that bill since the days of Austin/Rock/Foley ending, were the ones that got the push they deserved because the fans demanded them, so I'd say that would be Eddie during his push to the title, Benoit up until he inexplicably dropped the title to Orton without it even being built to. I guess you could lump in Cena and Batista at the time they pulled the triggers on those as well although I'd say both have cooled considerably since they were moved in the draft. Even if I don't necessarily like him, HHH is portrayed at that level, Angle is when he's not playing GM, a heel HBK would be, and their only chance to really add someone to that list right now would never happen since Brock's not coming back. These guys all have solidified characters, and are either very good at wrestling or give good promos, or one half of the equation is so outstanding it makes up for the other. They dropped the ball on Jericho who easily outshines guys like Orton aside from the fact he has enemies in bad places and isn't as tall. Benjamin could be with a manager, or a meaningful character. I hope that explains what I'm getting at, although I could go into more detail if need be.

HHH is also likely to beat Cena in the WWE Title match, and obviously Orton winning the Rumble means that heels will be dominating the early year PPV scene which is never good for business. I don't consider NYR or NWO to be events worth discussing. I hate Orton because he's no better or worse than Billy Gunn was yet Vince was never dumb enough to make Billy the World Champ or push him for almost two years straight with no return on his investment. In simpler terms, I want an "A+" star to get that sustained championship level push treatment, not a barely passing "C/C-" type guy which is what I see Orton as. Orton is an average wrestler, below average on the mic and has one facial mannerism, one taunt and is basically a one trick pony. What exactly is there for me to like about him if he never gets his ass well and truly kicked which is the supposed pay off for a cocky prick heel who constantly cheats to win?

Well your question wasn't directed at me, but I'll take a hand at answering it: they don't. At least not yet anyway. TNA has lost tons of money and was only sustained by a financial backer willing to absorb the losses with the hopes of turning the tide. I don't know what they're looking like now, but all signs are now pointing to them significantly reducing there budget. They went from running shows every week to every other week (they were doing 4 at a time at one point), for the first time in there history they aren't paying to be broadcasted (they were paying FSN something like $300,000 per episode) and they finally are getting their merchandise into stores. That extra $30K a week, along with whatever the DVDs are bringing in (and I have read that they are doing well) should bring them closer to the break even point. What would put them on the other side of it is expanding their PPV audience, which was around 25,000 I believe during the FSN era, and eventually adding a live gate. Hope that helped. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks. I knew they weren't turning a profit, but I was just curious as to where their revenue streams were coming from. I hope they succeed, it just seems like their plan for the time being is not to lose as much money as before on a monthly basis, but at some point they need to get in the black figures.

That you haven't heard anything about BFG yet should tell you about the buy rate for that one. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How exactly does TNA make money? It doesn't seem like they sell a lot of PPVs, they don't get much if anything in the way of live ticket revenue and I'm guessing the same applies to their TV dealings as well. They can't be making all that much on merchandise, so I'm kind of curious and you seem like the guy to ask.

It just amazes me that people with the motor skills to watch TV, use a computer and type can actually find shit like that entertaining. I weep for humanity.

Why is SD only an hour then? I don't get it.

Unlike Shane, Steph actually has a character, and I don't have to worry about seeing her put over Cena for the WWE title, or Big Show and Kane at the same time, just because. I don't mind her slapping refs, Lilian or ringside staff because that's actually amusing. The ONLY thing Shane's done that I marked out for was nearly die in his match against Angle. If he's willing to fall on his head every week on RAW, I'm all for the move, otherwise they should keep him off of my TV because he fucking sucks.

This doesn't look that bad, unless they also plan to do Booker/Benoit match # 3 to be shown on Friday. I think that would be just a bit too much for me. Considering I'm losing interest in RAW by the week, I'm hoping SD picks up the slack.

Wrestler of the Year: Eddie Guerrero, the main reason to watch SD Feud of the Year: Batista vs HHH Best Brawler: Batista Best High Flier: I guess Rey, although I think this category is not really competitive. Best Tag Team: MNM, easiest choice in the bunch Most Underrated: Edge Most Overrated: HBK Best Promos: Eddie Guerrero Best PPV: Royal Rumble thanks to the Christian "Tomko gimme a beat!" promo, Orton and HBK both losing and Vinnie Mac blowing out both of his quads in the funniest serious moment ever. Worst PPV: Unforgiven, Show vs Snitsky, Benjamin vs K-White, a divas tag match, Michaels vs Masters and Angle beating Cena via DQ in a PPV Main Event guaranteed this got my vote. and stolen from the WON... Most disgusting promotional tactic: JR gets fired. The whole thing from Linda's shitty heel turn to Vinnie Mac digging in an ass just shouldn't have happened. Assuming you forgot MOTY, I'll go with the MITB match at WM XXI. Shelton's stairway to heaven spot was amongst the best things on WWE TV all year, and the match was about as exciting a spotfest as they are capable of producing now.

Put him under a mask and team him up with another hopeless loser Rosey, as the new Curry Mandy Orton. Just wanted to get that in before this gets closed.

I added the two words you missed, but it's pretty much right on the money, though you need to add some HHH level pauses in between sentences and the syllables in his last name.

Is Vince trying to kill Chicago off by giving them Orton and HHH coming out with the gold at WM? Not only are they giving a heel the Rumble victory, but they're going to follow it up with two heels coming out of the biggest show of the year with the gold. That's not bad booking, that's "Fingerpoke of Doom" level stupidity.

Cena interference leads to Maria beating Kurt and Bischoff getting fired if WWE tries to get too cute for its own good again.

That would be my preference. Melina's the first interesting diva they've had since Psycho Victoria, so I'm glad to see her doing well.

Let's see, the Invasion was something we never thought we'd see. RAW vs SD has been happening on every show for the last couple of weeks, and with rare exception doesn't offer anything we haven't seen before. The main drawing card was Eddie vs HBK, but obviously that's not happening, so what's your point exactly?

Maybe so, but the Diamond Cutter made it look like the guy's face always hit the mat at high speed. Orton's RKO clearly has him take a bigger bump than his opponent does since he basically jumps in the air and lands flat on his back while the guy taking the move just falls forward. He's never hit one on a man that looked deadly because of the way he does it, which pretty much makes the move look ineffective in my book.

I couldn't agree more. A chair shot used to mean a guy was going to be stretchered out. Now it's basially a transition move. I really don't think they can flip a switch and all of a sudden stop blading or doing big bumps. But they can start it as a long, gradual process, with this match having less blood or a less-staggering high spots than previous HIACs, and then the next one having less than this one, etc etc. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't disagree with your point in a standard match. The problem comes with ramping up the importance of a contest when you start adding in stips that are theoretically imposed to get over how much two opponents hate one another. If you tried to do a HIAC now without a major bump, or lots of blood, the fanbase would reject it in a major way especially when Flair and HHH nearly died in a regular cage match not too long ago. Can you gradually wean them down to expecting less? Perhaps. Should you make the HIAC the example where you start that? Absolutely not. I don't think anyone takes the Elimination Chamber seriously, so HIAC is rightly or wrongly viewed as a last resort, and if you diminish it by not including any of the "extras", what separates it from a 3 minute match on RAW?

So because Cena bled heavily one time, that negates the issue that he rarely ever bleeds? I'm not a fan of big bladejobs, but when you're a brawler and involved in "brutal" matches, blood is kind of a necessary evil. I understand that some wrestlers don't ever go that route, but most of them are either built as indestructible or great technicians. Cena and Orton don't fit either description and that's why they stand out as not really fitting in when they don't end up with crimson masks regularly. And Orton took one bump on thumbtacks, can we stop comparing him to ECW Sabu or even modern day Jeff Hardy? To the last dude who quoted me, if there's no blood or bumps in a HIAC match, I think you can safely throw the match away for good since it's supposed to be a "life changing, career ending/threatening match". Again, I'm just talking about in terms of the way those matches have gone. You can't suddenly neuter the "deadliest" match in the WWE and expect people to pay for it.

I'll admit I was wrong. I just don't see a pretty boy going the extra mile to do that since it would end up ruining his look. Cena's sort of in the same boat in that his matches aren't as visceral as we've gotten used to from champions since he never really blades or takes huge bumps either. Batista can get away with it since he's a hoss and unless he's wrestling Big Show there's really no one big enough to toss him around.

The big bumps I'm talking about require a HHH or Flair style bladejob. We know that the Undertaker should be getting the majority of the offense, and I just don't see Randy willing to do what it takes to sell the beating property (cut up his "pretty" face). He's definitely not taking a monstrous "holy shit" bump, so he'll have to bleed buckets to put over the match and Undertaker's wrath. I just don't see that happening, and that's why I think the decision to do this match is stupid.

As usual, a personal attack is the only way an Orton supporter can handle the fact that not everyone is entertained by the person they have a mancrush on. It's cool though since I won't bother seeing any of your posts again. God bless the ignore button.

I wasn't aware that this forum was the sole source of deciding what's a good match, and which wrestler is worthy of praise. My mistake. The only good thing about Orton/Taker at WM was watching Undertaker throw Randy under the bus even though everything about the storyline necessitated an Orton victory.

Orton and Taker have never had a great match together. Orton won't bump/blade enough to make this particular match work. HIAC is about as played out as Ultimate X in terms of how often it's used. The only feud this year that was bitter and personal enough to warrant a HIAC stip was Eddie/Rey, so naturally they just got a shitty cage match.

Aside from the novelty of an overexposed gimmick match, what's the point of Orton/Taker headlining a PPV in HIAC? This is just a throwaway show scrambling for a few buys by promising Orton's comeuppance when Orton likely won't bleed enough to sell the beating he should end up taking, and will probably end up cheating to win what should be the blowoff to the lamest longterm feud in ages. 200,000 buys should be considered a monumental success since SD has no undercard to speak of to appeal to anyone besides Orton & Taker marks with $35 to spend about a month before one of the few good PPVs on the WWE calendar.

You misunderstood my argument. No one wants to SEE Orton/Taker in HIAC, and since that's what they're going with it's the worst match they could possibly promote. Barring them putting Orton over Batista sometime between next week and the PPV (which begs the question why they didn't do it today if that's the plan), they won't have their top title defended on a single brand PPV in the Main Event, and will end up giving you a match that they've shown on TV at least 3-5 times already this year. Lashley/JBL would suck copious amounts of cock as well, but at least it would be new, and Lashley might injure JBL by mistake since he's so green.