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Choklahoma St. showed up tonight. So when OU beats them by 30+ I guess we'll officially be able to squash any debates until they get hammered in the BCS title game again.

If Plax goes to jail, I'm hoping the Giants can recoup some of the money they threw his way and try to sign Whosyourmama in the offseason. Just as talented as Plax, but far less drama.

Where are the Islanders that won 4 straight cups in this discussion?

No, I'm saying that for a while Tiki, Shockey and Strahan were easily the three biggest talents/names on the team. They're all gone now and the team is playing better, which just doesn't make sense especially when you factor in that Osi didn't play a meaningful snap this season either. I would say that it's mostly smoke and mirrors but it's hard to do that when they lead the league in scoring and rushing and are # 5 on defense in both points and yards while playing the toughest schedule in the league.

Tiki's problem was he wanted to be the team leader but he never took responsibility for stirring up shit. He never got Shockey or Plax to fall in line either. Announcing his retirement less than halfway through the season meant he lost whatever pull he had in the locker room, and that's when management basically made him look like a whining ass by getting him less touches. He essentially handled everything about his last couple of seasons wrong off of the field. The Eli comments really came back to bite him because he won the championship without Tiki and Shockey, who were easily his two biggest detractors. The fact that this year's team is even better without those two AND Strahan still boggles my mind. I guess not having clubhouse cancers can be a great thing even if the guys who replace them are not nearly as talented on an individual basis.

On top of making his final season all about him, he also called out the coach, his teammates, the media, whined about his lack of touches etc. If you were a fan of the Giants you know why people called him Tik-me Barber towards the end of his tenure with the team. Winning the SB the year after he left was that much sweeter.

I think the Giants need to cut him at the end of the season. He's becoming a Tiki/Shockey level distraction and he's not producing this year so I think it's time to pull the plug on the experiment.

If you have the choice of being paid equally and being a champion in Cleveland or NY, I think at least 90% of athletes would choose to win in NY because of the relentless media exposure. Now, if you're going to be a middle of the road team and paid the same you'll choose Cleveland because of the lack of relentless media exposure. There's a reason Kobe always wanted to play for the Lakers and it had nothing to do with "tradition". Bringing a title to the Cavs gets him on the same level as a guy like Wade. Bringing a title to the Knicks for the first time in about 40 years ensures that everyone who wasn't sick of the Jordan comparisons will be. We're talking Michael Phelps in Beijing level slurping for the rest of his career.

The fact that Cleveland is a pimple on the ass of NY in terms of marketing and advertising possibilities. LeBron leading the Knicks to a title after a decade of futility makes him a legend because the media will make it happen. Doing the same thing in Cleveland makes him a hero in the state of Ohio. The Knicks aren't as relevant as they once were, but I think that's what makes playing for them and succeeding there more intriguing to someone with an ego as large as his.

If Tynes kicks either of those two shanks through the uprights Favre never throws the pick and probably doesn't end up playing for the Jets. I don't know if we did you guys a favor or not by making him cry, retire and then decide he wanted to play for the Vikings or Bears before settling on the Jets.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Not really. The Giants winning the championship WAS lucky. The Tyree catch happens maybe one in a thousand times at best. It's like Scott Norwood and wide right, only more spectacular because it ended the perfect season. Objectively speaking, to pay back teams that beat you four times by 46 points in the regular season by a total of 10 points is the definition of a lucky run. The only game I would have been pissed off about losing, and probably would have called a fluke loss was the Packers game since Tynes missed 2 kicks in the 4th Quarter that would have sealed it before OT.

The Cowboys were a 7-9 point favorite in Vegas for the game. The majority of the national media were talking up Romo as though he was destined to go to the first of many Super Bowls last year. Every team that played the Giants in last season's playoffs were heavy favorites except for maybe the Bucs, but even then they were still expected to win. The Giants played the "no respect card" heavily for the last 6 weeks of the season because they actually weren't getting any.

Losing to the eventual champion doesn't excuse the fact that a team choked under pressure when they're expected to win rather easily at home. It might not make them look quite as bad as if they lost to a team that then gets annihilated in the next round, but a choke is still a choke.

Dallas lost at home to the Giants after securing the # 1 seed, and beating us by double digits TWICE. The Pats lost on a neutral site thanks in large part to a miraculous play. I think more people gave the Giants a chance to beat the undefeated Pats in the SB based on where they were as a team at that time, than they did to beat the Romos in Little D with their 13 Pro Bowlers and all.

I'll one up you and say that the 2008 Lions ARE the worst NFL team I've ever seen.

Nice defense by the Packers tonight.

The Chargers have probably had the most excrutiating season I've ever seen and there's still 5 weeks to go.

I think the majority of the teams this season were horrible. Between their inability to read the clues and general lack of common sense, I'm amazed some of these people can dress themselves. The preview for next week let's us know that the monumental error will take place and what it is. I almost can't fathom how something like that could happen, but given the teams this season it almost seems appropriate.

Chris Bosh is a talented player, but he's not a big enough name to make up for 9 seasons of horrible teams. They basically need Wade or LeBron to bring back the fans who are nauseated by the results of Layden & Thomas. The Garden hasn't been meaningful since 2000, and that's a shame.

Defensive backs play on that side of the ball for a reason. It's laughable how many times a DB blows a gimme interception or a play like the one you mentioned at the pro level.

I agree with you, but the fanbase has essentially been led to believe it's LeBron or bust, and if they don't end up with him there will be a lot of bitter people who will have sat through a decade of horrible teams for nothing. It's somewhat like when the Celts put all of their eggs in the Duncan basket, only we didn't have 16 banners hanging from the rafters. I've been an advocate of blowing up this team for years, but the Dolans seemed to think the fans would disappear if we were one of the worst teams in the league for a couple of years. Apparently they never envisioned this scenario where we've been terrible and/or cap strapped for 9 years in a row by the time 2010 rolls around.

Six of one, a half dozen of the other. Eli forgetting to take off his pads before putting on the champions t-shirt is the reason I've kept it up this long.

Without Plax and Jacobs the Giants have still rolled up 31 on Arizona.

Yes. It's going to be OU and Alabama/Florida for the title unless OU chokes.