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I really dont know the extent of the argument b/w Heyman and Vince but it had to extend beyond the title scene. I was normally used to the old ecw around the late 1990s where they could take midcard or lower talent from wwf and use them correctly in ecw. and when they were really catching on they would be taken back and again they would not know what to do with them and they'd start losing almost immediately. In that sense ecw was like a developmental league, which is the same problem they have now with ovw, nobody seems to watch that show so they give guys bad gimmicks or the opposite gimmicks of the ones that worked. It was like a running joke Paul would take someone Vince didnt care about like Al Snow and get him over to the point of having to headline 2 ppvs because of his popularity, coming back with some of the gimmick intact, and then I cant remember him ever winning. I think his first match back involved HEAD getting pinned with a shampoo bottle. Yes 2000 was not a perfect year for wwf despite what we want to remember. Heyman even took stiffs like Sid Vicious and Brakkus (who?) and gave them something to do. The problem, up to his dismissal, was as people posted above, no one was getting over AT ALL, both new talent or reused old midcarders. I'd put more blame on Vince and some on Heyman, due to the fact that the roster was so small there were only so many jobbers to be squashed. I dont know what the benefit was to have the FBI under contract just to be squashed on tv, when they would set aside network time to have REAL JOBBERS to put over the winning streak of VITO for godsakes. Aside from Punk, there were taller stiffs like Thorn and Knox getting used, but I think that was a compromise that, even if they didnt work, they were tall so might have a better chance than the usual great workers that Heyman would normally push. (Remember that article where Heyman said he'd like to bring in Dragon Gate guys? There's your nail in the coffin right there) I think Vince is really sick of wrestling in general, and he's just treading water, with his illusion of having 3 shows and 30 ppvs a year, when there is less variety than you'd think was possible right now. Just look at the current 3 champs.

I didnt think it was POSSIBLE to hear the word hickenbottom 9000 times in a 30 second period. And I have no idea why I kept it on tv for that long as I tried to change it as soon as my brain registered that they were wearing ponchos. Guess I couldnt find the remote. And it has to be some intentional theme that Russo must have been thinking about what to put in the 2nd hour (of the Monday taping) and thought of 'Homicide street fight' and then decided to fill in the rest of the show with another brawl pullapart, making everything totally meaninless. I'm sure someone told him it would look repetitive, but I'm sure it was intentional and was to answer the critics of 'nonstop action.' Nash has to be working for free, as any nonfan would see this and think he was somebody's grandfather. Someone in Spike has to see this and say "there's no way we're paying for that!!" I would think his salary would cover all the cutbacks TNA has made regarding transportation and food. I mean the entire PCS, all 30 seconds every week, couldnt that all be done in one night? Or does Nash have to train to get his conditioning up for that? If you're a casual fan I guess you can say the PCS is entertaining, but I could watch a rerun of Three's Company at the same time and say 'that's the most entertaining part of Impact every week' How does that help anyone in TNA besides the cast of Threes Company? Horrible analogy I know but really the PCS is or has become a 'who can lose my respect first contest.' Austin Aries... nuff said I wonder what it's like watching the live taping of all 3 hours, comparing before Russo and now. Without the backstage stuff it might seem like alot of good wrestling. although it would be akin to fastforwarding dozens of storylines from the end of one ppv to the start of another. And theyre only selling to the fans who watch everything anyway so that doesnt help the buyrates. But they should already know Russo is a ppv killer, he's already gone on record saying his job is always to raise viewership no matter what, which I imagine would include sacrificing ppv buys. I think it would be better to have certain limits on the ppv lineups having Russo not able to touch or change certain things, and certainly not giving things away on tv, not even teases and annoying security brawls. They look good on tv if you're flipping through but if you're actually watching from the beginning it makes me change the channel as it's been done to death.

Anyone taller than Vince will always get a steady paycheck somehow as long as they keep their mouth shut. I cant think of any matchup I'd wanna see Lashley with (living or dead) and I bet Vince has been salivating over a Lashley/Khali matchup as soon as they moved him over there. I actually hesitate when complaining about this show because unspectacular is a good word for it, but could be a whole lot worse as other companies and shows have demonstrated. Other threads have talked about wanting to add more comedy which will lead to more uncomedy and in turn less wrestling, or at least more bad wrestling. In particular the live shows that air after Smackdown: the last thing you'd want is an already partially dead crowd after screaming for 2 hours for the Miz and MVP, to watch horrible backstage segments when they could be on their way home already. I attended one taping myself in the summer and it happened to be before Raw instead of a live taping. This was much better since the crowd was hot since it was the first action theyd see, and overall enough matches for the night since a normal Raw nowadays has about 15 minutes of actual wrestling if you dont count the main event. The crowd was really hot the first few months of the live shows because it was still new and there was hope it wouldnt suck back then. They still hadnt depushed the original ECW guys and Angle was still shoring up the ranks. All of a sudden 90% of the show became squash matches that you dont even see on C-level shows anymore. The biggest hurdle really besides all the big goofs walking around and no aggressive head writer is that the whole roster falls into either being midcard rejects, or guys Mcmahon never heard of or are in his doghouse. At least in the 80s he would have to actually watch the matches and put over all the talent since he was announcing. You could tell for the last 4 months Big Show was the only Vince cared about being protected. The only enjoyable thing about the last show is Rob wasnt squashed as bad as Sabu because he's still popular and Lashley looked totally weak for being unable to continue after a freakin closeline

Vince should hav Federline beat all his other champs to prove to the fans and critics he's not a beefcake lover like everyone thinks he is. And then hire more beefcake. The show is pretty unspectacular pre and post Heyman. They need to decide if this is a C-level show, a developmental show, or something else. The title is really all they have, with a roster smaller than the worst indy companies. With only one title they would have to turn the notch up on feuds and storylines, but either way the answer is getting more talent. And no the answer to all problems is not Gene freakin Snitsky. Without any big shows or ppvs to lead into, the show is always in a holding pattern, which is how DTD got so screwed up. The TNA sign was hilarious cause they cut away to any rvd signs during his intro and the letters were so scrunched together you didnt notice it till it was onscreen for too long. Im surprised they get fans to stay that late for the live taping. Aside from being on camera, I'd rather beat the traffic after having my fill of MVP.

Looked like an obvious table break, but then Lashley stood up and Rob moved from the apron to the 2nd rope. The announcers bailed so it shouldve broke. Lashley probably screwed up and it made him look weak, seeing as how he couldnt continue. Or maybe there was supposed to be a Test run-in but he was in the bathroom

It's hilarious to think Russo would consider that a success. He wants every fan for every segment to say "I dunno what's going on and I dont know the reasoning behind it." As for Nash he's the highest paid guy in the company right? And he doesnt even do anything, so why ruin it by wrestling.

That's the one thing that's a relief with TNA despite their insanity for workin with Russo: they dont have a hardon for musclebound tall guys like Vince does. But that comes from the Jarretts being smaller and Vince thinking bodybuilding is the greatest thing ever invented. I actually think if Vince had a choice between Angle in his prime or signing a Khali or Nathan Jones, he would pass over Angle. He will eventually have a company full of musclebound guys who don't even want to be wrestlers. It's even more of a blow for the business the way it is now because not only will fans lose interest, but it cuts off people who would aspire to be wrestlers. Imagine the NBA announcing theyre only hiring 7 foot guys from now on, cause no one's interested in guys who play other positions. Totally clueless in sports AND entertainment yet they still make millions. Somehow he thinks the greatest success he's ever had the last 5 years is the divasearch so he's trying to run every aspect of the business like that. Genius. It's been a secret plan to recreate the wbf, I just never realized it till now.

it says heyman agreed to leave in a meeting before the ppv but then says after the show bombed he was going to leave. So that means if the show was a success and got a big thumbs up Heyman wouldve still left?

the promo wouldve made sense if SHow was off tv, but if he was getting a rematch that night it wouldnt make sense for him to be crying his eyes out. the beginning had a lot of passion and i could imagine him really leaving after that. (you dont see alot of storyline crying in wrestling outside of Kane and Bobby Heenan) but saying 'that's it i'm done' isnt exactly selling the idea that Show had a chance at winning.

As soon as Lashley won, Vince should have came out and said " I know what you guys wanna see: Bikinis!" I dont see anymore point in complaining about the show. Heyman got all the blame for any and all problems and they sent him home. Mission accomplished.

Instead of adding an hour to the show, wouldnt it be better to have another hour of programming on another night to try and get the word out? It would at least improve the perception that they're a bigger company than they are. I'm just thinking that going 2 hours fulltime isnt going to mean as much as they think in the long run. I dont know the logistics of adding another night. They would still tape to air later but I dont watch Spike besides tna and ufc, I figured all they air is movies and replays, so what could it hurt?

London and Kendrick getting the 'Mysterio push' by losing every week to the whole roster. Wonderful

Lashley vs Khali to headline ONS 3, cant wait

Are we going to get to a point where the creative team is comprised mostly of people who have no wrestling background? ( i dont know maybe we're already there) Eventually it'll just be the mcmahons sitting across the table from Grisham

The problem was right from the start of the 1st scifi show when they had that horrible extreme battle royal. So either Vince comes up with crappy ideas and Heyman gets the blame when the idea bombs which would make Vince INSANE, or he rejects 98% of what Paul comes up with and so whatever's left is only marginally better than what Vince would agree with and still gets the blame despite not being able to do what he wants. Sounds like typical employees that are kept around just to be horsewhipped.

It is pretty surprising he's been there for over 5 years and has always been treated crappy. I'm very thankful for letting him run Smackdown for 9 great months producing the best wrestling tv show that year.

This will get a low buyrate and all the people that did order are pissed so the next ppv will get a low buyrate which is Smackdown and the one after that is the Rumble which always does well for some stupid reason; so the result will be guys like Kevin Dunn will say no one cares about any of the shows except Raw so they should all be more like Raw with their Russo-like storylines. Happy New Year.

Maybe they can find a way to book Batista worse, so they could have all 3 champions booked as babyfaces but still get a lot of boos. That would be great.

I think Vince actually thought he was gonna send the fans home happy because hes fuckin clueless. I wouldnt mind as much if there was some actual build but Lashley literally walked in weeks ago, at least the others have been there for a while with the low payoffs. And the whole 'I'll walk in and sign the contract' is an annoying logic hole that always bothered me, like with HBK for WM 20. So if Stevie Richards got in the ring first he couldve got to main event too? There wasnt much planning into it at all, it's obvious the whole thing was set aside as soon as they got a ppv date set. It's funny how this entire thread from the very beginning is all about 'when are they gonna add matches? and when are they gonna add more guys?" and the show ended up as underbooked as when the thread started. More guys should have been protected. One of the faces should have beat Show and have him be the first guy out. Hell, why not have everyone turn on him? But then again if all you have now is Lashley vs the other babyfaces, they decided not to have them beaten by Lashley although there would have been more suspense with 3 babyfaces as the last guys in. Isnt the new champ the same guy that got hit in the balls by Tatanka not long ago and never even got his beat back?

since they didnt bother to promote this show at all, why not try something new and try and have a good show and keep the wwe influence out? If the show does horrible they may shut the whole thing down, which I fear would kill alot of guys' careers if they had to get shoved onto the other shows. And with no more house shows, this would have been their last chance to do something different. Instead of turning up the heat on good tv as the ppv got closer, the shows got more bland, like they were just writing filler for in between Marine and See no Evil commercials.

why did the bigger guys like Thorne and Terkay got de-pushed so much?

When they wanted to go full-on ECW they didnt want to announce matches for ONS or promote it much. When they still ran their own ppvs they wouldnt announce the card at all towards the end, just the title and the date. But I think that had to do with the controversy at the time that the cable company would not let them charge more than 20 bucks for a ppv, even when it was clear that if they raised the price to 30 (which was how much they cost back in the day) they would still get the exact same number of buys. And when they stopped announcing a full card, it was true, the number of buys still stayed the same.

Hope theyre not spending any money on these guys not wrestling. I wonder if this is just confined to these 2 or there were other guys like the Dudleys that turned them down. This is just a midcard thing at best and it's more about exposure and is kept away from the main event scene, since they already have many things screwing that up as well. I remember the promo that Rhyno did months ago that made him seem like a bigger star even though he's lost 90% of his matches since then. Imagine if he did that promo every week and it became his gimmick, he'd be as pathetic as these guys. So hopefully that means theyre not using any guys for this storyline with any sort of a future. I also think they go overboard with guys whining in interviews about being held back. Does anyone think the live audience will eventually turn on this crap, like with the Jackass stuff? Particularly since they do the whole 3 shows in one night taping, they could have 3 interviews in-ring saying the same stuff over again, at least when they do those poorly lit segments they dont have to watch it with the rest of us. I can eventually see the crowd getting sick of this and start chanting We Dont Care, which Russo will see as great passion and heat from the fans and will turn up the volume on the angle, and create a spinoff group with the initials W.D.C which he will fill in later, then take a break from TNA for being burned out on all his work on making initials and how he was held back by TNA management.

It seems like forever maybe even before the shows split where they had a ppv with no card announced or they had show where the main event was so monumentous they didnt bother and just pushed it as a one match show. I hope they get a hot crowd at least, but even Sunday night heat had more star power on some weeks. Probably the biggest flaw is the show is for the one match and the one match is for the title, and the champ had better things to so he spent a month feuding with Cena and end up getting pinned by him at SS. So they had to push the hell out of the contenders on all 3 shows and they didnt do that, all they push is the EC which isnt that great to begin with. You could also argue the last Raw ppv may have had bigger names and has a HIAC and TLC match and did about what they expected. If this show tanks it's all their fault in the promotion, but Heyman will of course get all the blame. The last tv did a good job building but 1)burying Terkay wasnt a good move for any reason 2)Hardys are an ok side attraction but youve seen them on tv for free what exactly is enticing for people with 40 bucks in their pockets? 3)No one cares about Joey Mercury 4)the title isnt a big deal if their champ is losing a feud with Cena constantly and getting beat by all the other competitors. (they may swerve the title to Test and give him the same push as Show got this past summer) 5)No one cares about Joey Mercury those pics of Shango and Boogeyman make a better combo than the real VKM. Hilarious about the part where it says they will agree to the match if they stop the 'stupid televised skits,' like they want a monopoly on those, lol. Reminds me of the initial ecw/wwf relationship that didnt help wwf at all because the viewers were small to begin with or they were already watching wwf anyway. Vince could kill tna so easily if they put some muscle into ecw as a real brand. That was my first thought when they officially announced bringing them back. The only 2 places wrestlers want to go right now are tna or ecw.

thank god they hired choreographers. i was afraid they were losing track of their priorities