Guest Shadow Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 "Where do you go when you can't go higher? You take a turn. Too much too fast? Be a heel." While I agreed with you for most of your post, Brian, this I don't agree with. I don't think RVD can ever really be a heel- at least, not without sharpening his interviewing skills. The reason why he's over as a face is because of his wrestling style- now, if he turns heel and wrestles the same style, he's still going to get cheered for his high-flying manuvers. To me, the only way for RVD to turn himself heel would be to completley reinvent himself: i.e., lose the high-flying style and teach himself a mat-based style so the fans aren't popping for every high spot. -Shadow
Guest TheHulkster Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 WWE Undisputed Title Rock v. Undertaker v. Kurt Angle That's a tough one. Rocky tries to beat Flair's record by winning his 7th world title. WWE Tag Team Titles Edge/Hulk Hogan v. Christian/Lance Storm Edge/Hogan. Since Edge is facing Y2J on SD, I don't see him turning anti-american right now. Will HHH choose Raw or Smackdown: RAW NO DQ/ NO Countout Booker T v. Big Show It doesn't matter to me who wins, I just hope it's a good match. I'll pick Booker Table Match Spike/Bubba Ray Dudley v. Eddie/Benoit Benoit/Eddie WWE Intercontinental Title RVD V. Brock Lesnar I'm with the author of this thread on this one. Brock by DQ. WWE Cruiserweight Title Jamie Knoble v. Billy Kidman Kidman Vs Rey is more appealing the Noble Vs Rey because of their history. I'll go with Kidman. WWE Women's Title Molly Holly v. Torrie Wilson They are on the fence about Jericho Vs Cena, yet they put this shit on the card? Molly wins while i'm getting a beer from the fridge.
Guest deadbeater Posted July 20, 2002 Report Posted July 20, 2002 Wait a minute. Torrie is supposed to be in The World while Vengeance is on. Is this some kind of wicked double-booking angle cooked up by Heyman in response to Sabu joining NWA:TNA? Will Torrie at the World be just a recording of her dissing Molly while Molly looks in disgust, only to be ambushed from behind by Torrie?? Nah, the WWE writers aren't that intelligent, are they?
Guest candie45 Posted July 21, 2002 Report Posted July 21, 2002 Prediction #1: The fans at Detroit will suck my ass. I just found 4 main floor row 1 seats on Ticketmaster. Winners: WWE Undisputed Title Rock v. Undertaker v. Kurt Angle Rock WWE Tag Team Titles Edge/Hulk Hogan v. Christian/Lance Storm Edge/Hogan Will HHH choose Raw or Smackdown: Raw NO DQ/ NO Countout Booker T v. Big Show Booker T, please. Table Match Spike/Bubba Ray Dudley v. Eddie/Benoit Benoit/Guererro WWE Intercontinental Title RVD V. Brock Lesnar Brock. But yeah, RVD will keep the title. WWE Cruiserweight Title Jamie Knoble v. Billy Kidman Knoble WWE Women's Title Molly Holly v. Torrie Wilson Um, this is a match? Okay... Molly.
Guest GenerationNever Posted July 21, 2002 Report Posted July 21, 2002 The solution is simple: The HHHaters combine there money and hire a hitman to whack Hunter in the leg with a baton. This will "Nancy Kerrigan" him and prevent him from coming back to the ring. Problem solved.
Guest Frankie Williams Posted July 21, 2002 Report Posted July 21, 2002 Torrie cant be wrestling Molly. They already announced that she would be at The World during the ppv.
Guest Frankie Williams Posted July 21, 2002 Report Posted July 21, 2002 Oops....someone already posted about Torrie being at the World...sorry.
Guest CanadianChris Posted July 21, 2002 Report Posted July 21, 2002 Dunno about the matches, but HHH definitely goes to Raw. I can just hear the conversation now... Steph: "Are you sure you want to go to Raw?" HHH: "Yeah, my work here is done...time to go hold down the talent on the other show. RVD looks like he's getting over. I'll show him. Plus, I can get into a program with Benoit so all those Internet losers will think my workrate's back up. I can't lose!" Steph: "But Hunter, what happens if Jericho starts getting over again?" HHH: "Duh! You just make me the champ again so I can go back to SmackDown! That midget's never getting past the midcard again if I can help it."
Guest ShamRock Posted July 21, 2002 Report Posted July 21, 2002 Winners: The Rock Team Canada Booker T Eddie Guerrero & Chris Benoit Brock Lesnar Jamie Noble Molly Holly If Jericho has a match,he's gonna win. Triple H chooses RAW and will hold down talent for a few months on RAW and then switch back to Smackdown.
Guest AndrewTS Posted July 21, 2002 Report Posted July 21, 2002 Predictions for CONFIRMED matches: WWE Undisputed Championship The Rock vs. Kurt Angle vs. Undertaker Kurt Angle. I believe there's a possibility that the early magazine cover with Rock as champion could be a SWERVE...but that would mean a pointless title switch on free TV. Still--may put a PPV Main Event match on free TV as a ratings gimmick. However, a Brock/Angle match would be awesome if Brock were allowed to WRESTLE it instead of power move his way to victory. Sorry...call me crazy, but I'll go against the grain here. Winner: Kurt Angle Intercontinental Championship Rob Van Dam vs. Brock Lesnar RVD rules. I like RVD...sure, spotty and not big on psychology, but screw that--exciting matches don't suck, my friend. However...don't think he's coming through. Mr. Monday Night (how appropriate that nick is...) will put Brock over, since they'll continue the force-feeding push for Brockolli all the way to SS. Winner: King Thing Tag Team Championship Hollywood Hulk Hogan & Edge vs. Christian & Lance Storm The possibility is there for Edge to turn on Hogan and join his brother, Lance, and Test. However, counting on them to still even count Edge as Canadian is a tad naive...and Edge just doesn't seem like he'd fit as a heel just yet. I predict Storm and X-ian to take it, but try to convince Edge to join them down the line, after bringing up the old relationship again. Winners: Christian and Lance Storm--new tag team champs. Tag Team Table Match Bubba & Spike Dudley vs. Chris Benoit & Eddie Guerrero Bubba's been being protected, and something tells me that they aren't that interesting in pushing the vanilla midgets. Still...it's the freakin' DUDLEYS 2K2!! Spike's there to take a wicked bump through a table, and hopefully Benoit and Guerrero go over. See? Two in a row--I'm not THAT cynical. Winners: Latino HEEEEEEEAT and the Crippler. No Disqualification, No Count-out Booker T vs. Big Show Booker should go over clean here. No questions asked. Thank you, drive through. Winner: Booker T Cruiserweight Championship Jamie Noble vs. Billy Kidman Someone else said it already; Noble's keeping it warm for Rey. Expect a good match, with Noble retaining. Winner: Jamie Noble Will Triple H join RAW or SmackDown!? ..... Smackdown...PLEASE!!! Although Dusty signing him for Heat would much, much better. Expected matches: Jericho vs. Cena Jericho could job here and not lose any heat...and besides, HHH likely is still continuing his campaign to drive Jericho out of the business, thus... Winner: Cena Molly Holly vs. Random WWE Whorebag Molly's been a fairly dominant champ so far, and since they haven't even bothered to officially announce a challenger for her, likely she'll retain if she defends at the PPV. Winner: Molly Holly.
Guest Black Tiger Posted July 21, 2002 Report Posted July 21, 2002 WWE Undisputed Title Rock v. Undertaker v. Kurt Angle Rock is leaving so not much sense in putting it on him. I have to go with Angle. WWE Tag Team Titles Edge/Hulk Hogan v. Christian/Lance Storm. Edge vs Jericho is set for Smackdown! so I don't see Edge turning heel here. Jericho will cost them the titles to build up the Smackdown! match. Will HHH choose Raw or Smackdown: I hope to see him on Smackdown! because I watch RAW. NO DQ/ NO Countout Booker T v. Big Show Booker T is getting a push and Big Show sucks, figure it out for yourselves. Table Match Spike/Bubba Ray Dudley v. Gurrero/Benoit Guerrero and Benoit all the way WWE Intercontinental Title RVD V. Brock Lesnar I pick RVD, a rematch on RAW to determine the challenger for SS. The loser here wins that one. WWE Cruiserweight Title Jamie Knoble v. Billy Kidman I have to go with Knoble, if only to job to Mysterio. WWE Women's Title Molly Holly v. Torrie Wilson Molly can wrestle, Trish can barely wrestle.
Guest AndrewTS Posted July 21, 2002 Report Posted July 21, 2002 Black Tiger: WHOO-HOOO! All the same picks (if that Molly-Trish thing meant a win for Molly) except for the Brock-RVD match! Although...rematch on Raw...hmm...didn't think of that. I'll stand by my pick, because I thought it was SS shot vs. IC title, but I guess your scenario is likely, too.
Guest LesnarLunatic Posted July 21, 2002 Report Posted July 21, 2002 Here's my picks.. presented via TNM Molly Holly pinned Torrie Wilson with the Molly-Go-Round in 0:09:48. Rating: -** Jaime Knoble made Billy Kidman submit to the Trailer Hitch in 0:07:10. Rating: **** 1/4 Rob Van Dam pinned Brock Lesnar with the Five Star Frog Splash in 0:09:07. Rating: ** Table Match: Spike Dudley and Bubba Ray Dudley defeated Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero when Spike defeated Benoit by putting him through a table in 0:11:10. Rating: ** 1/4 No-Countout-No-DQ-Match: Booker T pinned Paul Wight with the Bookend in 0:06:24. Rating: -3/4* The Canadian Horsemen (Christian and Lance Storm) defeated Hulk Hogan and Edge when L. Storm pinned Edge after a small package in 0:12:48. Rating: * 3/4 Triangle Match: The Rock defeated Kurt Angle and The Undertaker when Rock pinned Undertaker after a Rock Bottom in 0:15:02. Rating: *** 3/4 and HHH picks Smackdown, because Steph is a face and all.
Guest chirs3 Posted July 21, 2002 Report Posted July 21, 2002 WWE Undisputed Title Rock v. Undertaker v. Kurt Angle -----> Rock WWE Tag Team Titles Edge/Hulk Hogan v. Christian/Lance Storm -----> ChriStorm, maybe after Jericho interferes (not joining Team Canada, just sticking it to Edge) Will HHH choose Raw or Smackdown: -----> The obvious choice seems like Raw... but, now that I think about... There's no denying Triple H is over as a face - I am NOT saying he's anywhere near the most over, but he is somewhat over. If the WWE is trying to bill Stephanie as the face GM, it would only make sense for Triple H to go "There's no one I hate more than you Stephanie... EXCEPT ERIC BISCHOFF!", kick wham pedigree, he puts personal difference aside and stays on SD! NO DQ/ NO Countout Booker T v. Big Show -----> FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, BOOKER! Table Match Spike/Bubba Ray Dudley v. Eddie/Benoit -----> Team Benurrero WWE Intercontinental Title RVD V. Brock Lesnar -----> I'm still praying that the WWE will actually put their "on the fly" booking to good use and make it RVD/Taker, but logic says Brock wins, probably DQ. WWE Cruiserweight Title Jamie Knoble v. Billy Kidman -----> Knoble WWE Women's Title Molly Holly v. Torrie Wilson -----> Molly. Yawn. Why the HELL isn't Jericho on the card?!
Guest Anglesault Posted July 21, 2002 Report Posted July 21, 2002 HHH has to hurn heel no matter what. There is no open heel on Raw (Benoit will be with Booker, Taker/RVD) and None on SD! (Jericho/Edge-Poor Jericho. Poor, poor Jericho) No ME level heel for him to work with.
Guest Brian Posted July 21, 2002 Report Posted July 21, 2002 "While I agreed with you for most of your post, Brian, this I don't agree with. I don't think RVD can ever really be a heel- at least, not without sharpening his interviewing skills. The reason why he's over as a face is because of his wrestling style- now, if he turns heel and wrestles the same style, he's still going to get cheered for his high-flying manuvers. To me, the only way for RVD to turn himself heel would be to completley reinvent himself: i.e., lose the high-flying style and teach himself a mat-based style so the fans aren't popping for every high spot." And while I pretty much agree with everything you've said, and that even with better mic work RVD would still need to reinvent his ring style and character. Well, Angle initially got over doing the mat based stuff. Anyways, what I meant was that when a character can't go further as a face you always have the heel option open and I think in April of 2000, Jericho was ready with the fans to make the next step as a legitimate champ because his finisher had enough credibility (which it doesn't now), he had enough heat and was genmerally in line to not only be a threat but a serious contender who could get a pinfall. The next step, to answer the question of where does he go afterward, is you either continue to push him or turn him heel (which probably would not have worked considering HHH was top heel). Could RVD have turned heel at the time? Probably not. But because his push was different than Jericho's, they gave him something immediately than slowly rebuilt him emphasizing his uniqueness in the ring; rather than the constant ups and downs of Jericho, he's probably more adaptable to be put in a drawing position at the moment. I've totally rambled, so I'll summarize everything: Jericho was perfect for main eventing at some point, April 2000. He was a credible, top notch player with two credible finishing maneuvers. He had mic skills and a grad entrance. You want to know where the WWE failed? It was not pushing Jericho when he was primed. Because they never recovered, Jericho never recovered. And if they did, and people's main argument at the time was "too much, too fast", well they always had a heel turn that Jericho has always had the type of personality that he could pull it off. In RVD's case, he was prime to go, but he had a different type of character that couldn't benefit from a heel turn but rather could afford to work as mid-card fodder unlike Jericho. Or I think that's what I said.
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted July 21, 2002 Report Posted July 21, 2002 It just occurred to me that Brock will win the IC title for one specific reason: Goldberg was US champion when he won the WCW title. And we all know where Vince is getting his Brock ideas from.
Guest EricMM Posted July 21, 2002 Report Posted July 21, 2002 WWE Title: I would say Rock, because it's the only SS main that has the possibility of drawing with the Vanilla Gorilla in it. UT and Angle just wouldn't work. HHH's choice: Call me a cynic, but I'll bet he'll go to RAW because there's noone left on SD! to give him the rub anymore. Whereas he can go to SD! and end the streak, turn, and beat RVD, and then become a champion and get the longest reign evar~! Sorry for the HHHate. IC: I really don't see the point of RVD losing the title to Brock, as long as he's going to face the Rock... So I would say either the streak ends (doubtful but possible) or RVD gets disqualified for using a chair w/ the Van Terminator, or Brock gets disqualified for using a chair to lay out RVD in three minutes. Call me a cynic.. Tag Titles: Here's how I see it playing out. Hogan and Edge dominate until Jericho comes out to interfere in Edge's match. He summarily gets speared, leg dropped, and a face clotheslines him out of the ring, then a heel hits a roll up to get the titles. [cynical] Cena then comes out to get Jericho, and Jericho begins his new gimmick, the patented "run around the ring a la shane mcmahon while escaping the face" sigh [/cynical] Tables: First eddy goes through a table via 3D, Spike gets i dunno tombstoned off the turnbuckle thru a table (I'd mark) and then bubba gets frogged thru the last one. Or you know the dudleys could win. Bubba hits 3 germans last one putting benoit thru a table, where spike puts the crossface on benoit, and he starts to scream and tap j/k. Womens: Hopefully molly retains vs Trish? Cruiser: an impressive match UNTIL Big Poppa Pump comes out, breaks Kidmans and Nobles legs with a steel pipe a la Daniels and Modest, and then takes the cruiser title. On SD! there is a 3 on 1 match where tajiri, chavo, and hurricane try to get their title back. BPP wins after putting all 3 in the steiner recliner. Then rey appears and steals the title back because vince knows all latinos are sneaky Maybe I'm being a little pessimistic and joking a bit, but still. Actually I know Noble will win.
Guest wwF1587 Posted July 21, 2002 Report Posted July 21, 2002 WWE Title Winner: Rock (why he deserves it is beyond me? he just came back to leave again) RVD-Lesner Winner: Lesner (Rock VS bROCK = RATINGS wwe logic) Tag Titles Winner: Team Canada Cruiserweight Winner: Knoble Tables Winner: Beniot/Eddy after a sick bump by Spike Booker T/Big Slow Winner: Using WWE logic, Big Slow finally gets his win. I hope Booker does though Womans Winner: Molly after noone cares JustInCase: Jericho/Cena Winner: Cena cause Jericho winning would be a crime. HHH RAW or SACKDOWN! ... hate to say it but I think HHH is going to RAW. Well soo much for RVD's push.
Guest Kahran Ramsus Posted July 21, 2002 Report Posted July 21, 2002 WWE Undisputed Title Rock v. Undertaker v. Kurt Angle WINNER: The Rock. This one is in the bag. WWE Tag Team Titles Edge/Hulk Hogan v. Christian/Lance Storm WINNER: Team Canada, after Edge turns on Hogan. Should be the best match of the show, seeing how Hogan's involvement should be limited. Will HHH choose Raw or Smackdown: I used to think RAW, but Bischoff being in the car seems to mean swerve. It makes sense that HHH should go to RAW (to boost the star power), but WWE logic says HHH stays on Smackdown. I will go with the Smackdown answer. NO DQ/ NO Countout Booker T v. Big Show WINNER: Booker T. Big Show is all that remains of the former NWO. That mess will be taken care of when he jobs clean to Booker tonight. Table Match Spike/Bubba Ray Dudley v. Gurrero/Benoit WINNER: Guerrero & Benoit. The Dudleys have no chance, though they probably get their heat back after the match. Probably on Guerrero, who has been quite the jobber recently. WWE Intercontinental Title RVD V. Brock Lesnar WINNER: RVD, via Outside Interference (probably Rock or Taker). Since the title shot isn't up and the IC title is, RVD will win, but Brock won't job clean. This will just be a huge mess. WWE Cruiserweight Title Jamie Knoble v. Billy Kidman WINNER: Knoble. Knoble is losing to Misterio, period. WWE Women's Title Molly Holly v. Torrie Wilson WINNER: Molly, but she won't be good enough to get a good match out of the horrible Torrie.
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