Ken Griffey Jr.

[Guest Human Fly]

Well, the Reds activated Junior off of the DL again today. He still isn't 100% and he isn't going to do a rehab stint in AAA. I almost expect him to pull up lame tonight going for a catch or rounding first. We need his bat and his defense, but we don't need him being rushed back.....again. And then gettting injured.....again.

[Guest jimmy no nose]

I wish he could just come back and be at top form again. He was so fun to watch. For a while it looked like he had a real shot at Aaron's record, but I think that's passed him now.

[Guest Sandman9000]

It's sad to see that him and Frank Thomas, once locks for the Hall of Fame, need a miracle to step into Cooperstown.

[Guest alkeiper]

Frank Thomas really should be in the Hall of Fame regardless. His OBP is 6th all time, and his slugging pct. is 12th all time. 8 times he's finished in the top 10 in MVP voting. And he's won the MVP award twice.

 

Griffey is still a near lock for 500 home runs. He's finished in the top 10 of MVP voting 7 times. He's won 10 gold glove awards. He'll make the Hall too.

[Guest Choken One]

Thomas and Junior won't have problems making the hall.

 

Will Junior send this team back to the top? Who knows? I can only Hope.

[Guest jimmy no nose]

He had a decent first game back and hasn't got injured yet. 2 for 3 with a sac fly and an RBI.

[Guest Human Fly]

If he wouldn't have sent the sac fly into opposite field it would have been a three run homer.

[Guest alkeiper]

My guess on Griffey's next injury: overdose of nerve tonic, causing enlargement of the head.

[Guest jimmy no nose]

My guess on Griffey's next injury: overdose of nerve tonic, causing enlargement of the head.

Ah, that was a great episode. Shave off those sideburns.

[Guest DrEvil]

and save my cat.

[Guest alkeiper]

Has anyone seen Ozzie Smith lately? Its like he disappeared off the face of the Earth.

[Guest Invader3k]

Actually I saw they were doing a special on Ozzie the other day on ESPN Classic the other night. Man, he used to be awesome, doing the cartwheels and stuff.

 

Anyways, as a follower of baseball, I can say that I used to be a fan of Griffey, but over the last few years couldn't care less what he's been doing. Usually that's been do to the fact that he's been habitually injured.

 

The other day I was at a doctor's office for an appoitment and was browsing the magazines. I couldn't help but chuckle at the cover story on an issue of ESPN Magazine that proclaimed Junior was still "the greatest player in baseball." Um, come on now, let's not get delusional...

 

And on a related note, is anyone else sick of the Barry Bonds worship that has sprung up in baseball since last year? Didn't everyone hate him two years ago? I know I personally don't care for him...

[Guest jimmy no nose]

And on a related note, is anyone else sick of the Barry Bonds worship that has sprung up in baseball since last year? Didn't everyone hate him two years ago? I know I personally don't care for him...

I've worshipped Barry Bonds for about 10 years, but most of these other people just jumped in after his 60th homer last year.

[Guest Some Guy]

bonds made a concerted effort to not act like a total dickhead to everyone last year. He knew he was doing something that could make him loved nationwide and didn't want to ruin it. Now if only he and Jeff Kent can get along.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Why won't Griffey go on a rehab assignment. He needs to get some AB and see if he's ready to help the team. He does this every time he's injured. It's not gonna kill you Ken to play 5 games down in Florida.

[Guest DrTom]

I think Griffey's chances of catching Aaron are gone. The best thing he can do is take whatever steps necessary to be 100% for next season. He could still post some awesome career numbers with 3-5 more healthy seasons. If he gets even 2-3 more healthy seasons, I think he'll be a lock for Cooperstown.

 

Frank Thomas, on the other hand, will struggle to make it in.

[Guest jimmy no nose]

I think Griffey's chances of catching Aaron are gone. The best thing he can do is take whatever steps necessary to be 100% for next season. He could still post some awesome career numbers with 3-5 more healthy seasons. If he gets even 2-3 more healthy seasons, I think he'll be a lock for Cooperstown.

 

Frank Thomas, on the other hand, will struggle to make it in.

Yeah, he has no shot at Griffey, but has a good chance for 500 homers or whatever if he stays healthy. If he does some good conditioning maybe he can go 5 years plus. I'd call him a first ballot Hall of Famer as long as he gets in about 3-4 years.

 

I think Thomas will make the Hall, but it may take a while. Maybe 5-10 years after his first ballot he'll go in. I think he deserves it.

[Guest Choken One]

Thomas will need ONE MORE outstanding year to lock it up.

 

Speaking of which...How many current players are already locks for Hall?

 

Clemens

Piazza

I-Rod

R. Johnson

C. Schilling

R. Henderson

M. Rivera

Barry Larkin

 

 

Anyone else? I won't count The Bagwells and Shefffield's because we don't know if they have peaked yet.

[Guest alkeiper]

I wouldn't call Schilling a lock. Same for Mariano Rivera. Bruce Sutter, Goose Gossage and Dan Quisenberry aren't HOFers, and all were great closers. Ricera's had 6-7 good years. He needs to play the next 2 seasons to even be ELIGIBLE for the Hall.

 

Bagwell's in. How many 30/30 1st basemen do you see? Greg Maddux is easily a HOFer. Same for Roberto Alomar. Sosa's only 20 HRs away from 500, so he'll go in. Edgar Martinez is deserving as well.

[Guest jimmy no nose]

Thomas will need ONE MORE outstanding year to lock it up.

 

Speaking of which...How many current players are already locks for Hall?

 

Clemens

Piazza

I-Rod

R. Johnson

C. Schilling

R. Henderson

M. Rivera

Barry Larkin

 

 

Anyone else? I won't count The Bagwells and Shefffield's because we don't know if they have peaked yet.

Well, there's this guy called Barry Bonds, I hear he's pretty good.

[Guest Human Fly]

It's not gonna kill you Ken to play 5 games down in Florida.

 

The sad thing is the Reds AAA club is in Louisville which is just around 90 miles south of Cincy. They were home for three games, and then the Reds could've called up Griffey for when they go to NY this weekend.

 

I don't blame Junior for this, it was the Reds decision not to send him down.

[Guest alkeiper]

Yeah, but look at the playoffs

 

Hehe, anyone who doesn't vote Bonds in should have their BBWAA membership revoked.

[Guest Choken One]

Of Course, Bonds, Alomar and Maddux are locks those were just off the top of my head.

 

Also include

 

Larry Walker (Although some may argue against with Coors being his backyard)

Edgar Martinez (D.H may hurt him with the purists)

Tom Glavine (Unappreciated)

John Smoltz (Look at Glavine)

SOSA (If the 'Roids aren't proven)

Fred McGriff (Not a 1st Ballot)

Rafeal Palimero (Quietest 500 hr hitter ever!)

Pedro Martinez (I think his numbers would hold out)

Mo Vaugh (Needs a couple more good years)

 

 

This was a list of Current players that if they were to retire tonight, would be HOF's...Which is why Jeter, Nomar, A-Rod, Thome and others aren't on the list.

[Guest DrTom]

Choken, you're incredibly permissive when it comes to putting people in the Hall. I think it's reserved for the game's true greats, the players who defined their eras and dominated their opponents. You seem to be willing to enshrine someone simply for being a good player over a long number of seasons, and to me, that's not enough.

 

Some of the people you've mentioned that I find very questionable are:

 

Frank Thomas: Injuries, surliness, and being a DH because he was a shitty first baseman will work against him. Veterans Committee only.

 

Larry Walker: Coors + too many injuries = not enough credentials.

 

Edgar Martinez: I think being a DH will certainly hurt him. Also, he's a very good player, but I don't think he's the dominant type who should walk right into the Hall.

 

Fred McGriff: Longevity is his best attribute.

 

Mo Vaughn: Um... no.

 

Randy Johnson: He got started late, so his career numbers won't be as good in some of the key categories. If he can be a good pitcher for another four years, I think he has a good chance. But if he retired right now, I'm not so certain.

 

Curt Schilling: See Randy Johnson.

 

Mariano Rivera: He's been dominant, but closers have trouble getting elected. If he finished with something ridiculous like 500 saves, he'll be hard to keep out, but 300-400 won't get him in.

 

Barry Larkin: Certainly a very good player, but not Hall material.

 

I'll gladly give you Glavine, Smoltz (especially if he closes for a few more years), Sosa, Palmeiro, Pedro, Clemens, Piazza, Pudge, and Henderson. If those guys don't get in, something's very wrong with the whole process.

[Guest phoenixrising]

I think Johnson will get in first ballot - though his career win total isn't that great, his strikeout total is, the guy has four Cy Youngs and he has been one of the (if not THE) most dominant pitchers of his era.

 

Schilling - he'll be hurt because of playing in Philly so long where he rarely got wins.

 

No one mentioned Greg Maddux, who is a sure-fire first ballot Hall of Famer.

 

I don't know about Sheffield - he has very big seasons and then follows them up with not so great ones.

[Guest meanmaisch]

Schilling won a decent amount of games for the Phillies. It was the rest of the team that sucked. Sheffield won't make it. Just remember that Jim Rice was the best player in the American League from the mid-70's until the mid-80's and he's not in. If he played today, he would probably be even better. The factors that kept him out were that he didn't have a good relationship with the writers (they vote on who gets in the hall) and that his ability dropped very low at the end of his career.

[Guest alkeiper]

Choken, you're incredibly permissive when it comes to putting people in the Hall. I think it's reserved for the game's true greats, the players who defined their eras and dominated their opponents. You seem to be willing to enshrine someone simply for being a good player over a long number of seasons, and to me, that's not enough.

 

I'd love to see such a standard, but the Veterans Committees of the 40s and 70s destroyed that long ago. How do you leave these players out when Chick Hafey, Ross Youngs, Travis Jackson, and Harry Hooper among others are in. Hell, I could give you a list of 50 1st basemen that are better than George Kelly.

 

Randy Johnson- If he retires today, he's in the Hall. 4 Cy Youngs. Twice he finished 2nd. Plus, he's led the league in strikeouts 7 times. For a few years he was the best pitcher in the game.

 

A few of those I disagree with DrTom on.....

 

Larry Walker- Yeah, Coors helped him. Still, he put up good numbers outside of Coors Field. During his 49 Home Run season, he hit 29 of those on the road. I wouldn't put him in the hall though, because of his injuries and missed time. Still, he was a heck of a player.

 

Edgar Martinez is easily the best DH in the history of the game. He has an OBP of .425, 12th best ever. Should he be penalized for the DH? Maybe, but someone has to DH, and besides, he could've played 1B if he had too. Heck, he played 3B for a third of his career.

 

Barry Larkin- An 11 time All Star. Would've won more Gold Gloves if not for Ozzie Smith. Hit .353 in the World Series. Basically, Larkin is underrated cause he did everything well, rather than excel at just one aspect.

 

 

Phoenix, Schilling was hurt most by injuries limiting his playing time during the prime of his career. He's pitched over 200 innings just 6 times. The Phillies didn't hurt him much. In fact, he finished 16-7 in 1993 despite a 4.02 ERA. His next win will give him his 150th, and he needs 200 to have any kind of chance at the Hall.

 

Sheffield has post a .400+ OBP seven years straight. About another 70 HRs will give him 400, which he has plenty of time to get.

 

And I mentioned Maddux.

 

 

Meanmaisch, George Brett and Eddie Murray were both better than Jim Rice. Rice was the best player for maybe a year.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

It's not gonna kill you Ken to play 5 games down in Florida.

 

The sad thing is the Reds AAA club is in Louisville which is just around 90 miles south of Cincy. They were home for three games, and then the Reds could've called up Griffey for when they go to NY this weekend.

 

I don't blame Junior for this, it was the Reds decision not to send him down.

I'm not buying that Griffey would of gone on a rehab assignment. He's never done it in the past and I don't see him starting know.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

I'd love to see such a standard, but the Veterans Committees of the 40s and 70s destroyed that long ago. How do you leave these players out when Chick Hafey, Ross Youngs, Travis Jackson, and Harry Hooper among others are in. Hell, I could give you a list of 50 1st basemen that are better than George Kelly.

The Veterans commitee was necessary in the 40's. That would of been the only way for people like Billy Hamilton, and John Clarkson to make the HOF.

 

After about 1970, is when they should of dropped the veterans commitee because none of those players where truely deserving.

[Guest El Hijo Del Lunatic]

Jimmy no nose SEZ:

For a while it looked like he had a real shot at Aaron's record, but I think that's passed him now.

He’s still got an outside shot, if he can stay healthy and do what he does best. He’s going to have a legit shot at Willie Mays, though. The one guy who has a real shot at Aaron right now is Sammy Sosa (unless Bonds hangs around for another few years). He’s the same age as Junior, has the same number of career HRs, but the last five years has been killing the ball like no other. At his current pace, he’d reach Hammerin’ Hank in 5 years.

 

Sandman9000 SEZ:

It's sad to see that him and Frank Thomas, once locks for the Hall of Fame, need a miracle to step into Cooperstown.

Oh, Junior’s going to get in, mark my words. He may be hobbled now, but he’s got a good 4-5 years left in him. The stuff he’s been on the DL for isn’t career-threatening. He’s got 10 Gold Gloves, an MVP, 450+ homeruns, four HR crowns, and 2000 hits. As for Frank Thomas, it’s going to be a tougher road for him, but it’s going to be made easier by the fact that for a couple years he was the best first baseman playing the game.

 

Invader3k SEZ:

And on a related note, is anyone else sick of the Barry Bonds worship that has sprung up in baseball since last year? Didn't everyone hate him two years ago? I know I personally don't care for him...

The media still hates him, they’re just on this “we have to respect your ability, Mr. Home Run God” kick.

 

Vern Gagne SEZ:

Why won't Griffey go on a rehab assignment. He needs to get some AB and see if he's ready to help the team. He does this every time he's injured. It's not gonna kill you Ken to play 5 games down in Florida.

Probably due to the ass-raping he’s been given my local fans and the local media. He thinks everyone considers him a big baby, because he’s been on the DL for what seems like ages with hamstring tweaks and kneecap problems. Those aren’t exactly the manliest of injuries. Plus, he’s been bitchy about the whole thing. So at this point I think he wants to get on the field and prove he’s the same player he was a few years ago, amd going to rehab would keep people talking about what a baby he is for another couple weeks. He probably feels like he’s got something to prove.

 

alkeiper SEZ:

In fact, he (Schilling) finished 16-7 in 1993 despite a 4.02 ERA.

Yeah, but he also finished 14-11 with a 2.35 ERA the year before that. He was 9-10 with a 3.19 ERA in 1996. He was 15-14 with a 3.25 ERA in 1998. He was 17-11 in 1997 with a 2.97 ERA. Those are some low ERAs to go with double-digit loss seasons. Plus, that year (1993) was the only year they finished above .500 while he was there.

 

Now, for some random hall-of-fame are-they-in-or-out thoughts:

 

Robby Alomar: Probably in, though his numbers don’t jump out at me and say “spectacular.”

Jeff Bagwell: It’s going to be tough for him to get in, because he’s only been SOLID of late.

Roger Clemens: No question, he’s in.

Tom Glavine: I want to say in, because of the pair of Cy Youngs on his mantle, plus the 230+ wins he’s amassed. But he wasn’t even the best pitcher on his team, and his ERA is solid if unspectacular. I will say that if he pitches like he’s pitched this year for a few more years, he’s golden.

Rickey Henderson: If he ever retires, he’ll be in five years later.

Barry Larkin: Borderline. He’ll never be considered the best shortstop of his era.

Edgar Martinez: Sure, he was a DH for most of his career, but he’s probably the best DH EVER. He’s in.

Pedro Martinez: I say he’s in right now. He’s got some blowaway stats, and if his arm ever gave, we can all point to Sandy Koufax and say “look at this guy!”

Greg Maddux: In like Flint. He’s getting to 300 wins. He might be the last guy to do that.

Fred McGriff: There are a few more deserving first basemen out there.

Rafael Palimero: Again, there are better first basemen ot there, but he deserves to get more of a look than he’ll get.

Mariano Rivera: Trevor Hoffman’s in before he is, but it’s a good sentiment.

Curt Schilling: It’s going to be tough to get him in, because then someone’s inevitably going to ask, “well, what’s the big difference between him and Kevin Brown?” and no one’s going to have a real answer for that. Their stats are strikingly similar, and both have led similar career paths (come up on a good team, pitch well while watching the team crumble around him, get traded to a winner, post ridiculous numbers). Of course, this could all be moot if Schilling wins a Cy Young to go with the ring.

Sammy Sosa: So in it hurts. He’s only 32, and he’s going to get to 500 homers by the end of the year. Who know where he’ll end up?

John Smoltz: No. If Glavine’s going to struggle to get in, then Smoltzie’s going to struggle ten times worse.

Mo Vaughn: No. No way. Not a chance. At least Frank Thomas had a few decent years to add to the two spectacular ones he had.

Larry Walker: A better chance than you’d think. Sure, he’s had Coors Field to play in, but he’s still got three batting crowns, a homerun crown, and six Gold Golves. If he gets a fourth batting title, it’s going to be real hard to keep him out. Besides, the Coors Field stigma is overrated. If you trade him somewhere where he doesn’t play 81 games in Denver, then sure, he doesn’t hit .400 at home – but I guarantee he hits better than .290 on the road.

 

Of course, to add to the debate:

Will Ichiro get in? Should he get in if he plays less than 10 years? How long does Ichiro have to play to get in? Personally, I think if he plays 7 years and plays like he’s been playing, he should go in.

 

And how many times did I tell Wade Boggs his views on British foreign policy were going to get him in trouble?

 

LUNATIC

- Pimpin' ho's and clockin' a grip like my name was Dolemite.