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Guest Lord of The Curry

Undertaker vs Lesnar dead already?

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Guest bps "The Truth" 21

The difference is that Taker and RVD have a 4 match history built in.

 

Taker and Brock start from scratch.

 

Regardless of Taker's history with big men...they couldn't build a better story for Brock/Taker in a month than RVD/Taker already has.

 

And the Brock/Taker payoff match would be terrible...

 

while the RVD/Taker match would not.

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Guest RavishingRickRudo

I can't really remember the RVD/Taker matches being all that awe-inspiring.

 

The Taker RVD feud is so disjointed that it will expose the directionless nature the Wwf has rather than the 'great-long-term-booking' aspect.

 

The Old Guard/New Guard archetype IMO is THE best archetype there is. It connects with every single fan as it deals with our mortality. It's success is proven in Austin/Hart (which I say is the best storyline the Wwf has ever done), and it doesn't need incredible moves and great workrate to be effective. All it needs to do is tell its story.

 

Paul Heyman could get that feud over in 3 promos. They could make a Taker-history montage making fans aware of their connection to him, enforce the old guard/new guard storyline, have Taker talk about all the men who he has beaten and all the 'next big things' he has seen come and go, and then have Lesnar convincingly beat Taker at Summerslam (not squash, but have him dominate with Taker getting one or two near falls).

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Guest bps "The Truth" 21

See...what happened was they accidentally took a great RVD/Taker story up a level every month or so.

 

Vengeance: RVD loses a match to Taker...hard fought but convining win for Taker

 

Raw #1 contenders match: Taker beats RVD again...this time after RVD manages to kick out of what should have been two finishes.

 

Raw Title match: RVD pins Taker to win the title...but his foot was on the ropes...and Taker wins in a restart.

 

 

The story is easy...RVD keeps coming closer and closer to defeating Taker and finally stake his claim as a top guy.

 

 

Brock and Taker are both big.

 

 

Somehow...not as impressive.

 

 

RVD finally beating Taker for the title was accidentally built up to the point where it would have ben the most meaningful title switch in a long long time. Probably since Jericho beat Rock at No Mercy..and that was for the WCW title.

 

Think of how many times the WWE title has changed hands this year...all meaningless.

 

RVD finally beating Taker would have meant something for a change.

 

Far more than it will when Brock beats Rock...no matter what they do in the next 3 1/2 weeks.

 

Which is super ironic since they want for the Brock win to be meaningful.

 

I smell a failure.

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Guest RavishingRickRudo

Again, the Rvd/Taker storyline is incredibly disjointed. RVD was not built up at all during the months in between, his trials and tribulations and growth had not been focused on, neither was his motivation. Had his motivation been, since losing to Taker at vengeance, to beat the undertaker (or with the World title), then the storyline would have made sense. It seems like grasping at straws rather than smart, long-term planning.

 

Brock Lesnar is a monster, but he is a rookie monster, he is the monster that Taker used to be.

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Guest bps "The Truth" 21

You still have to build Brock/Taker in 1 month.

 

Even if you think RVD/Taker history is disjointed...it...unlike anything with Brock...does exist.

 

I could also point out that when you look at Brock and RVD only one of them has met my 2 qualifications for a world champion:

 

1. Have at least a ***

2. Be over

 

I don't think Brock has done either yet.

 

Therefore...fans would not respnd to his win.

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Guest Flyboy

I could actually see the fans throw trash into the ring because they were so pissed that someone so green got the belt that fan...

 

Best reaction he'd get in his career.

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Guest RavishingRickRudo

RVD cannot cut promos as a world champion though, which is a major qualification for the Wwf brass. Brock has Heyman, nuff sayed.

 

The whole point of Taker vs Brock would be getting Brock over. You don't think he would get MASSIVE heel heat for beating a (well built-up) Undertaker? For beating the Big Dog in the Yard. The symbolism alone would make the fans rabid.

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Guest Flyboy
RVD cannot cut promos as a world champion though, which is a major qualification for the Wwf brass. Brock has Heyman, nuff sayed.

He could in ECW as the ECW TV Champ and ECW Tag Team Champ.. don't know why he couldn't in the WWE.

 

Plus, would he really have to cut promos? After, he wins the title all he has to say is that he'll take on all contenders because he's "R-V-D" or something like that...

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Guest Flyboy
The symbolism alone would make the fans rabid.

I seriously doubt that...

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Guest bps "The Truth" 21

"The whole point of Taker vs Brock would be getting Brock over. You don't think he would get MASSIVE heel heat for beating a (well built-up) Undertaker? For beating the Big Dog in the Yard. The symbolism alone would make the fans rabid. "

 

 

Counting on one match to get a guy over...especially when that guy will be the champion afterwards is the most risky thing you can do.

 

And even if it worked...he wouldn't be as over as...

 

R V D

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Guest bps "The Truth" 21

Which raises the interesting point...

 

The WWE spends countless time and sacrifices many workers to get people as over as RVD was the day he started competing in the WWF.

 

Why are they looking a gift horse in the mouth?

 

Especially when that gift horse happens to have good matches all the time...

 

Oh yeah...he isn't a WWE guy.

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Guest RavishingRickRudo

Um no... You are hearing that Brock has Paul Heyman...Who has promo skills.

 

RVD has yet to cut a single good promo in the Wwf, hell, his promos in ECW were nothing earth shattering either

 

RVD: "Hey fonzie, whats the matter with Sabu?"

 

Bill: "Oh daddy! He is just angry because you've got the belt Daddy!"

 

RVD: "Oh, well... whatever... Sabu needs to get fuckin high, but not as high as everyones favourite superstar, the whole fuckin show, R-V-D."

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Guest bps "The Truth" 21

No I don't.

 

I don't think I have a 7-11 in Buffalo.

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Guest Flyboy
RVD has yet to cut a single good promo in the Wwf, hell, his promos in ECW were nothing earth shattering either

 

RVD: "Hey fonzie, whats the matter with Sabu?"

 

Bill: "Oh daddy! He is just angry because you've got the belt Daddy!"

 

RVD: "Oh, well... whatever... Sabu needs to get fuckin high, but not as high as everyones favourite superstar, the whole fuckin show, R-V-D."

I was referring to RVD's promo on Lance Storm after Barely Legal '97 which bps had in his sig before he changed it.

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Guest bps "The Truth" 21

Don't make me retype the damn Barely Legal transcript again.

 

RVD has promo skills.

 

He's over as hell.

 

He's better than Brock is right now.

 

In fact...Brock kinda sucks.

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Guest Flyboy
Don't make me retype the damn Barely Legal transcript again.

 

In fact...Brock kinda sucks.

You should have saved it! :P

 

"kinda"? Hee-hee.

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Guest bps "The Truth" 21

I'm going to leave this thread now...

 

but I'll close by saying that any road that leads to Brock vs. Taker is the wrong one.

 

God...that match would be terrible.

 

Both guys rely on someone bumping for them...and neither guy can bump for the other.

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Guest RavishingRickRudo

RVDs promo at Barely Legal is hardly that of a Wwf upper card wrestler, let alone a Wwf champ. He is so monotonous, so bland. "I don't need these fuckin fans, see you on Monday" fucking great stuff...He cannot convey intensity or emotion, you know, those things which gets angles over...

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Guest Flyboy
He is so monotonous, so bland.

Well, so is Lance Storm, but he still cuts good promos.

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Guest Dmann2000

Here's how I'd have booked for SummerSlam

 

Rock vs RVD title match (RVD should've challenged Brock last night for his title slot,and won due to interference by the Undertaker)

 

Brock vs Undertaker (Brock wins)

 

A few weeks before SummerSlam RVD loses IC title to Benoit giving us:

 

Benoit vs Booker T- IC title

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Guest bps "The Truth" 21

Dammit...

 

Let's just leave this thread Flyboy.

 

 

"RVDs promo at Barely Legal is hardly that of a Wwf upper card wrestler, let alone a Wwf champ. He is so monotonous, so bland. "I don't need these fuckin fans, see you on Monday" fucking great stuff...He cannot convey intensity or emotion, you know, those things which gets angles over..."

 

um...

 

Taker promos: Boring and terrible

 

HHH promos: Boring and terrible

 

There's your Main Event style

 

And RVD's angles and matches are always over.

 

He pops the crowd in every promo...and his matches are have the hottest crowds in the company.

 

You have...no...point...

 

but it gets even lamer when Brock is the guy you think is better.

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Guest RavishingRickRudo

Jesus Christ, have you ever heard Ric Flair cut a promo?! Have you ever heard what a GOOD promo sounds like?!

 

Lances promos, much like RVD's are tolerable, but nothing about them gets you into a match or a feud, nothing about them are compelling.

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Guest Flyboy
Let's just leave this thread Flyboy.

Fine, fine. :)

 

But.. you used RIC FLAIR as an example of a good promo? If that's the case, then no one has that ability in the WWE right now.

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Guest bps "The Truth" 21

This thread is lame.

 

When the argument is pro Taker vs. Brock...a probable worst main event ever contender...

 

not to mention the logistical problems of Taker getting a new guy over (HAHAHAHAHAHAHA)

 

Jesus...if Brock and Taker is your idea of a WWE main event...

 

Then you must have hated Raw last night...

 

what with the workrate and all.

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Guest RavishingRickRudo

"RVDs promo at Barely Legal is hardly that of a Wwf upper card wrestler, let alone a Wwf champ. He is so monotonous, so bland. "I don't need these fuckin fans, see you on Monday" fucking great stuff...He cannot convey intensity or emotion, you know, those things which gets angles over..."

 

Taker promos: Boring and terrible

HHH promos: Boring and terrible

 

There's your Main Event style

 

Um no. The Main Event style I was alluding to was Rock and Austin. And shit, I'd take a Long Winded HHH promo over a RVD pot-induced promo any day, cause at the end of the day HHH at least gets the job done... Takers promos are not THAT bad, his ones directed toward Jeff Hardy were actually pretty good "Are you willing to die in that moment" is a great fucking line.

 

And RVD's angles and matches are always over.

 

He pops the crowd in every promo...and his matches are have the hottest crowds in the company.

 

Sorry, you are going to have to expand on this. A)There is a difference between popping an ECW crowd with innuendo about drugs and swearing and captivating tens of thousands in an actual arena. B)There is a difference in saying 'whoa' and 'cool' with circumstance in a Mid-Card feud and selling a Main Event PPV match. A BIG DIFFERENCE. It's sort of a 'separates men from the boys' kinda thing. C) RVD can pop a crowd in the confines of a 12 minute match, I'd like to see him go 20 minutes, no weapons, no spots and still hold the crowd.

 

You have...no...point...

 

Look harder

 

but it gets even lamer when Brock is the guy you think is better.

 

Again, Heyman is the guy who I know is better... See? You have to look harder.

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Guest RavishingRickRudo

I will sacrifice strong workrate for a captivating story. I am weird like that, ya know? Damn... Substance...

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Guest bps "The Truth" 21

Name me one RVD WWE promo that RVD failed to pop the crowd.

 

No wait...there isn't one.

 

Know why?

 

Cause anyone who is over can cut a promo.

 

It's not Shakespeare...it's angle progression.

 

And since the crowd is always into RVD's matches...he has a major leg up on Brock.

 

Heyman has been doing Brocks talking...guess what?

 

Matches still dead...Brock still unover.

 

Therefore...the Heyman thing is null and void.

 

Just because you personally like someone's promo style...doesn't mean it works...as Heyman has gotten nothing to stick to Brock.

 

Pointing at himself and saying his name pops the crowd.

 

Is it a stupid thing? MAybe.

 

But it is effective.

 

WHAT? was huge...and far dumber than R-V-D

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Guest CanadianChick

This is a little off topic...but why does Paul talk when we have heard Brock talk already? Also, I don't think that it is fair to say that Brock sucks....he hasn't been able to mat wrestle yet, that is probably his specialty. I am not saying that Brock should be in the main event, becasue I think that it is too soon, but let's not get too hasty in ssaying that he really sucks.

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