How come Austin is Superman?

[Guest Austin3164life]

Back to the topic, besides the fact that Hall has been upper Mid-card in his peak in WWF and WCW, it makes no sense (storyline wise) for Hall to go against Austin at Wrestlemania.  Their legacies have no contrast whatsoever.  Austin is (*arguably*) the most popular character ever, and has had one of the best careers, and Hall is a man who was widely popular for 94-95, and that's about it.  I noticed that the topic has turned into who is the most popular wrestler ever, Hogan or Austin.  Notice how dramatic the discussion has become, just for contemplating their drawing power.  It makes much more sense if Hogan went after Austin (*not The Rock*) primarilly, up to Wrestlemania, and then had a huge money match.  Notice how Hogan stated in his promo on Raw that he "WAS" the WWF and he put the WWF on the map.  THe Rock, no matter what he said for Survivor Series, isn't the kind of character that represents the WWF just by being himself.  A man who speaks in third person is obviously representing himself first and foremost.  Austin doesn't go around saying "I love the WWF", but he just does his job and does it well, and he gets to kick the bosses ass for fun, something we all would love to do.  Yes, Hogan definitely put the WWF on the map, no doubt about that.  But Austin made WWF THE MAP of the wrestling world in North America.  Hogan (for 5 years 85-90), was EXTREMELY popular, no question.  Austin (for about 4 years 97-01), took the WWF into the next millenium, and again changed North American wrestling.  The Rock is a popular figure, but he is today's Savage, I feel.  Rock couldn't even answer Hogan when Hogan boasted about merchandise and ticket sales.  Austin is the only man who can contend to that claim, and it makes much, much more sense if Austin was the one who was going head to head with Hogan.  It could be billed as a "Greatest Superstar Ever" match between the two.  Rock is a very popular wrestler these days, but he doesn't compare to Austin's or Hogan's drawing power, because he didn't usher in a new era in wrestling, he just rode the wave Austin created........I don't think we can decide who is more popular between Hogan and Austin, because they are two different eras.  It's a very, very arguable subject, and just mentioning it creates the aura for an excellent storytelling match.....

[Guest Xstasy]

Well, it's obvious who the Austin supporter in the crowd is... lol...

 

Austin is definately being booked as Superman, though, no question about it.  I was pissed off when he got out of the Angle Slam TWICE just before No Way Out!  Man that was a crappy thing to do to a guy like Kurt Angle.  And of course one kick-WHAT- STUNNER seals the deal.  They need to knock these guys down a peg.  This ain't the 80s anymore, the cartoony stuff just doesn't work.

[Guest Army Eye]

They will do Austin/Hogan too, don't worry.

[Guest Austin3164life]

Angle also kicked out of three Stunners this past summer.....they book all strong faces to be supermen, cause most marks these days want to see the heroes to NEVER get beaten.  It sucks, I know....

[Guest mastermind]

I still don't understand why some don't see what the wwf is doing. They are trying to put Rock as the heir apparent because Austin aint going to be here 5 years from now. If he is I can bet he won't be as over as he is now. The wwf knows Austin/Hogan is the big match to decide the top stars of the 80's and 90's, but right now they are going to put Rock as the Millennium Man. Don't be surprises to see Rock defeat Austin later this year or next year to put the exclamation mark on it.

 

I don't know I thought Austin wasn't in the wwf during the wwf's PEAK YEAR of the Attitude Era in the year 2000. The Rock and Triple H were headlining or did we forget that? Did we also forget that the ratings started to slide when Austin returned? Yes, the storylines probably had a hand in it, but it still remains the wwf started to slide when Austin returned in late 2000. Stop the revisionist history. Should we remember that the wwf was getting their ass kicked when Hogan turned heel in 1996 and it took them 2 years to recover? Hogan and the NWO was drawing stronger than Austin. I'm an Austin mark, but I do remember how things went in the 90's. Austin started to get to Hoganesque levels in 1998 and 1999. He was gone in 2000. Where is all this hype about Austin being the strong draw from 1996-2001?

 

Seriously let's not look at things through rose coloured glasses. Yeah, as Jim Ross said Austin SOLD MORE MERCHANDISE, but Hogan SOLD MORE TICKETS! Austin was cool, but Hogan was seen as the super champ fans paid to see defend his title. I gave the numbers Hogan made in the 80's on the old forum. He's still apart of the biggest audience to ever see wrestling on cable television. You see pitting Hogan/Austin as the passing of the torch match won't help in the long run as it would if they give the match to Rock. We know that Austin and Hogan made the wwf in the 80's and 90's respectively. Don't forget we ARE in a new millennium and the wwf will need both these guys to pass the torch to Rock. Let's really see how much these guys will give back to the wwf here.

 

As for Austin being superman I think it's needed for the NWO to get their comeuppance at times or you will drive fans away as they won't have anything to cheer for. It's needed. I also think it's Austin's egomania running wild just as much as Hogan/Hall/Nash. Oh yeah, Austin refusing to give the match people want to see in Hogan/Austin really shows he's a professional. I call a spade a spade. At the time in 1994 Austin WASN'T on Hogan's level in terms of main event drawing power. Yes, he had Hogan beat in skills, but for making a company money and making a company a top dog Austin had ditto.

 

I just felt I had to make these points after reading all this stuff. Another way to look at things is how can someone who PUT THE WWF ON THE MAP be inferior to the person who had to bring it back ON THE MAP. Don't forget Hogan also put wcw on the map as well because before his jump in 1994 no mainstream people even heard of the damn organization. Adding another huge stadium sell-out for Hogan let's not forget the Big Show in summer 1986 when the wwf got 73,000 fans in Toronto's Exhibition Stadium. Sometimes you got to look at things objectively you know. Sure Austin sold out the AstroDome, but he also had someone arguably on his level in Rock. He also had Undertaker promoted as Texas' own for the card. The only other sell-out crowd of that magnitude during Austin's days was once again a Texas show for Royal Rumble '97(with Texan HBK as world title challenger).

 

You can argue Hogan had Steamboat, Savage, and Andre as well, but to counterpoint he didn't do it in his hometown. Anyways, I just had to point out some really strange stuff like Austin being so superior to Hogan in drawing power and star status. The Rock thing is simply a transition for the wwf at the moment. If Hogan doesn't job to Rock I can guarantee you the wwf will be in serious trouble within the next two years because there would have been no one who got the rub from Hogan or Austin. The void would be steep as it was when Bret Hart got the reigns in 1993. Triple H aint cutting it I'm sorry and I guess Vince can still push Austin for the next 6-8 years if he wants.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

As far as all time drawing power...I wouldn't know.

 

But as far as today goes...Austin is the bigger draw NOW.

 

Proof on that is easy.

 

Stone Cold led the WWF past Hogan and the NWO in WCW.

 

So I don't care who drew more overall.

 

I know who draws more now.

[Guest Choken One]

Interesting debate here...Who drew better? In a whole...Hogan, sold the most tickets but it's Austin who got McMahon more money. I'd say it's a dead heat between those two, but I think Rock will go down as the most mainstream ever, TSK should make a good box office and bring more credibilty then Austin and Hogan have as Actors and Mainstream celebs.

 

  Can the Rock sell out 70,000 like Hogan did countless times? Likely not. Can Austin? Likely not. However, any combonation of the Three, will certaintly sell to the world.

 

Who REALLY put Vince McMahon's little organzation on the map? Hulk Hogan. No Question. Even though, some can argue that Steve Austin and Rock put them BACK on the map, there would have been no map to begin with, if not for the help of one, Hulk Hogan.

 

Let's face it, Hogan/Rock is huge for Mainstream and that's what Wrestle Mania is about, the biggest stars in Wrestling clashing in a EPIC battle, this likely will go down in the same anals with Hogan/Andre, Rock/Austin.

 

Will we get Austin/Hogan...yes, no doubt about it, but it won't be as major as Rock/Hogan, that's for sure...Austin does not cross over as well with Mainstream america like rocky does. Rock brings in, oddly enough, more attention then Austin would. Austin attracted people. Rock attracted Mainstream. Hogan brought them together 18 years ago and he will once again March 24th in Toronto Canada.

[Guest Boring_Liferik]

I think the reason Rocky and Hogan were stuck together is because the characters are so damn similar. If you really think about it they are: Stuck up, self centered asses, get cheered anyways, "movie stars", both like to use shit moves as finishers (God bless you leg drop and people's elbow) HORRIFICALLY TANNED (i'm telling you, Rock used to be pretty white) and finally a receding hair line. Austin and Hogan, other than the drawing thing, don't have much in common really. Neither do Hall and Austin frankly, but their characters are both jerks who punch alot.

[Guest Jim Ross]

I saw more Austin 3:16 shirts in everday settings in Austin's peak....then I saw Hogan shirts in his.

 

Austin may not make movies...but getting the whole country to wear your shirt is MUCH more impressive.

[Guest Choken One]

Austin had a catchy slogan and Tshirts back then for Hogan were not availble to mass markets like it is now for Austin...with the web and ShopZone.

[Guest Jim Ross]

Still...I never saw a ton of Brama Bull shirts when I went to the mall.

[Guest Choken One]

I never said he sold to the fans...he sold to Mainstream.

[Guest mastermind]

Still I did see a lot of NWO shirts on the streets and who was apart of the NWO? The shirt didn't change design every two weeks either to exploit its popularity.

[Guest Choken One]

True...Notice there were more NWO shirts on Raw/SMD THEN rock or austin. Know why? Because they all already owned the tshirt...

[Guest Brian]

Hogan sold the bg shows but I don't think his house sho numbers and such were as good as Ausin's. Plus, Rock and Austin have sold out the last two WrestleMania's (X-8 and X-7) which is pretty close. And considering the eras and how different the business is.

[Guest Big Poppa Smurf]

I can uderstand not liking Hogan but that still doesn't change what the guy accomplished and it shouldn't be diminished.

Give the devil his due.

[Guest oldschoolhero]

Whilst Hogan may very well have sold more tckets in his day, Austin-and his character-is responsible for bringing the WWF into a more modern era and thus giving it a more mainstream audience. So, while Hogan may have sold more tickets and therefore been more of a DIRECT draw, Austin could indirectly be considered the man responsible for such things as Tough Enough, Rocky's involvement with movies, SmackDown Records, etc. etc. I'd say that the mainstream market that Austin got the WWF access to has made a lot more money than Hogan ever did.

[Guest mastermind]

Rock and Austin sold out the SkyDome? Umm, the wwf didn't even announce a main event when the dome sold out. The wwf doesn't even announce the whole card until probably the beginning of Sunday Night Heat(which I really hate btw). As of right now WrestleMania sells out WrestleMania. Back in the day that was not so because the event didn't reach epic proportions until the original rosters became legendary. The wwf would hype the main event and the card for weeks, so the fans would know who was wrestling and what they were getting.

 

As for the house show thing. Honky Tonk Man made a great point awhile back. The wwf use to have A and B shows running on the same night. When Austin was at his peak the wwf didn't run multiple house shows. Hell, I remember here in Toronto we would get the wwf MONTHLY at Maple Leaf Gardens. Now they come like every season.

[Guest oldschoolhero]

Well, it's pointless trying to make direct comparisons between drawing powers, mainly because the business-and the the country-has changed so much since then. But Austin, from late '97 to late '99 was selling out shows and getting pops that Hogan NEVER got. So you cannot completely dismiss the man right off the bat.

[Guest mastermind]

So Austin is squarely responsible for the extra curricular stuff the wwf does like the XFL and SmackDown records? I thought that was simply money from the stockholders that the wwf used. He had something to do with it, but to say he brought in all that money for Vince is a bit false. Vince is using stockholder's monies for that stuff. RAW became live because of USA Network paying for the live editions until the wwf went public. Why did the wwf go public? They couldn't sign the big dogs or compete with wcw's bank account. Vince borrowed money in late '97 and banked it on Mike Tyson.

 

So the current empire was built on borrowed monies and not exactly Steve Austin. In 1984 and 1985 Vince used how OWN money to capitalize on Hogan's popularity for NBC SNME and WrestleMania. Give the devil his due. I would say Austin has the better shelf life character though hands down. Again, wcw was the company that brought wrestling back to the mainstream. If wcw didn't fumble the ball so damn bad and kept and pushed guys like Jericho, Goldberg, Benoit,(the jump in 2000 helped give the wwf a boost because maybe the slide would have started earlier for the wwf's ratings) etc the wwf wouldn't even had them in the grasp. A lot of stuff had to do with wcw's fumbling the ball. Attitude was done first with the NWO and ECW followed by Austin in the wwf. Don't forget how the wrestling world was in late 1996 and 1997.

[Guest mastermind]

BTW, I'm not dismissing Austin at all. No question he is the main reason for the wwf's coming back into the conscience of the fans worldwide. I'm just stating certain things how the wwf REALLY came back from being seen as the #2 promotion in 1996 to mid 1998 and yes some people still thought wcw was number 1 after WM 14. WM 14 was a marketing tool to promote Steve Austin as the top dog with the help of Mike Tyson.

[Guest nWo Hollywood]

Rock/Hogan may draw more mainstream attention, but they should not bill it as Legend vs Legend. Rock wouldn't be as popular as he is today if it wasn't for Austin.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

When I talk to my friends that don't like or watch wrestling...It's quite clear that they know Austin better than the Rock.

 

They (like many people who WATCH wrestling) Don't seem to take the Rock very seriously.  He's like a cartoon.  Somehow, Austin is still cool.

[Guest oldschoolhero]

Oh, I'm not doubting the drawing power of Hogan at all. He was the top draw for his time in the WWF (well, maybe not the last two years) and he brought in probably the greatest amounts of cash directly for the WWF. But without the success of Austin, without that crucial character, there would be no stockholders for the WWF. There would be no Wall Street deals for Vince. You're forgetting that's a recent thing.

 

Austin and Hogan are the two top draws in wrestling history, there is no question about it. But to compare them when they each were present at totally different eras of the business is ridiculous.

[Guest mastermind]

I still think you can compare Hogan/Austin simply because Hogan was IN Austin's era and did quite well for himself. Or did we forget that Hogan was on the opposite channel on Monday Nights? Hogan still drew in Austin's era when he was Hollywood Hogan, so imagine his prime in the new era. The problem with Hogan was he got stale as hell by 1990/1991 with his rhetoric. The wwf went public in 1999 a year into Austin's peak year of 1998. Just saying. Yeah, I'm not dissing Austin or his character, but the wwf came back to #1 because of certain circumstances which played to their favour such as wcw stinking up the joint and the wwf finally getting the chance to compete money wise with wcw. WCW got raped starting in 1999 with people like Jericho and The Giant jumping ship followed by the 2000 exodus.

 

BPS, you are right about Rock. People like the guy, but don't really take him as a serious WRESTLING threat as Steve Austin. He does seem more like a comedian most times. Good to see Austin getting out of that stupid circle. You also can't blame Rock too much when the wwf books him to lose his bog money matches all the time. I mean he has lost to Jericho how many times? Rock has lost how many times at the biggest show when the wwf gets their biggest attention of the year? How long was Rock's title reigns combined again? I always stated that this booking DOES in fact hurt him slowly, but surely. Some disagreed with me, but I think things speak for themselves.

[Guest oldschoolhero]

Then how about this: Biggest Drawing/Most Successful Face In History-Austin Or Hogan?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

It's always surprised me...but I've found that most non-fans are LESS tolerant of gimmicks than actual fans.

 

What I mean is:  Where as I can look at something like Goldust or whatever and say...I guess that's business.

 

They look at it and say...WHat the fuck is that.  Wrestling is gay.

 

That's why Austin worked.  Non-fans don't ALL want to discredit wrestling...they WANT to beleive in it.  A guy like Goldust hurts.  A guy like Austin helps.  They can beleive in him more.

 

As far as main stream appeal goes...Austin HAD to have it.

 

Remember when WWF pulled ahead in the ratings...the 2 shows were drawing combined numbers of like 11 every week.

 

Now the WWF draws 5 if lucky.

 

That's a TON of people that were turning in to see Austin...it's not like WCW initially lost that much of the ratings...just that the WWF found a whole new audiece.

[Guest me]

Interesting debate here...Who drew better? In a whole...Hogan, sold the most tickets but it's Austin who got McMahon more money. I'd say it's a dead heat between those two, but I think Rock will go down as the most mainstream ever, TSK should make a good box office and bring more credibilty then Austin and Hogan have as Actors and Mainstream celebs.

 

  Can the Rock sell out 70,000 like Hogan did countless times? Likely not. Can Austin? Likely not. However, any combonation of the Three, will certaintly sell to the world.

 

Who REALLY put Vince McMahon's little organzation on the map? Hulk Hogan. No Question. Even though, some can argue that Steve Austin and Rock put them BACK on the map, there would have been no map to begin with, if not for the help of one, Hulk Hogan.

 

Let's face it, Hogan/Rock is huge for Mainstream and that's what Wrestle Mania is about, the biggest stars in Wrestling clashing in a EPIC battle, this likely will go down in the same anals with Hogan/Andre, Rock/Austin.

 

Will we get Austin/Hogan...yes, no doubt about it, but it won't be as major as Rock/Hogan, that's for sure...Austin does not cross over as well with Mainstream america like rocky does. Rock brings in, oddly enough, more attention then Austin would. Austin attracted people. Rock attracted Mainstream. Hogan brought them together 18 years ago and he will once again March 24th in Toronto Canada.

likely will go down in the same anals with Hogan/Andre

 

Heh heh heh

 

I don't even wanna picture that, dude...

 

I guess they are going down the same anals...they'll both be shit.

 

 

 

 

P.S. It's 'annals.' Annals. Not anals.

[Guest goodhelmet]

bps is right. we might be able to tolerate the hurricane or billychuck( well maybe not) because we are used to seeing stupid shit in order to get ahold of some great wrestling.

Non-fans or fairweathers bonded to the Rock talking shit, Austin flipping you off, or even the NWO wreaking havoc in realistic sensical storylines. There is no character, including Austin, who appeals to the mainstream audience like they once did. That's why it is so important for the WWF to reinvent their mode of thinking and new storylines because the old guys are NOT going to create the necessary buzz needed for another boom to occur.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

ahem:

 

http://gwpwrestling.com/features/bps/first.html