Lance Storm is overrated

[Guest BionicRedneck]

No, it's like saying "I know RVD can't top Rey/Eddie because he's just not good enough." Plain and simple.

who knows how good RVD might be, you never know. Sometimes people just have freak matches.

 

Rocky has had about the same amount of great matches as Dean

 

I dunno about that

[Guest PlatypusFool]

IMO, Lance Storm is VERY overrated as a worker. True, he's never really had the opponents, but he's just SO bland in the ring that I can't really see him ever having a truly great match. What I see in Storm is a worker who knows all the theory to working a wrestling match 100% down, he knows it all. However, he uses this theory without any of the charisma of the great workers, with none of the character and none of the mannerisms.

 

Ric Flair was a dirty heel and a cheating coward, much like Storm can be at times, but he playes this character with so much more charisma than Lance ever will, and had his own heelish spots (like the begging in the corner followed with a low blow, for example) which seperated him from every other wrestler. Austin is another example, although he was only an average wrestler, his attitude, intensity and character got him over as the biggest face since Hulk Hogan.

 

Overall, Lance can work an average match at the drop of a hat, and is very versatile, but he has no idea how to do a great match. He will never be a great worker because he is bland, and simply does not have the 'x-factor' which makes for amazing wrestlers.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

What do you think this is FOOL, a 'Lance Storm is overrated' thread!?

 

I never compared Rey/RVD to Dean/Rocky. I compared difficulty of moves to the overall match.

 

Difficulty of moves is just one of many factors which made rey/eddie the better match. I haven't seen anything which suggests that RVD could pull off anything equal in difficulty, high flying or not. I would applaud a well performed and difficult transition just as much as a complicated spot.

 

Rocky has had about the same amount of great matches as Dean, but his will be remembered by the general public, where as Dean's will only remembered by Die-Hards, the Japanese, and Net Marks.

 

Um, this is relevant? 'Technically' Dean was far superior to the Rock. Every move was done to perfection, so crisp, so smooth, it's jaw dropping. Rock is wreckless, simple as that. His Somoan Drop is laughable and his 'greco-roman throw' is an abomination to wrestling. Dean is the superior in terms of performance of moves.

 

Dean hasn't had the high profile that Rock has had, can't say that it is entirely his fault either. Being a Vanilla Midget and all. Meanwhile Rock is a 3rd generational wrestler in a business run by a 3rd Generational promoter. I'll never take anything away from the Rock, he is wildly charismatic and his matches are all watchable; he deserves his success and the more power to him.

 

However, in comparing the two you have to have a suitable context. To just say 'who is the best wrestler' is to raise the question 'what is a good wrestler'...and we would be here all night debating it. If we were comparing matches, then we would have to take the top matches of each man and break them all down and discuss. Then there is the whole matter of 'critical success' vs 'financial success'...

 

And yes, you were being a dick about it.

 

That's your opinion

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

First thing I learned around here was to never admit something that wasn't approved by the community at large (HHH not being satan) or only remotely popular (RVD isn't just a spot machine).

 

Starting from the basics:

 

Rob Van Dam:

Height: 6'0"

Weight: 237 pounds

 

Rey Mysterio Jr:

Height: 5'3"

Weight: 140 pounds

 

There we have established that RVD is 7 inches taller, and 97 pounds heavier than Rey is. Now, according to physics, a shorter, lighter guy will be able to do more than a taller, heavier one. That explains why Rey can do the tope con hilo into a headscissors and Rob can't.

 

Rey Mysterio Jr vs Eddy Guerrero: October 26, 1997.

Rob Van Dam vs Eddy Guerrero: May 27, 2002

 

Here's a thought on the crowds: Eddy v Rey was in the middle of the wrestling boom. It was the hot thing. Eddy v RVD was in 2002..after the bottom has begun to fall out..and Chris Benoit, "Mister Hometown Hero" is at ringside. Maybe it's not true everywhere, but when a guy's from your town, and he's there..the crowd goes NUTS. Watching Eddy v RVD, the crowd is alive until Benoit comes out. They're booing the crap out of Eddy, and starting alternating RVD / Eddy Sucks / Holy Shit chants. Bringing Benoit out halfway through the match killed it. However, the crowd seems to get REALLY into it. They pop/boo every exchange, every spot. The crowd goes absolutely NUTS when RVD wins it. The crowd boos like hell when Eddy cheap-shots Van Dam. What was that.."holding them in the palm of their hand"?

 

It also happens that the Eddy/Van Dam program was 'over' at Judgement Day. Eddy was in the midst of a feud with Austin, who we all know went home. Eddy / Rey was at a PPV..and no doubt, in the middle of a feud. That makes somewhat of a difference.

 

Does Rey have more 'impressive' spots? That's arguable.

 

As an exciting 'on the edge of your seat' match..Eddy v RVD has it hands down. This crowd is NOT 'sitting on their hands' like you'd believe. Want to see for yourself? *points below* Want to

 

It seems to be an act of the Devil admitting someone in the WWE not named "Chris" can be a good worker, but screw it. RVD constantly entertains, even when put against a slug like Lesnar, or Taker. Rey got a good match out of Nash, granted. RVD gets a good match nearly every time he comes out..not just opponents like Chavo, or Tajiri.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I never said if RVD could do a tope con hilo into a flying head scissors, I just said he didn't do a move that difficult in his match vs. Guerrero, which he didn't. Difficulty of moves is a factor in what makes up a great match (not the motivating factor of course, but one that must be considered).

 

Rey and Eddie were foreign cruiserweights in 1997... NUFF SAID! (hell, I could make the point that the Wrestling Boom came in 98, but I won't.)

 

And they STILL GOT A STANDING OVATION! Why? Because it was a FANTASTIC MATCH.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

WCW fans also weren't turned into "WHAT?" shouting lemmings, either.

 

I could also make the point that Eddy is from El Paso, Texas, and Rey is from San Diego, California, but I won't.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I could make the point that both are billed from Mexico... But I just did. LWO 4 Life!

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

"WCW fans also weren't turned into "WHAT?" shouting lemmings, either."

 

No, they were turned into "2 SWEET!" shouting lemmings instead.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Rey Mysterio Jr vs Eddy Guerrero: October 26, 1997.

Rob Van Dam vs Eddy Guerrero: May 27, 2002

 

Here's a thought on the crowds: Eddy v Rey was in the middle of the wrestling boom. It was the hot thing. Eddy v RVD was in 2002..after the bottom has begun to fall out..and Chris Benoit, "Mister Hometown Hero" is at ringside. Maybe it's not true everywhere, but when a guy's from your town, and he's there..the crowd goes NUTS. Watching Eddy v RVD, the crowd is alive until Benoit comes out. They're booing the crap out of Eddy, and starting alternating RVD / Eddy Sucks / Holy Shit chants. Bringing Benoit out halfway through the match killed it. However, the crowd seems to get REALLY into it. They pop/boo every exchange, every spot. The crowd goes absolutely NUTS when RVD wins it. The crowd boos like hell when Eddy cheap-shots Van Dam. What was that.."holding them in the palm of their hand"?

 

It also happens that the Eddy/Van Dam program was 'over' at Judgement Day. Eddy was in the midst of a feud with Austin, who we all know went home. Eddy / Rey was at a PPV..and no doubt, in the middle of a feud. That makes somewhat of a difference.

 

Does Rey have more 'impressive' spots? That's arguable.

 

As an exciting 'on the edge of your seat' match..Eddy v RVD has it hands down. This crowd is NOT 'sitting on their hands' like you'd believe. Want to see for yourself? *points below* Want to

 

It seems to be an act of the Devil admitting someone in the WWE not named "Chris" can be a good worker, but screw it. RVD constantly entertains, even when put against a slug like Lesnar, or Taker. Rey got a good match out of Nash, granted. RVD gets a good match nearly every time he comes out..not just opponents like Chavo, or Tajiri.

 

A good crowd does not equall good match, so I don't think this really doesn't have that much of a point. I mean, "boom period"? If the match was good, the crowd would reflect it. You act as if matches that happen in a down period can't have heat, or something. As for RVD/Eddy having a lack of build-up, Rey/Eddy was a match that was not only given next to no build-up, but was given little respect from the company as far as worth on the card and was specifically put under large scruteny from top brass who thought it was a total waste of time.

 

Regardless, you can blame the crowd on whatever you want, if you watch the match, it's obviously not as good. One needs not compare frivalous arguements on circumstances like this and simply watch the match to understand why one is better than the other. Better transitions, better heat spots, better selling, more consistancy, pacing, attention to detail, it's all there. Eddy/RVD is, quite simply, a whole lot of wasted motions. It's the antithesis to Rey/Eddy, in terms of substance.

 

RVD is "good" in the sense that he consistantly provides good TV and has improved beyond the levle of several guys main-eventing right now. Now, if you want to compare current Rey to current RVD, one needs simply look at both their matches with Tajiri. Rey's was clearly better, with smarter moves, better use of transitions, and the little touches that make the difference between "good work and "good match."

 

One can argue that Rob hasn't had the best talent pool to work with, but after seeing him be out-worked by Eddy three times, and after watching his attempt with Benoit, I'm pretty sure he's not a great worker. Good, not great. Nope.

 

I just went and watched both matches.. Eddie/Rey... wow. I could EASILY see how you guys would say its a better match (because actually in terms IT IS), but I ENJOYED Eddie/RVD more.

 

You should have said that before. That pretty much settles the whole arguement.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Of course, being 'outworked by Eddy and Benoit' describes 90% of the roster. But that's not the point, is it?

 

After all, we know there can only be one opinion around here. Might as well conform. After all, I can't believe that it's the better match, even if it's what I think.

 

 

(walks off, murmuring the daily hymn to Benoit)

[Guest The Man in Blak]

Well, I guess if you didn't want to offer a rebuttal...then that's the best way to go about it.

 

Otherwise, I'd actually rank RVD #6 on my list - I likes his matches, and he's had some good matches with different people...but only great matches with great people.

 

That is my opinion, of course.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

It's called "giving up".

 

RVD may not be the 'greatest worker'..but in terms of elevation to the main event, he should be first in line. I'll say that much.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Of course, being 'outworked by Eddy and Benoit' describes 90% of the roster. But that's not the point, is it?

 

After all, we know there can only be one opinion around here. Might as well conform. After all, I can't believe that it's the better match, even if it's what I think.

 

 

(walks off, murmuring the daily hymn to Benoit)

Oh, for Christ's sake, go cry me a river. It's not that hard to argue a point, or even try to explain your reasoning. I say Rey/Taj was better than RVD/Taj, and therefore Rey is better. You revert to "let me have my own opinion, even if I can't offer logic behind it" arguement, which, by the way, I HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE IN MY LIFE.

 

Listen:

 

If you want to disagree with me, fine. If you want to argue the points that I have made, that's fine too. But if you feel like this kind of discusion has suddenly become below you, then don't waste my time. Fair enough?

[Guest LexLugerRules]

BOTTOM LINE: Lance Storm is overrated...