The title situation going into SummerSlam...

[Guest Brian]

"If they do go w/ Angle vs Mysterio, it's going to be a Catch 22. Will it be a great match? Probably. Then again, Mysterio is not 1997 Mysterio and Angle is not 1997 Eddy Guerrero so I don't expect a classic."

 

Mysterio's much better as a wrestler than he was back than.

 

I think Angle's jobbing. I doubt their going to kill Mysterio's momentum and until Angle decides against the Olympics, he will be jobbing to the younger guys, and getting the ocasional win to keep his heat.

[Guest mister foozel]

how do we know the ME isn't HHH vs. HBK?

 

That seems a lot more interesting than Rock/Brock, and since it seems to be HBK's last match it SHOULD be the main event.

[Guest CanadianChick]

how do we know the ME isn't HHH vs. HBK?

 

That seems a lot more interesting than Rock/Brock, and since it seems to be HBK's last match it SHOULD be the main event.

I think that it will be like how Hogan vs. Rock was at Wrestlemania...it might not be the last match, but it will be the main event, if ya know what I mean.

[Guest Brian]

"how do we know the ME isn't HHH vs. HBK?

 

That seems a lot more interesting than Rock/Brock, and since it seems to be HBK's last match it SHOULD be the main event. "

 

You must have missed RAW.

[Guest King Kurt]

I'm glad the un-americans are on Raw.

 

If they are to turn ANgle face (which they should do IMO) I don't want to see the catalyst be pro-Americana again.  

 

They need to establish Angle as a face on his own...without the over used patriotism angle.

 

He has the talent, charisma and mic skills to be a good face, I think...he just hasn't had a good shot at it.

Me and a friend of mine had a theory that that could be why they moved the UnAmericans to Raw.

 

And yeah...Angle could make a great face, but as it already has been said, they need to first free him of the "You suck!" chants.

I love Angle's music, but they're going to have to change it. Too easy to chant "You suck" to. It's going to be harder to cure than the What? chants.

what are you talking about?the crowd doesnt say 'you suck', they say 'huge cock'.its obvious, they love him.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

Mysterio is better then he was back in 1997? Jesus Christ, how is the weather in Uninformed-Land? Mysterio in 1997 will never be duplicated. The guy was THE best high flyer in the business and probably still is. His match with Eddy at Halloween Havoc 97 is one of the best WCW matches of all time, period. Rey 2002 is nothing compared to Rey 1997. That's not to say I don't dig Rey 2002, because I do. He'll just never be Rey 1997.

[Guest CanadianChick]

Mysterio is better then he was back in 1997? Jesus Christ, how is the weather in Uninformed-Land? Mysterio in 1997 will never be duplicated. The guy was THE best high flyer in the business and probably still is. His match with Eddy at Halloween Havoc 97 is one of the best WCW matches of all time, period. Rey 2002 is nothing compared to Rey 1997. That's not to say I don't dig Rey 2002, because I do. He'll just never be Rey 1997.

I don't think that he meant better high-flyer....I think he meant better wrestler. I loved '97 Ray, no doubt, but it seems to me that him right now could probably adapt more to a mat wrestling style.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

What's funny is that Angle was really over as a face and doing very well just feuding with Austin during the Invasion angle. For proof just look at the build to SS2001 and the heat for that match. So in a weird way, the 9/11 pro-american heat actually hurt him. Once people stopped cheering Kurt just because he wears the red-white-and-blue, they also forgot why they were cheering him before that as well.

[Guest Goodear]

Back on topic, I don't mind Brock playing the mind games, it actually gives Brock a little bit of a personality, which is better than him just being "Rarrrr Brock Smash!" I found the facial expressions he was giving while Rock was trapped in the crossface to be especially effective. It's also funny how many people seem to be complaining about Brock's wind based on some interviews, but not on his actual ring work.

[Guest cabbageboy]

In regards to the main event, it has to be Rock/Brock. The funny thing here is that I remember reading a HHH interview a while back and someone asked him about his match with Jericho being the last match at WM. He said something like "Rock and Hogan was an awesome match but the world title match should always be the main event." I hope they hold him to those words, because while Rock/Brock might not be amazing I think it'll at least be passable. HHH/Shawn could be a disaster.

[Guest RicFlairGlory]

how do we know the ME isn't HHH vs. HBK?

 

That seems a lot more interesting than Rock/Brock, and since it seems to be HBK's last match it SHOULD be the main event.

I think that it will be like how Hogan vs. Rock was at Wrestlemania...it might not be the last match, but it will be the main event, if ya know what I mean.

But you forget.... putting Jericho/HHH after Rock/Hogan completely KILLED the match.

 

HHH and Jericho had NO chance, the Crowd had peaked.

 

Jericho/HHH should have been the #2 from the top match. I mean cmon, if Bam Bam Bigelow/Lawrence Taylor can out-do a pretty heatless Championship match, the biggest Icon vs. Icon match in the history of WWE can certainly out-rank a very heatless Championship match.

[Guest Brian]

Mysterio 2002 is a much better wrestler. He's a stronger seller and knows how to paces his matches and highspots better. He's willing to hit the mat at any point. He has a much better grasp of psychology. Mysterio now will never be the same high flyer. But he's done so much more to his game in the last six, eight months that not only are going to extend his career but make him an incredibly better all-around wrestler. Rey is the mother fucking king right now.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

See, here's the thing with Mysterio and cruisers in general: People don't normally watch cruiser matches for psychology, they watch it because of the high flying, fast paced action. So far, Rey has shown zero indication that he can move as well or better then 1997 Rey, regardless of how well he "takes it to the mat" (whatever the fuck that means). I know he can do better then what he'd doing right now, not a whole lot more, but better none the less. BUT, he will never have the speed, agility or general flying ability he had in 1997. If I want to watch psychology filled matches, I'll put on some early 90's All Japan, if I want to watch some tech-filled mat wrestling, I'll watch some Regal vs Benoit. I watch cruiser matches for the flying, not to see somebody adapt to a "WWE style."

[Guest CanadianChick]

I watch cruiser matches for the flying, not to see somebody adapt to a "WWE style."

But Ray is adapting for is own health, not because its WWE style. Anyways, don't you think that having a match with pschology, mat wrestling AND high-flying would be good? Its like having the best of both worlds.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

Ok, explain to me the mat psychology that Rey is bringing to the ring now that he's adapted? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I just really want to know....

[Guest CanadianChick]

I think that right now, Rey seems better at pacing his matches and no just doing spot-to-spot. I say seems because I've only seen two matches of Rey so far. That isn't enough to judge. But from those two matches, he seems more diverse in style and I could really see him having a good match with Angle, especially since Angle can direct Rey in good mat wrestling.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

Angle can also carry a broomstick to a *** match, the fact that he's wrestling Rey only helps him. Rey has not diversified his arsenal, only toned it down. Cruiser matches are spotfests, plain and simple. They're about high flying and funky moves, and Rey has not shown me anything so far that I haven't seen him do before. I can't fathom why somebody would want to pace their matches when they're only given a 4 minute time frame to work. If I was Rey I'd want to give the fans as much to cheer for as I could in the 4 minutes alloted aka turn on the spots. Pacing in any match is fine, but when you only have 4 minutes to do it, pacing looks bad, especially in a match where fast paced action and high flying is the norm.

[Guest CanadianChick]

Angle can also carry a broomstick to a *** match, the fact that he's wrestling Rey only helps him. Rey has not diversified his arsenal, only toned it down. Cruiser matches are spotfests, plain and simple. They're about high flying and funky moves, and Rey has not shown me anything so far that I haven't seen him do before. I can't fathom why somebody would want to pace their matches when they're only given a 4 minute time frame to work. If I was Rey I'd want to give the fans as much to cheer for as I could in the 4 minutes alloted aka turn on the spots. Pacing in any match is fine, but when you only have 4 minutes to do it, pacing looks bad, especially in a match where fast paced action and high flying is the norm.

I totally see where your coming from concerning the pacing within 4 minutes. The thing is, I don't think Rey can do a spot fest night after night after night.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

No, he can't, which was my original point. The Rey we have now is not the Rey from 1996/97. Therefore, to expect Rey vs Angle to be Rey vs Eddy II is nuts. The match itself benefits nobody as well....

[Guest CanadianChick]

No, he can't, which was my original point. The Rey we have now is not the Rey from 1996/97. Therefore, to expect Rey vs Angle to be Rey vs Eddy II is nuts. The match itself benefits nobody as well....

I don't see that even if it was Rey of '97, how can anyone expect it to be Eddy vs. Rey II? Angle isn't Eddy; Eddy is better suited to fit Rey than Angle would be. Eddy and Rey have much more similar styles then Angle and Rey do.

[Guest Brian]

Plus Eddie's better than Angle.

 

Rey in IWA was a much more diverse wrestler. He'd carry mat wrestling in the beginning of a match, carry the psychology over into the middle part of the match, actually pace his highspots into the match. Hedck, only Benoit, Benoit, and maybe Regal, Knoble, and Angle really can do that, or have the ability to. His selling is head and hsoulders above where he once was. He's much, much better than he was before just doing his spots. And not just because he's saving himself, but because he's a much better, well-rounded worker. He's not going to get a chance to showcase that though.

 

Second point is that cruiser matches do not have to be spotfests. WCW shitted on their division by doing that. I want to see good fucking wrestling. Heck, I don't care if it's Ohtani and Samurai, that don't even have to lfy. If they go out there and get the time, than they can put on good shit. I don't give a fuck about the spots, they don't make the match.

 

Hogan is Angle's broomstick, and that was not close to ***, even **.

[Guest nWoScorpion]

Didn;t Scott Keith give the SD match between Hogan/Angle **1/4 or **3/4? Proof Angle is God.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The majority of cruiser fans watch it for the spots. They watch it for the high flying. I would not tune into Rey vs Kidman and expect it to Misawa vs Jumbo. I'd expect flying, cool moves and fast paced action.

 

Is Eddy better then Angle? That remains debateable. I'd say yes, but just barely. Eddy only has the rudo heel heat working for him and his ring prescence, aside from that he's pretty much on par with Angle. I'm sure if I think about it, there are categories that Angle could beat Eddy in.

 

WCW shitting on their division? The cruiserweight division is what kept WCW alive during the final 6 months of their run. I sure as fuck did not tune in to see Flair vs Goldberg or Steiner vs DDP, I tuned in to see Jung Dragons vs 3 Count or Rey vs Chavo.

 

To say that spots don't make the match is a little harsh. The TLC series' are some of the most popular WWE matches of all time, and Hardyz vs E and C is in most fans top 10 of all time.

 

Let's not be fools here, ok? WWE 2002 is not All Japan 1992. In a federation like the WWE, when 90% of the matches are devoid of psychology, don't take your spotfests for granted. I wouldn't turn into RAW hoping to see a psychology-laced mat contest, I'd be hoping to see a good match with some cool moves, at best. Maybe just one cool move. To expect good psychology from todays WWE is insanity.

 

The Lord

 

P.S- Wouldn't Ohtani and Samurai be considered more "junior heavyweights" then "cruisers." I've seen them both work with guys like Sasaki and Kojima, and those two arent cruisers.

[Guest DJ Jeff]

Getting back to the topic, rightfully, the Rock© vs. Lesnar should be the main event since it's for the WWE Undisputed Title. HHH vs. HBK should be the second from the last match. Remember, HHH vs. HBK isn't the Rock vs. Hogan from Wrestlemania 18. Therefore, who's to say it will be that great of a match to be the main event at the second biggest PPV in the WWE, SummerSlam? I'd much rather see HHH vs. HBK as the main event, but it's going to be the Rock© vs. Lesnar. As for Angle's opponent, it's more than likely going to be Mysterio.

[Guest Human Fly]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The majority of cruiser fans watch it for the spots. They watch it for the high flying. I would not tune into Rey vs Kidman and expect it to Misawa vs Jumbo. I'd expect flying, cool moves and fast paced action.

 

But Rey v. Angle isn't a CW match. I've read in places on the board where people are like "Angle is really a cruiser blah, blah, blah". Whatever, Angle might be a CW in legit fighting (I don't know my weight classes), but he will never be billed as such in Wrestling. If they had a "cruiser style" of match. The quality of it would suffer. Angle is too big to bump properly for Rey's cruiser offense. Rey can bring it now without relying on the high spot. I expect him to bump well for Angle in this one. I'm trying to get a visual in my head of Rey getting folded in half by an Angle Slam.

[Guest Brian]

"I've said it before and I'll say it again: The majority of cruiser fans watch it for the spots. They watch it for the high flying. I would not tune into Rey vs Kidman and expect it to Misawa vs Jumbo. I'd expect flying, cool moves and fast paced action."

 

The thing is is that the WWE cruiserweight division is still pretty to fresh to the fans and it can be so much more than just a bunch of highspots. So much more. With Knoble, a Benoit-type wrestler, Mysterio in his current state, Tajiri, and Chavo, this can be so much more than that.

 

"WCW shitting on their division? The cruiserweight division is what kept WCW alive during the final 6 months of their run. I sure as fuck did not tune in to see Flair vs Goldberg or Steiner vs DDP, I tuned in to see Jung Dragons vs 3 Count or Rey vs Chavo."

 

But you as a smakr weren't the main dmeographic. And their cruiserweight division up until the dying days was a shell of what it was, or oculd have been, in 1996-7. They had so many opportunities to actually shine amd breakout, especially when they had matches like Ultimo/Rey in 1996. But they choose to focus on working in that mold of highspot based matches, and that's why you get that. to me, whenever you have an opportunity to really set new standards and revolutionize and you just get complacent is shitting on the possibilities.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

All the truly great WCW cruiser matches happened when they had guys that could involve psychology and matwork in the matches, like Ultimo Dragon, Dean Malenko, Eddy Guerrero, Chris Benoit, etc.. So, mostly around 1996-1997.