Everybody will answer this question...

[Guest Dangerous A]

While I agree with the you on the embarassment of Angle with all the pants pulling down bullshit, couldn't he just ask to not have that done? I mean seriously, he's a grown ass man and if he doesn't want to do it, he could simply ask. Plus he was doing it at house shows before they did it on tv. I think it's just an example of Angle being a team player and doing whatever to entertain the fans. It wouldn't shock me at all if it was Angle's idea. He doesn't think like us, you know.

[Guest thebigjig]

Angle really took the worst burying I've sen in a long time during his feud with Trips around No Way Out. All those Smackdwons for weeks he would throw a couple of suplexes and then get his pants pulled down, pedigreed and he'd cry. That got really annoying.

Not to mention the really promising feud that he had with HHH when they were doing the "stephanie/Angle/HHH" love triangle story... that ended rather abruptly with no big payoff

[Guest Just call me Dan]

Yes it did. I was genuinely interested in that storyline. And if Angle were to refuse that, it would have been a couple more pedigrees. I doubt him speaking up against a scripted storyline involving Triple H would do him any good.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Some more guys Vince tried to put over but were snuffed.

 

Vader: Shawn wouldn't job to him at Summer Slam 1996

 

British Bulldog: Didn't capture fan intrest

 

Jarrett: Austin wouldn't put him over

 

Billy Gunn: See above

 

Bam Bam Bigelow: Hogan stopped his push

 

Mr. Perfect: See above

 

Jake Roberts: See above

[Guest thebigjig]

Mr. Perfect: See above

You know... now that I really think about it, that makes me sick to my stomach... It's amazing how Perfect could've been the next big thing back in the early 90's, and Hogan was the one to end his streak.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

It was worse than that. Hogan's friend Brutus Beefcake ended the streak at WM 6.

[Guest alfdogg]

How about:

 

Owen Hart: Austin & Shawn wouldn't work with him.

 

Which led to his feud with HHH where he did not score one single win, and eventually had to go back to the Blue Blazer. And we all know what happened from there.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Already said that buddy

[Guest Just call me Dan]

Austin was dropped on his head and has had relapses from that particular injury to this day. It just wasn't owen's time. Taker didn't work with Owen then and neither did Nash. Hell, Hall was never elevated like he should have been, and sometimes people just don't make it. If it weren't for that unfortunate accident, who knows where Owen would be today. All those guys with the exception of Taker and Hunter aren't even big players anymore.

[Guest alfdogg]

Austin was dropped on his head and has had relapses from that particular injury to this day.

Yeah, I was gonna say that, but then everyone would bitch me out saying I was just making excuses for Austin.

[Guest alfdogg]

Already said that buddy

Ah, so you did. Oh well, mine was more in-depth.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

At the time, Austin had every right to be selfish. He had been a victim of office politics since WCW, he got over on his character alone, now he has to work with the man who almost killed him?

 

NO!

[Guest Just call me Dan]

Seriously, that's not making excuses. Would you blame Bret if he could still wrestle and didn't want to work with Goldberg?

[Guest alfdogg]

No.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Blame Shawn, he owed to the Harts to job for Owen after what he helped do to Bret.

[Guest Just call me Dan]

But still, Shawn wasn't the only top-teir guy. there were plenty of guys up there who eventually would have had an opening to work a long program with Owen and help get him over. They obviously didn't.

[Guest converge241]

"Vader: Shawn wouldn't job to him at Summer Slam 1996

 

British Bulldog: Didn't capture fan intrest

 

Jarrett: Austin wouldn't put him over

 

Billy Gunn: See above

 

Bam Bam Bigelow: Hogan stopped his push

 

Mr. Perfect: See above

 

Jake Roberts: See above"

 

dont forget Jericho and Benoit right before during one of the 5 "big" pay-per-views.

 

Just lost all conviction midstream.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I really would like to know about this "Austin wouldn't put over Billy" arguement that has sprung up. I mean, people talk as if that had anything to do with Billy's failed main event push. Rock worked with him, and Rock had more going for him at the time than Austin did (he hadn't been a face for very long at that point) and the feud still bombed, and bombed horribly. Billy didn't have what it took, Austin or no Austin.

 

And yes, I think Austin had a right to refuse the feud with Owen. Shawn simply saw "Bret-light" and decided to pass him down to his budy Hunter who could get some heat off of pinning Owen all the time.

 

As for Bigjig's "paying dues" arguement, I think the general opinion is that the WWE is hypocritical for even preaching that shit to begin with, because when a "big guy" like Brock Lesnar comes along, suddenly the "paying of the dues" and "earning your spot" propoganda that Trips can't say enough of doesn't exist, and Brock is simply sent right to the top, while guys who have been with the company for years opon years waiting for a push stay stuck in the midcard because "they aren't ready yet." The resentment for Brock comes from that fact that the only reason he's being pushed is because he's a big guy, not because he's actually proven that he can get over, like others have. The point is, the WWE does whatever the hell it wants and then justifies it later with conflicting rules that change every time you hear them.

[Guest converge241]

actually they even screwed it up with Brock to an extent.

 

selling way too much for all the wrong people, and the whole ref stoppage was dropped

[Guest Just call me Dan]

I agree 100%. In these desparate times when business isn't booming and ratings are only a shadow of what they once where when Wresling was the big fad, Vince and company will do whatever they want and can do to spike the ratings. WCW did it with goldberg, and Vince sees stars when he looks at Brock. Complaining by wrestlers or even fans will do absolutely no good when it comes to pushes and opportunities. Vince is going to do whatever he wants whether we like it or not, and that just sucks, but it is damn true.

[Guest jester]

As has been observed many times before, there's a decline in mainstream attention to wrestling. There's probably nothing that can be done about it, until someone comes along who can appeal to both hardcore and casual wrestling fans.

 

Until then, the smart thing to do is to keep the diehard fans as happy as possible, so at least the core audience is happy. Concentrate on making the best possible show, and forget about trying to spike the rating with dumb ideas and bringing back wrestlers who had their last great match in 1989. Worry about not losing any more of the fans you have, and try to build future stars based on who the audience is responding to.

 

As for the ol' glass ceiling, I think that if guys like RVD, Angle, Jericho or Benoit cut a "Austin 3:16" level promo, that would be it. Their popularity would soar, and that would spell the end for the old guys clogging up the main event.

[Guest the pinjockey]

There is a difference between earning your way up and breaking through the glass ceiling as opposed to having a helicopter fly over it and just drop you off instead.

Does this have any relation to "paying your dues"? Because most here believe that having to do that is complete bullshit... unless it's someone new that they don't like, like Brock and Cena, then it's perfectly justifiable.

Sorry this is so far behind, I just got back from work.

 

I do not believe in all of the "paying your dues" ideas. But I do believe that there should be some justification for getting a main event slot at the number two ppv of the year other than he is big. If there were no other viable choices for the slot then I would not have a problem with this because you have to try something, but when there are viable choices it is just stupid. If they put half of the effort that they are putting into Brock's push into RVD or Angle they would not have to worry about what the ME is going to be performance wise and drawing wise. Instead Vince has a hard on for a big guy so overness and talent have nothing to do with a push.