HBK's still got it!

[Guest NazMistry]

No the story was still there. No matter how hard he tried he JUST COULDN'T STOP THE TAKER! Taker n sold everything he had and destroyed him before calling for the Tombstone and being decimated by Kane.

Yeah that was the second part of the story, but the part which people always point out, about Michaels not being able to escape was ruined when he ESCAPED the Cell.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

1. We care about in the ring, not backstage hissyfits

 

2. He backed up that ego by carrying anything with legs to *** or above from 95-97

 

1. When did I point out a backstage hissyfit? The matches that I critisized him for were matches where he threw temper tantrums in the ring. In both Vs. Bulldog (from Beware of the Dog) and Vs. Vader (from Summerslam '96) Shawn blatantly throws a tantrum in the ring and starts acting very unprofesional. I didn't even mention any of the backstage rubbish, I just think that a match where someone blatantly starts going into business for himself/herself is not deserving of ****-****1/2 stars. Not to mention that the matches weren't nearly as good as SlowChemical rated them, even ignoring the "exposing the business" aspect of Shawn's behavior, which really hurt those matches and, regardless of why he acted that way, was simply unnacceptable. Then again, silly me to question the sanity of the hapless fuck-wads who can't be bothered to WATCH THE MATCHES and understand the subject matter.

 

2. So being good in the ring justifies putting yourself above the company? I'd be interested to hear what you believe about Shawn's escapades, both in and out of the ring and whether those were justifiable or not because "he was a good worker."

 

How fairly can somebody who clearly *despises* HBK for his over-the-top, non-puro ring style and backstage rep rate a Shawn Michaels ma...?

 

I hardly despise anything. Well, I'm pretty close to being disgusted with this thread, but even that hasn't come out yet. Shawn's work in many matches annoys me, and people who make asinine coments about me disliking him because "he doesn't work a puro style" also annoy me. Because hey - Not like I pimped Foley/Michaels to high heaven in this thread, or anything. Not like I said it was a clear contender for MOTY. Not like I don't rank SS '95 Vs. Ramon as a clear contender for MOTY in that year as well. Nope, don't let facts get in the way of your little flame-bating session. Judging from the over-all response in this thread, most people obviously find it easier for to wip out the "puro-elitits Bret spympathizer" card instead of actually, you know, using facts. What the fuck ever.

 

This thread makes me want to swear off wrestling altogether.

 

I'm tempted to agree with you.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Not only was he an EXCELLENT worker. He was the most entertaining promo man the company had seen in years. Compare his stuff to Bret, Owen, Diesel, anyone. The in-ring stuff was wrong, but to come out here and character assasinate over two incidents is laughable at best. He was acrrying has-beens like Vader and davey Boy to classics. Oh and most objective viewers STILL give Shawn/Vader **** even after the temper tantrum.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Oh and Ricky is becoming increasingly upset at each post. It's really quite amusing to watch.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Not only was he an EXCELLENT worker. He was the most entertaining promo man the company had seen in years. Compare his stuff to Bret, Owen, Diesel, anyone.  The in-ring stuff was wrong, but to come out here and character assasinate over two incidents is laughable at best. He was acrrying has-beens like Vader and davey Boy to classics. Oh and most objective viewers STILL give Shawn/Vader **** even after the temper tantrum.

His promo work was hit-and-miss. The series of promos leading up to WM 12 were really terrible, and as were his "reinventing himself" promos in early '97. Shawn also had a habbit of making others look bad on the microphone. I was definitely a mark for his work in '97 as part of DX, though, just because it was so damn sleazy.

 

In regards to "Ricky's character assasination" I was merely pointing out that the ratings he gave those matches were way above what they should have been, merely because Shawn killed the realism by throwing hissy fits. I was discusing match quality, which seems to be a concept above the mind-set that you've fixed yourself in.

 

Vader/Shawn was not ****. Not only did the blown spot (and coinciding temper tantrum) kill the match flow, but the finishing sequence didn't come off as strongly as it should have because of the stupid overbooking where the restarted the match twice. The match was good for Vader at the time, but was little more than a well-done "strength Vs. agility" match with some Michaels prickery to make it amusing. I would be interested in what your definition of the word "objective" is, as I have trouble using that term in regards to SlowChemical, who rated Survivor Series '97 as a **** match, among other "oversights" in his ratings.

 

And I haven't seen any of Shawn's matches with Bulldog accept for Beware of the Dog. I would be interested to see the One Night Only and KOTR matches, since many people say those are quite good. I do have to remane skeptical, though, since many people also told me that Michaels/Taker was the '97 MOTY, something I didn't agree with at all after watching it. We'll see.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Oh and Ricky is becoming increasingly upset at each post. It's really quite amusing to watch.

Don't know who you're looking at, bud, I'm doing just fine. I enjoy discussing wrestling. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here, ya know?

 

No need to be an asshole.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Here's the deal.

 

Most people, not all, but most agree that from 94 on Michaels was a consummate showman whose working style was revolutionary, charisma was off the charts, interveiw skills were perfect, and who was constantly and consistantly intertaining.

 

In light of that, I can't bitch about a few mistakes he made.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Here's the deal.

 

Most people, not all, but most agree that from 94 on Michaels was a consummate showman whose working style was revolutionary, charisma was off the charts, interveiw skills were perfect, and who was constantly and consistantly intertaining.

 

In light of that, I can't bitch about a few mistakes he made.

While I wasn't a wrestling fan in '94, I have heard all the hype about his work back then, and I'm inclined to agree, from what I've seen. I'm mainly refering to his '96-'97 period, which I feel was quite good, but overrated in many ways.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Here's the deal.

 

Most people, not all, but most agree that from 94 on Michaels was a consummate showman whose working style was revolutionary, charisma was off the charts, interveiw skills were perfect, and who was constantly and consistantly intertaining.

 

In light of that, I can't bitch about a few mistakes he made.

While I wasn't a wrestling fan in '94, I have heard all the hype about his work back then, and I'm inclined to agree, from what I've seen. I'm mainly refering to his '96-'97 period, which I feel was quite good, but overrated in many ways.

Yeah man, you've gotta understand. Bret, Shawn, and Owen were the ONLY reasons to watch WWF till Austin in 96.

[Guest SlowChemical6]

Yeah man, you've gotta understand. Bret, Shawn, and Owen were the ONLY reasons to watch WWF till Austin in 96.

 

And until Undertaker and Mankind started beating the living shit out of each other every other month on pay-per-view. That was a great feud.

[Guest Brian]

"WrestleMania XII, vs. Bret Hart - I give this one *****. A lot of people try to dog this match because it was a clash of egos, but I agree with the WWE and the pro wrestling mags who nominated this 1996 MOTY."

 

This was a decent match. I mean, when you go forty-five minutes on the mat with no direction, no long-term selling, than try to throw everything out the window in the last fifteen minutes, which really make up the whole body of the match, than have an overtime where nothing else from the early match really matters, and devoid of even decent pacing in a match that needed a few falls to keep it together, not to mention a few falls to get over the psychology of the gimmick (that falls can come at anytime and that early falls aren't as important because there is much time to get them back). Especially with all the holds and the early perception that they were each working over body parts, and plus the fact that Shawn was being put over as being as good on the mat with Bret, wouldn't it have made alot of sense for Bret to say, submit Shawn early, Shawn to come back with a modified version of that hold later to submit Bret, and shawn to continue to escape the sharpshooter.

 

"King of the Ring 1997, vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin - Ah, there it is! HBK said in his RF shoot interview that he and Steve went out there and had "some sort of half-assed gimpy-kneed match". Well, once again, you know you're good when your half-assed matches are **** 1/4 WITH a screwy finish."

 

Well, shawn lied through his teeth through most of that interview but oh well. BTW, this is preneck injury Austin and was probably the best worker Shawn had to work with.

 

Austin was the top promo man in the company.

[Guest Just call me Dan]

I just want to know why the announcers didn't recognize Shawn's extended selling of the back after Sweet Chin Music and just kept focusing in the Rock and HHH. Was it a work? I think so, and it did good in showing that Shawn is putting it on the line and there is a possibility for a serious mistake. I just wish JR would have settled down and pointed that out.

[Guest bravesfan]

I just want to know why the announcers didn't recognize Shawn's extended selling of the back after Sweet Chin Music and just kept focusing in the Rock and HHH. Was it a work? I think so, and it did good in showing that Shawn is putting it on the line and there is a possibility for a serious mistake. I just wish JR would have settled down and pointed that out.

I don't know about it being a work. I mean, it was a great chance at it being a work, but there was no announcer shilling to make any confirmation.

 

Neither Lawler or Ross mentioned it (even in the heat of the moment) with all the action going on, while the cameraman kept the focus away from Shawn crawling in the corner.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

I just want to know why the announcers didn't recognize Shawn's extended selling of the back after Sweet Chin Music and just kept focusing in the Rock and HHH. Was it a work? I think so, and it did good in showing that Shawn is putting it on the line and there is a possibility for a serious mistake. I just wish JR would have settled down and pointed that out.

I doubt it's a work because if it was they would've said something. However, if it was really such a legitimately bad injury he wouldn't have been able to go over the top rope at all... then again, that also could have explained why he caught his foot on the rope, he was in too much pain to focus properly.