Griffey and Larkin

[Guest brownsdawg208]

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The Reds need to drop Griffey and Larkin for some pitching. These two are big egomaniacs, and I frankly think that the Rds don't really need Griffey's production with Dunn and the upcoming OFs they have. What they do need some goddamn pitching, and they sure as hell ain't paying for any. So why not get rid of two cranky, injury prone, and overrated veterens before they disappoint again this year and the rest of the league catches on. Plus, the two take up about $20 million, which is almost half Cincy's payroll.

 

    I see no reason why Cincy management should have to put up with Griffey's bullshit whining about not winning. Cry me a fuckin river. Pokey Reese is right. We won 96 games with Greg Vaughn, a clubhouse leader and consistent performer. Jr. is just a headcase and an egomaniac. Trust me, it's inevitable that this will happen, so I just hope the brass has enough balls to do it this season, before they end up with two banged up old fuckheads who nobody wants.

[Guest alkeiper]

Griffey and Barry Larkin wanted Young and Reese out: “They engineered the trades. Why do you think we're not there anymore?”

 

Yeah, Pokey Reese's trade had NOTHING to do with his .284 OBP.  Reese's non-productiveness has more to do with the Reds' failures than Griffey's whining ever will.  If Griffey's such a drag, then how come the '95 and '97 Mariners didn't crash and burn?  I seem to recall the Reds winning the '90 World Series despite the presence of Barry Larkin.  But go ahead.  Build a team around Pokey Reese and Dmitri Young!  Just imagine how many games the Pirates will win thanks to Pokey.  And won't those Tigers be swell with Dmitri Young in their lineup?  Reds finish at .500 at improve by 15 wins, DESPITE the cancerous presence of Griffey and Larkin :b

[Guest Choken One]

As a Native Cincy, I know this issue quite well, Alot of mixed reaction, alot of people share the same thoughts as Brownsdogg does and others feel like Alk, me? I'm torn in the middle as much as Jr. is a Ego manaic, he is worth more then Reese and Young at this moment...Cincy will never stop being a popular name in Cincy and Junior can belt 50 HOMERS and that will help him out. I still think undue media rests on Casey, this guy should have more attention, the smarks know him as a fellow Smark.

[Guest Scott Christ]

If you think Griffey is an egomaniac, then I don't know what you'd call Reese. Reese has underperformed his entire career, has nowhere close to lived up to the expectations put on him, was utter dead weight in their lineup, and still he and his agent negotiated like he was a star.

 

I'm not saying Griffey is perfect, because he's not. But, more or less, his "whining" can be attributed to the fact that the Reds basically guaranteed him a winner, and to try to accomplish that, they've done nothing to improve a terrible pitching staff. You can't win without at least respectable pitching, which the Reds are nowhere near.

 

Larkin is a veteran fan favorite who can still perform when he's healthy, so don't expect him to go anywhere.

 

In short, I think you may as well give up on wanting Griffey or Larkin to go anywhere, because they aren't. The front office wouldn't trade Griffey unless they could get back an ace starter, which they will not because any team in need of Griffey would obviously need their ace just as bad. And Larkin's a Red until he retires.

 

I suppose they could trade Adam Dunn or Austin Kearns. How about that?

 

The Reds' lineup is okay, but their pitching is terrible. And from all I can tell (which is a best guess), you're going to have to wait until they develop their own pitchers or sign free agents for that to change.

 

But, I will say this, stranger things have happened than the idea of this year's Reds team being competitive. The worst news is that three of the teams in their division happen to be bonafide playoff contenders.

[Guest Scott Christ]

And I'll tell you what, I wish the worst thing MY favorite team had to worry about was the attitude of one of the best players of the last decade. Cry ME a fucking river.

[Guest Judas14]

I'm not saying Griffey is perfect, because he's not. But, more or less, his "whining" can be attributed to the fact that the Reds basically guaranteed him a winner, and to try to accomplish that, they've done nothing to improve a terrible pitching staff. You can't win without at least respectable pitching, which the Reds are nowhere near.

Of course you are COMPLETELY ignoring several key factors as to why people rightfully call Jr a jerk:

 

1.) Jr moving to a place where the local media don't line up to suck Jr. off like they did in Seattle (where Griffey was a spoiled prince-type player mediawise)

 

2.) Jr. having to deal with the fact that there were other, just as famous and even more talented players in his division in the form of Jim Edmonds/Mark McGuire/Sammy Sosa and that he was no longer the sole attraction of the division...

 

Moving to Cincy proved that Griffy was a yet another in a long line of major league athletes who deep down are jerks who are only obsessed with being worshipped as some sort of pagan God by the media and locals. His reaction and his handling of how Jim Edmonds was doing better than he was and getting mopre attention for his great play in the media showed what a jerk he is deep down.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Come on Griffey's sucked since he's been on Cincinnati. Not god awful suck, but for Griffey, it's been a down 2 years. He did however show signs of returning to his old form by seasons end.

[Guest alkeiper]

People call Griffey a jerk because he had a bad year.  The next time he hits 50 home runs, you'll hear nothing but what a great guy he is.

[Guest Choken One]

2000-Hit 45 home runs.

2001-Missed intire first 5 months...Still hit 30 homers.

 

With Junior, Larkin, Dunn,Casey, and Boone in healthy condition, They had the bat but the pitching is still horrible...Our best pitcher is our Closer...so we may rely on The three run homer and our closer going with 2 innings.

 

REDS will be better this year...Trust me.

 

Just need to get ONE good pitcher...

[Guest Scott Christ]

1.) Jr moving to a place where the local media don't line up to suck Jr. off like they did in Seattle (where Griffey was a spoiled prince-type player mediawise)

 

He had a 40-homer "down year" and then had injury problems last year. As soon as he's back to hitting 50 homers, the Cincinnati media will be on their knees.

 

2.) Jr. having to deal with the fact that there were other, just as famous and even more talented players in his division in the form of Jim Edmonds/Mark McGuire/Sammy Sosa and that he was no longer the sole attraction of the division...

 

Jim Edmonds is not a better player than Ken Griffey Jr.

 

Overall, neither was McGwire, but I see where you're coming from and agree with you on that.

 

I don't know how many of you think hitting 460 homers with a career .296 average (162-game averages of .296-42-121) is easy or shouldn't be commended, but for those of you that do, I'm clueless as to what to tell you.

 

Moving to Cincy proved that Griffy was a yet another in a long line of major league athletes who deep down are jerks who are only obsessed with being worshipped as some sort of pagan God by the media and locals.

 

All it's proved is that he still wants to win, which apparently isn't high on the Reds' "to-do" list.

 

Griffey IS a primadonna, but I don't know what anyone expects. He's a celebrity, he's a pro athlete. I don't get why everyone gets so up-in-arms about athletes being jerks, though I think on the jerk scale, Ken Griffey Jr. ranks pretty far down behind the rash of rapists, murderers and abusive husbands that sports has seen in the last decade or so.

 

If the worst thing that Ken Griffey Jr. does is mope or give the media a wedgie, then he can join Barry Bonds in a special wing of the Hall of Fame built for exceptional players that made reporters cry.

 

Like Bonds, I think Griffey's desire to win a World Series and to perform well have been mistaken for (or spun into) being a bad person.

[Guest Brooding Genius]

There's a few reasons why Griffey hasn't really produced in Cincinnati yet.

 

1. National League pitching

 

Despite all the efforts of Idiot-in-Chief Bud Selig to make the AL and NL as uniform as possible (interleague play, no more league-specific umps, no more AL and NL league offices), there's still a different brand of baseball played in each league.  Junior hasn't gotten completely comfortable playing in the NL yet, and he might never be the same player that he was in Seattle.  For anyone who laughs at this, Andres Galarraga is the best example.  The guy was lost playing for the Rangers last year, gets dealt to the Giants and immediately starts hitting .300 again.

 

2. The home ballpark

 

Let's face facts: The Kingdome was an extraordinary hitters' park.  Visiting teams didn't derisively call it "The Pinball Machine" for nothing.  Between artificial turf, short dimensions with high outfield walls, and the perfect weather conditions that a dome can afford, the place was a slugger's dream come true and a pitcher's worst nightmare realized.

 

One could argue that Griffey, while being a very good hitter, had his statistics inflated by playing in the Kingdome for nearly 50% of his games.  It's no secret he loved playing there and that the move to Safeco Field was one of the reasons he wanted out of Seattle.  Now, playing most of his games at Riverfront/Cinergy, he's in a much more "fair" park and his numbers dropped accordingly.

 

3. The team around him

 

In Seattle, Griffey was protected in the order by Jay Buhner and Edgar Martinez.  In Cincinnati, he hits after the only other legitimate hitting threat, the oft-injured Barry Larkin.  He's "protected" by either Sean Casey or Dmitri Young.  Casey got off to a slow start last year and the Reds stunk the building up.  Young is a decent enough hitter, but nowhere near the multiple-time All-Star that Martinez is.

 

Questions or comments can be directed here.

[Guest Choken One]

Well, American Ball Park was built for Junior and that will be a hitter's paradise...So Junior will be able to rebound to great numbers...It's not like Cincy is in horrible shape like Pittsburgh, Tampa, Anahiem, Toronto, Montreal...we're just Mediorce.