WRESTLEMANIA X-7 vs. WRESTLEMANIA X-8?

[Guest bob_barron]

Angle v. Kane work well together show- I rank it about 3rd or 4th overall behind Rock/Hogan, Taker/Flair and about the same as HHH/Y2J

[Guest goodhelmet]

This thread has been suspiciously civil. Especially considering a fair amount of internet fans agree that X-7 is the best show ever.

 

I think X-8 has a lot of trouble stacking up against MOST PPV's from 2001 and heck even Wrestlemania 2000. When Angle vs. Kane was one of your top matches in terms of workrate then you're PPV is in trouble.

Exactly!!! Hell, Mania X8 hasn't even been the best show of the year. Royal Rumble would get the nod. To be honest, who has called X8 one of the best PPV's ever??? Who? NOt one person that I can recall. I know Rock-Hogan has been mentioned as a great moment, more in the vein of Andre-Hogan than Savage-Hogan, but the PPV as a whole just absolutely does not compare to the "great PPV's"!

 

As for Wrestlemania X, those wo feel the show is two great matches with a whole lotta crap in between are absolutely correct in thier assessment. Bret-Owen may be my favorite WWF match EVER and the ladder match is entertaining but it is no way a great PPV. Not in the least. For another evaluation of this card, read Mark Goodhart's review, taking a non-Canadian, completely unbiased look at this so-called great show...

 

http://thesmartmarks.com/artman/publish/ar...ticle_243.shtml

 

 

Now, as far as the other matches on X8.... Flair-TAker was an abomination. 15 minutes of punch-kick, flair juice and blown spots. the booking was horrible, the interference was not needed and the match ran way too long.

 

Jericho-HHH was ok but not a Mania main-event calibre match. simply depressing.

 

Rock-Hogan- a ton of heat. all flash, no substance.

 

I'd say Kane-Angle was the best match of the show without question.

[Guest JMTapes]

I rewatched X-7 a few weeks back and to me it just feels like the apex, the pinnacle of the late 90s wrestling/sports entertainment boom rolled into one package

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. -Jim

[Guest Olympic Slam]

This thread has been suspiciously civil. Especially considering a fair amount of internet fans agree that X-7 is the best show ever.

 

I think X-8 has a lot of trouble stacking up against MOST PPV's from 2001 and heck even Wrestlemania 2000. When Angle vs. Kane was one of your top matches in terms of workrate then you're PPV is in trouble.

Exactly!!! Hell, Mania X8 hasn't even been the best show of the year. Royal Rumble would get the nod.

 

I have to agree with Rumble getting the nod as best of 02' thus far. The thing about X-8 is that almost nothing from the card is relevant right now on August 22, 2002. With the exception of Hogan being a face, nothing has stayed the same. HHH is no longer champ and he's a heel, RVD lost the belt the next month, Booker is a face, DDP has retired.

 

Everything after Royal Rumble 2002 to King of the Ring just felt like a bad dream yah know? The n.w.o, Spike/Tazz were tag champs, lots of WEIRD stuff in between. If you use Royal Rumble as your starting point and skip everything to Judgement Day, treat the hell in a cell between HHH and Y2J as the main event, you'd feel like you missed nothing. A bad dream indeed

[Guest pete]

Wrestlemania 17 is the greatest pay per view ever. Rock/Austin, TLC 2, Angle/Benoit incredible match crappy finish if they would have gone with a clean finish it would have been a better match. Can't complain about the work, HHH/Taker were all great matches. The atmosphere was great. Wrestlemania 18 was an ok pay perview. Flair made taker look like a million bucks, the reaction to Hogan was phenomenal, only place that could have turned on Rock, jericho/HHH good match but they have had better matches. WM 18 is good but not fair to compare it to WM 17.

[Guest The Flying Dutchman]

On a whim last night, I watched the Hogan vs. Rock and UT vs. Ric Flair matches. UT/Flair was a great old school battle. It had a methodical pacing to it that worked very well and all of Flair's offense that he got in against the UT was perfectly believeable considering the ass whipping he was taking. Basically, Flair got offense in when he either cheated or on a reversal of UT's offense. He was never actually in charge at any one point but he still looked credible and UT remained looking like a monster. That was match was an excellent example of a Monster Heel match. Plus, Arn Anderson's spinebuster of UT was SWANK~!

 

As for Hogan/Rock...that match is still awesome to me. The wrestling was perfectly acceptable. Nothing spectacular, but the atmosphere was EPIC. You can really get into that match by just watching, but the subplots of Rock fighting his childhood hero who turned bad and the idea that the people were turning on the Rock in favor of Hogan were completely awesome. Plus, the look in Rock's eyes after Hogan shoved him down on the second grapple and told Rock to "Bring It"...it actually looked like the Rock thought he was in over his head. Awesome, awesome match...

[Guest bob_barron]

I watched HHH v. Y2J last night and I swear- it's actually a good match.

 

But X-7 is leaps better

[Guest ManKinnd]

One more point against those who put WMX so high: Consider Summerslam 2000. TLC was *****. Benoit/Jericho was DAMN close if not a full fledged *****. Then there was still time for an awesome main event in HHH/Angle/Rock, which was around ****. So Summerslam 2000 is better than WMX match quality wise. The only thing ten has is that historical significance.

[Guest Brian]

Yeah, Jericho/Trips is actually very decent.

 

There were minor inconsistancies in the story of Rock/Hogan, like Rock's short heel turn, and basically how much you have to suspend your disbelief to actually come up with Hogan channeling the crowd's energy to become this larger-than-life hero of Rock's, and everyone else's, childhood. It's really doesn't work for the majority of people as it takes leaps of faith.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

If TLC is five stars, Hart/Hart is six stars. Just totally smokes almost anything else the WWF has done, including Benoit/Jericho, and including any of the TLC matches. None of them are even close.

 

The TLC matches are fun, destructive, and generally exciting, but they rely heavilly on a gimick with no wrestling to hold things together. It's all cleverly planned out spots, and it works out tremendously, but it's hardly a compelling story that makes you root for any one individual guy. It's not six guys sacrificing themselves for the business, it's six guys sacrificing the business for themselves, because the entire concept on the match is dependant on increasingly ridiculous spots to make the match compelling. It's the pinacle of that sub-genre of match, but it's also the reason the WWE sucks so much right now.

 

Wrestlemania X is important because Michaels/Ramon popularized the entire sub-genre of ladder matches that made TLC possible, and Hart/Hart is simply the best WWF match, ever. No horribly-condensed 2/3 falls match, or botched three-way can top that.

[Guest bob_barron]

I totally agree with you Ricky on Bret v. Owen being best WWF match ever.

 

I really don't think HBK v. Razor was that influential today- Hardyz v. E-n-C from No Mercy paved the way for the overkill of the ladder.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Yes, but the entire concept of ladders wouldn't have been popular had it not been for Michaels/Ramon. That was the match (along with SS '95) that put them on the map. It's likely that Hardyz/E&C wouldn't have even happened had it not been for Michaels/Ramon.

[Guest goodhelmet]

and my original argument (and goodhart's) still stands. WM X had two great matches surrounded by a whole heaping helping of crap!!! it starts off great, I take an hour and a half piss break then watch the ladder match. X7, SS 2000, SS2001, Backlash 2000, Judgment Day 2000, NWO2001... were all better PPV's as a whole. Don't get me wrong, I've stated many times that Bret-Owen is my favorite WWF match of all time but it was on a miserable PPV.

[Guest bob_barron]

Summerslam 2000 has a ton of crap-

The whole first hour sucks

And the thong stinkface- icky

[Guest goodhelmet]

ok, i can agree that summerslam 2000 did have a weak first hour. road dogg- x-pac was viewable and i don't like either guy.

 

the rest was trash and shane-o mac jumped into a fishbowl. fair enough. the rest of the card was solid. take it off my list of necessary but for the other PPV's, my viewpoint still stands.

 

as for two ho's in thongs... i can always watch that!

[Guest bob_barron]

But one of them was Terri- yuck.

 

How about adding Canadian Stampede and Summerslam 98 to the list

[Guest goodhelmet]

i think 98 is over rated but certainly an enjoyable show

 

and canadian stampede is REALLY over rated!!! sasuke and TAKA tore down the house. Vader and Taker made me fall to sleep. HHH-Mankind was ..ok i guess. The main had enormous heat but wasn't a good match by any stretch of the imagination (where have i heard that before?). sorry but any match with goldust, the road warriors, ken shamrock AND jim neidhart cannot be ****, much less *****. That's just Canadian patriotism coming through!

[Guest NazMistry]

For me a Wrestlemania really stands or falls on it's World Championship matches. Cos really thats what Wrestlemania is really about. The Championship Main Event.

And that is why X7 beats X and X8. All had a good or memorable undercard, but X7 had the main event to top it all off.

[Guest bob_barron]

i think 98 is over rated but certainly an enjoyable show

 

and canadian stampede is REALLY over rated!!! sasuke and TAKA tore down the house. Vader and Taker made me fall to sleep. HHH-Mankind was ..ok i guess. The main had enormous heat but wasn't a good match by any stretch of the imagination (where have i heard that before?). sorry but any match with goldust, the road warriors, ken shamrock AND jim neidhart cannot be ****, much less *****. That's just Canadian patriotism coming through!

Well I'm a soon to be Canadian (3 days!) so I guess my patriotism shows.

 

I LOVE Summerslam 98- I'd rank it in my top 5 PPVs- I just love that show. There's only one bad match and everything else is in the pretty good-great range

[Guest goodhelmet]

ok bob, you need to watch the show (SS 98 and CS for that matter) again.

 

The Lions den match and the ladder match were rock solid. no complaints. both were well worked within the confines of their gimmicks. the jj-123 match AND d-lo- venis were so boring. the oddities and the tag title matches were abominations. the main was ok i guess but nothing you would want to see more than once. a good PPV, no doubt, but besides the two gimmick matches, nothing you would ever want to bother yourself with again, inc. the intergender match which was not a good match at all!!! watch it again!

[Guest bob_barron]

ok bob, you need to watch the show (SS 98 and CS for that matter) again.

 

The Lions den match and the ladder match were rock solid. no complaints. both were well worked within the confines of their gimmicks. the jj-123 match AND d-lo- venis were so boring. the oddities and the tag title matches were abominations. the main was ok i guess but nothing you would want to see more than once. a good PPV, no doubt, but besides the two gimmick matches, nothing you would ever want to bother yourself with again, inc. the intergender match which was not a good match at all!!! watch it again!

I'll watch Summerslam 98 again but I love the show- I've seen it three times. My ratings are always higher then anyone elses.

 

Oddities match sucks- no argument there.

 

X-Pac v. Jarrett is really good- a solid good match with 8,000 blind charge missed spots.

 

Val v. D-Lo is good but a bit long and a bullshit ending.

 

The main event has this big match feel to it, IMO and I've seen it a bunch of times.

 

The intergender match is a fun match- no complaints.

 

Canadian Stampede-

The opening match is very good

Vader v. Taker is a good big man match- Vader's nerve hold sucks though.

Main event is awesome- The crowd heat gets me into it.

 

Plus any match with Owen, Davey and Goldust can't be anything but great. :-)

[Guest Retro Rob]

I just watched SS98, as I will have a review of it up on thesmartmarks.com ::Mick Foley Thumbs Up::, either tonite or tomorrow morning. Judging from what both of you guys said, I've drawn this conclusion...Bob did overrate most of the matches, but I think that 'Helmet underrated most of the matches. I really don't want to give away too much of my upcoming review at thesmartmarks.com ::Mick Foley Thumbs Up::, so just check that out once I post it to hear more of my thoughts.

[Guest goodhelmet]

I just watched SS98, as I will have a review of it up on thesmartmarks.com ::Mick Foley Thumbs Up::, either tonite or tomorrow morning. Judging from what both of you guys said, I've drawn this conclusion...Bob did overrate most of the matches, but I think that 'Helmet underrated most of the matches. I really don't want to give away too much of my upcoming review at thesmartmarks.com ::Mick Foley Thumbs Up::, so just check that out once I post it to hear more of my thoughts.

DAMMIT ROB!!!! there is no middle ground!!!!

and actually, i didn't rate ANY of the matches!

[Guest BionicRedneck]

I did a SS 98 review last week, it is up at SmarkTalk.com

 

I accidently gave the Main Event *** when i meant to give it a bit lower. Ooops. Oh well, check it out, tell me what you think.

[Guest bob_barron]

Good review Bionic- even though I'd rate all the matches a wee bit higher (but that's just my weird love for this show)

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Yeah, its an enjoyable show, with the exception of Golga and Co.

[Guest goodhelmet]

ok, just read your review redneck... good job BUT i have a few comments. the thread is discussing GREAT PPV's!!!! By your own admission, the PPV had only one **** match. certainly not qualifying it for one of the greatest PPV's ever! i never said i disliked the show. i just felt it was over-rated and not one of the best of all time. bob even indicates he over-rates matches by giving them higher star raings than they deserve because ofhis tendency to 'mark out'.

[Guest Retro Rob]

i didn't rate ANY of the matches!

Maybe not with stars, but you did give your thoughts on most of them.

[Guest Austin3164life]

I'm all for great crowd heat, yet I don't understand how people going ballistic for a match makes the actual match ***-**** stars. Hogan/Rock (I was there) was really fun to witness, especially with people saying "Rocky Sucks" and popping wildly for Hogan, but the match itself was pretty crappy. Crowd heat, to me, is like a nice bonus if a match is good. Either crowd heat is a bonus after a good match, or it covers up a bad one. No matter how heated a match can be, if it has me asking "why did this happen, what's the point?" then it's not really a great match.

[Guest bob_barron]

I think Shamrock v. Owen is another ****er.

 

Helmet- What about RR00 and 01-

 

sure females hurt both of them but would you put them on your list you had up there?