Chris Benoit vs. Eddie Guerrero

[Guest Storm Tracker]

I love to watch both Eddie and Benoit. They're both great workers, but I would say that Eddie is more of a total package than Chris. The Rabid Wolverine is an awesome ass kicker in the ring, but Eddie entertains me in the ring and out of the ring. Actually. I like them as a tag team. Nothing gives me more joy than watching Eddie and Benoit double team Edge and stomp the monkey crap out of him.

[Guest BigTim2002]

I think that Benoit gets the following that he gets because he can just make you feel what the oppoent he faces feels. It's like, you see the Crossface, and then you can feel it. The Frog Splash is huge, and I'm telling you now, I love both of them the same, and they fucking RULE THE EARTH.

[Guest Army Eye]

I consider Eddy the better package. In terms of wrestling they are nearly equals, both amazingly good. But Eddy is also an excellent talker. Even with the latino heat accent I consider him one of the most entertaining interviews in the WWE in the last several months

 

like, that time a little while back when Eddy was in the ring, and Rock was at the entrance and they were talking back and forth, Eddy more than held his own, and Benoit just can't make anything happen in such a scenario.

[Guest Austin3164life]

While I respect Benoit and Eddy both on so many different levels, I'm more of a mark for Chris Benoit because there's something about him that just says "true badass".

[Guest Angle-plex]

I really don't think Benoit or Guerrero are that great.

 

Benoit has got the wrestling ability, but lacks the charisma and mic skills to be a main attraction. I consider Angle and Jericho to be just as good wrestlers as Benoit, and they have much more charisma and better mic skills.

 

Eddie is overrated too. He used to be a great wrestler (ECW and early WCW days), but he hasn't showed me anything in the last few months to show me he is one of the greatest. His mic skills are above average, but still not as good as many other WWE stars.

 

I like both of these guys, but I don't think either of them are great sports entertainers. I would probably pick Benoit as the better of the two, just because his matches are more entertaining.

[Guest HollywoodSpikeJenkins]

I would have to choose Benoit over Eddy.

 

 

They are both GODS to me. But it is the little things Benoit do that makes me want to be like him.

 

Like when he does a belly to back suplex (not german), he lifts them up slowly, then snaps back down. Or when he whips someone into the ropes, and he hits a knee lift, when it hits, he quickly turns to them, throwing his arms into the air or something. And the Swandive is GODLY to me.

 

 

 

AHHHH

 

 

I Mark For Benoit.

[Guest pete]

They are both great workers. They both can work lucha though Guerrero gets the edge. New Japan Junior I would have to go with Benoit when they were both working the style. Even though I think Guerrero can do it better now. WWE style I would go with Benoit. He is more believable putting the Rock down. Even though they are both eqaully exceptional workers. I think Guerrero is better on the stick as a heel when you want to boo him. But Benoit has that badass charisma. I still think Benoit is better because Lucha IMOP is the leat entertaining of the styles, When Eddie was a heel in WCW he probaly had more heat than almost about anyone.

[Guest SlowChemical6]

Eddie is obviously better on the stick.

 

They are both fucking phenomenal workers, but their ring styles are different. Eddie can do it all in the ring, whether it be the high-flying lucha libre style or pure mat wrestling. Benoit has more of a believable, physical style.

 

Benoit, in my opinion, has been more *consistently* good over the past 5-10 years than Eddie. Eddie has had slumps (i.e. 2000-2001), but Benoit is always a God.

[Guest Dames Edna]

Eddie and Benoit overated? C'mon man, what else are you asking for? They are the two best workers in the WWE right now. Kurt Angle is great and all, but he doesn't have close to the track record these two guys have. Benoit is a much better worker than Angle. His sheer intensity makes the match great. He unleashes more powerful and believable moves. His moves look like they hurt. He has charisma, and even mic skills. Though they aren't great, they add to the stigma that he just goes out their and kicks ass. Angle is good, but better than Benoit? Maybe in 10 years

 

And Eddie hasn't shown you anything good recently? Are you nuts? His best work has been in the past year, whether in the indies or the WWE. He has finally hit his stride with his charisma and connection with the crowd. He hasn't been given the chance to really have a breakout match of late, but he has played his role perfectly. Benoit and Guerrero have been the best WWE ensamble team since Owen and the Bulldog. Heck, they might be the strongest team, aside from Owen/Bulldog, since the Brain Busters. I'd understand people to diss Guerrero and Benoit because of their "status" on the internet, but to call them overated is wrong...in my opinion of course

 

PS. Eddie slumped in 2000/2001 because he had terrible opponants to work with, and a substance abuse problem. When Eddie is healthy, he is unreal

[Guest godthedog]

I really don't think Benoit or Guerrero are that great.

 

Benoit has got the wrestling ability, but lacks the charisma and mic skills to be a main attraction. I consider Angle and Jericho to be just as good wrestlers as Benoit, and they have much more charisma and better mic skills.

 

Eddie is overrated too. He used to be a great wrestler (ECW and early WCW days), but he hasn't showed me anything in the last few months to show me he is one of the greatest. His mic skills are above average, but still not as good as many other WWE stars.

 

I like both of these guys, but I don't think either of them are great sports entertainers. I would probably pick Benoit as the better of the two, just because his matches are more entertaining.

ah, my old friend, the 'benoit lacks charisma' argument. we meet again.

 

way too many people equate charisma with promo skills. benoit DOES lack promo skills, but in the ring he bleeds charisma. charisma isn't necessarily doing flashy things to get the crowd into a match (like the hulk-up or the rock's 'just bring it' taunt), although that is a part of it. charisma is everything you do in the ring to set you apart from everyone else that ISN'T a wrestling move. it's the little things you do to develop your character & make him unique. the best example i can think of in-ring charisma is from steve austin at survivor series 96 when he was about to put bret in the million dollar dream: there was this grin on his face that just said "this fucker is MINE." benoit isn't given weekly verbal blowjobs just because all his stuff looks good (although it does)--the attitude he exudes has a lot to do with it. it's in the timing, the body language, the facial expressions. except for the throat-cutting thing, benoit makes no wasted movements in the ring, and everything he does is crisp, precise and vicious. everything about him screams "i'm going to rip you apart and enjoy doing it." when he performs an offensive move, he puts in the effort to make it really look like he's trying to hurt the other guy (unlike, say, lance storm, whose stuff generally looks good but kind of sterile). when he's got somebody in the crossface, he has this fire in his eyes like he wants to kill the guy. it's little things like that.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I see some great arguments in the last couple posts, but honestly, I think that people have their minds made up no matter how hard anyone tries to convince. It happens, as people are biased creatures, and that will never EVER change. Right now we're seeing the same arguments reiterated over and over again. This is pretty much the same dispute going on in the NHB folder ('Which posters are hopeless marks?' thread). This "charisma" dispute will never change or die it seems.

[Guest Kid Kablam]

Right now, Benoit is because he isn't using as many stomps and kicks, like Guerrero is.  They're one-two right now in workrate in WWE, with Angle in #3.  But, they're all so close that they can interchange any moment.

Oh man, are Eddie and Benoit using wayyyyy too much brawling right now. Look at last night's heat segment on Rock and it's all kicking and punching and no actual wrestling. Where's the holds and suplexes?

I will agree that Benoit and Gurrerro were using too much punchy-kicky, but I've always felt that these two are actually two of the best brawlers that WWE has. They were playing a role of focusing on the rocks ribs and they did that. By the way, I enjoyed Moving right along this week. You pointed out some weaknesses in Benoit (Yes, he IS fallible) which I've always kinda been bothered by, specifically you focused on how the crossface is put over. I agree with that, although I always felt that the suplexes worked the neck so that would be softening up the neck. But the thing I like about Benoit in terms of psychology is that he will drag ANY move out if it fits the situation. Like he'll drag out a shoulder breaker if he has injured someone's shoulder, or he will drag out a knee crusher to work over the knee. You touch on thiswhen you mention how many moves you aren't discussing. Very good column, and I hope to see many more entries in the future.

[Guest Kid Kablam]

Eddie is obviously better on the stick.

 

They are both fucking phenomenal workers, but their ring styles are different. Eddie can do it all in the ring, whether it be the high-flying lucha libre style or pure mat wrestling. Benoit has more of a believable, physical style.

 

Benoit, in my opinion, has been more *consistently* good over the past 5-10 years than Eddie. Eddie has had slumps (i.e. 2000-2001), but Benoit is always a God.

Benoit used to be a high flyer though. When he started out he tried to be just like Dynamite. And for a while he suceeded (ok, maybe not to the level of Dynamite Kid, but he was a pretty damn good counterfite). But I think that he's been one of the few workers to successfully integrate his old style with WWE's brawling style. I was watching his match with Brad Armstrong from Clash of the Champions, and even though there was some obvious greeness, he elevated that match very well. There were actually boring chants at one point (and even I would have to agree at some points) but then Benoit dragged out some Shawn Michaels show stopping moves (and on one move in paticular I got Deja Vu) and just POPPED the crowd like nuts. I mean, they went from "Boooooooooring" chants to a huge ovation. THAT takes skill. But I will agree that now Eddie is better all around.

[Guest Angle-plex]

Eddie and Benoit overated? C'mon man, what else are you asking for? They are the two best workers in the WWE right now. Kurt Angle is great and all, but he doesn't have close to the track record these two guys have. Benoit is a much better worker than Angle. His sheer intensity makes the match great. He unleashes more powerful and believable moves. His moves look like they hurt. He has charisma, and even mic skills. Though they aren't great, they add to the stigma that he just goes out their and kicks ass. Angle is good, but better than Benoit? Maybe in 10 years

 

And Eddie hasn't shown you anything good recently? Are you nuts? His best work has been in the past year, whether in the indies or the WWE. He has finally hit his stride with his charisma and connection with the crowd. He hasn't been given the chance to really have a breakout match of late, but he has played his role perfectly. Benoit and Guerrero have been the best WWE ensamble team since Owen and the Bulldog. Heck, they might be the strongest team, aside from Owen/Bulldog, since the Brain Busters. I'd understand people to diss Guerrero and Benoit because of their "status" on the internet, but to call them overated is wrong...in my opinion of course

 

PS. Eddie slumped in 2000/2001 because he had terrible opponants to work with, and a substance abuse problem. When Eddie is healthy, he is unreal

I don't really think Angle or Jericho are better workers than Benoit. I just meant they are better overall, because they both have really good mic skills, something that Benoit sadly doesn't have. I agree that Benoit is a great wrestler that actually makes the moves look real, but I still wouldn't say he is "Loaded with Charisma". Sure, he may have in ring charisma, but he still doesn't have a lot of it. Guys like The Rock, Steve Austin, and even Hulk Hogan have much more in ring charisma then Benoit (And probably any other guy on the roster). He's a great wrestler, just not the best sports entertaier.

 

About Eddie: No, he hasn't shown me anything great in the past year. Just last night I was watching Super J' Cup 4, and I realized how great a wrestler Eddie was. Then I watched his match with Malenko in ECW. He used to be on of the best in the business. In recent months, he hasn't shown me anything close to the quality of those matches. Sure, he may not have had the best opponents, but if he's as great a wrestler as he is said to be, he should be able to carry anyone to a good match, like Benoit. His feud with Austin might have changed my mine, but we all know how that turned out.

 

I do call them overrated. Hell, when people call them GODS, I don't think you can get much more overrated than that. Are the great wrestlers? Yes, but in the WWE you have to be more than a great wrestler to main event.

[Guest MaxPower27]

My head says Guerrero, but Benoit is my favorite current wrestler, with Eddy and Kurt behind him.

 

I agree with godthedog, just the way that Benoit carries himself in the ring, out of the ring, and during the stupid little promos with Steph, is that he is ready, willing, and completely able to rip you limb from limb.

 

Malenko is up there, but he can't work with both heavy's and cruiser's. Malenko is one of the best cruisers ever, but Benoit and Eddy can work with Mysterio or turn around and pull ****1/2 out of Dwayne. They are just that good.

 

My vote goes to Benoit, by the hair on his chinny-chin-chin.

 

 

Eddy does have the better mullet, but (and I stole this from someone), he looks like Don Mattingly from the softball episode of "The Simpsons" when Burns told him "Mattingly! Shave those sideburns!" BWAHAHAHAHAHA

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Benoit is the better wrestler, but Eddy is an awesome wrestler himself and he has more charisma and mic skills than Benoit, so all-round i would have to say Eddy.

 

About Eddie: No, he hasn't shown me anything great in the past year

 

Well who has shown anything great this year in WWE? Eddy managed to get some very good matches out of RVD, and has looked solid pretty much everytime he has wrestled.

[Guest Dace59]

While Eddie has been compeard to Mr. Asai* himself in terms of mix of styles, he seems to have bo personality to me, his character has never struck me at all.

But Benoit has always seemed a character to me, and made me feel a connection to it.

 

Benoit seems to have the wider move range, with more impact and or technical skill, and looks like he does move damage when he goes up too.

He also seems a far more convinsing striker.

 

Eddie was better know under the mask, but Benoit just seems so much better still.

 

And I've always marked for the Crippler Cross Face.

 

 

* Ultimo Dragon

[Guest Dames Edna]

There is no way anyone can say Eddie hasn't had a good match since his return, or even in the past few months. Look at the God-like tags he has had with Benoit against guys like The Rock, Edge, Mysterio, ect. When given a chance, Eddie can rule the world. The only time he has failed with an oppertunity was with the Flair match - and I wouldn't necessarily blame Guerrero. If Jericho and Flair have a good match at Summerslam, I'll change my mind. If they don't, than Flair should do himself a favor and pack it in.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Look at the God-like tags he has had

 

God-like? I think you have read to many of Scott Keith's rants

 

Well, The Eddy/Flair match started OK, but there was no crowd reaction, and then they just started goin through the motions, with a "I can't be assed to wrestle" look on their faces.

 

Eddy is one of the finest wrestlers ever, its that simple.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

The "Benoit has no charisma" arguement is ridiculous by itself, because otherwise his matches wouldn't have any heat, and accept for the RVD match, I can't think of anything he's been a part of that has been lacking in the heat department. Charisma is being able to play a character and get it over with the crowd, either by being a prick in the ring or being a sympathetic babyface. Benoit has done both.

 

As for interviews, his skills are fine, and he only suffers from not being given many chances to show what he's got on the microphone. For example getting his balls chopped off by Steph last week wasn't exactly the ideal situation to come off as dangerous. In the serious heel promos he's done (with Flair, against Flair) he's been great. Certainly better than some recent promos we've been hearing from the supposed "top guys" like HHH, Taker, and Lesnar, who's promos are only carried by Heyman's skill to begin with. The "Benoit's mic skills aren't good enough to be part of the main event" is a tired, frivolous arguement.

 

As for Jericho and Angle being just as good, I wonder if some people posting on this thread actually watch wrestling matches or not, because to say Jericho's work has been underwelming is an understatement in itself. Angle has impressed, but even in their post-prime state, Benoit and Guererro are still at least at his levle.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

I agree, and Benoit and Guerrero are still better than Angle.

 

Oh, and btw Ricky, what happened to that Awesome Arn Anderson promo in your sig??

[Guest Kid Kablam]

I trhink thwe only problem is that Benoit's acting or charisma doesn't rate well with marks, which is the only reason that the "Not ME material argument can hold water." I've always loved his acting in the ring. Like when he gave John Cena a tounggue lashing during the six man tag. Even his promos with Steph have been good. The only problem is that Benoit isn't the kind of mass market guy that WWE wants right now. They want the over the top over acting thing. The want Brock Lesnar doing the "Look at me I'm a mutant freak" Brock Lesnar flex he's always doing on the adds. They want the people's eyebrow and all that shite, and Benoit doesn't have THAT kind of charisma, which is where the whole argument begins.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Well, it was large enough so that I couldn't put anything else in my signature, and I decided that it been in there long enough. I had wanted to post a link to where someone could download the audio file of the promo, but I can't find such a file anywhere.

 

Plus, I saw Akira Kurosawa's Sanjuro the other day and re-discovered my markdome for Toshiro Mifune. I can't help it, really.

[Guest Kid Kablam]

Gotta go with Mifune man. Gotta go with Mifune.