The WWE doesn't listen to Smarks

[Guest Dmann2000]

Anglesault, hypothetical question

 

You push Angle, you push him strong but for some reason he doesn't draw the people in. You push him even harder, they still don't respond. In fact some start to complain that they're tired of Angle on their TV all the time. They really like that Kane fella though.

 

But you're set in your ways to get Angle over. In fact you figure you'll job old Kane out to Angle, in the hopes that that'll cement him with the fans. But it doesn't work. And now the people are really getting pissed. And they let you know, in unflattering ways.

 

Now, do you wake up and pull the plug, or go on the defensive and shove Angle down their throats because they should "shut up and like your guy"

[Guest BionicRedneck]

He is the World Champion! he has been promoted as the "Next Big Thing". And you would throw away the push seemingly because your a Kurt Angle mark. Having Brock pushed as a monster for 6 months until he wins the belt, and then have him lose the belt and disapear? what a waste. Brock has only been on TV 6 months. Was Kurt having great matches after that time? Its too early for Brock definately, buts thats no reason to destroy his career.

 

Having Angle beat Brock would be nuts, IMO. Give the win to RVD. So what if Brock's already beat him.

[Guest Dmann2000]

It's not personal, it's business. Not over + not having good matches = Not employed.

Which is worth more, being over or good matches?

[Guest BionicRedneck]

You push Angle, you push him strong but for some reason he doesn't draw the people in. You push him even harder, they still don't respond. In fact some start to complain that they're tired of Angle on their TV all the time. They really like that Kane fella though.

 

Now, do you wake up and pull the plug, or go on the defensive and shove Angle down their throats because they should "shut up and like your guy"

Good Points.

 

I mean, whats to say Kurt would draw? If i'm not mistaken the ratings did drop during his first WWF title reign (I realize he was booked shit)

[Guest HossSauce]

It's not just the Internet smarks that can't stand Steph. The marks at the arenas don't want to see her either.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

It doesn't help when they can't decide if she is a face or a heel.

 

Plus her acting is horrible.

[Guest Dmann2000]

I feel sorry for Steph I really do, maybe it's cause I got picked on. But I'm not in that booking room, so I can't blame her for everything. I just can't

 

Maybe they should do a storyline where no one on Smackdown can stand Steph or respects her. At least it would mirror real life for you guys right?

[Guest Anglesault]

Anglesault, hypothetical question

 

You push Angle, you push him strong but for some reason he doesn't draw the people in. You push him even harder, they still don't respond. In fact some start to complain that they're tired of Angle on their TV all the time. They really like that Kane fella though.

 

But you're set in your ways to get Angle over. In fact you figure you'll job old Kane out to Angle, in the hopes that that'll cement him with the fans. But it doesn't work. And now the people are really getting pissed. And they let you know, in unflattering ways.

 

Now, do you wake up and pull the plug, or go on the defensive and shove Angle down their throats because they should "shut up and like your guy"

The fans aint buying it, he aint out there. How ever, that's not the case.

 

is the World Champion! he has been promoted as the "Next Big Thing". And you would throw away the push seemingly because your a Kurt Angle mark

 

Because he's not over, and having bad-horrible matches. Why is he world champ?

 

Having Brock pushed as a monster for 6 months until he wins the belt, and then have him lose the belt and disapear? what a waste.

 

Pushing Brock like a monster for six months didn't get him over. Why should I keep the belt on him for several more months?

 

Brock has only been on TV 6 months. Was Kurt having great matches after that time?

 

Yes. No Way Out 2000, WM 2000, Judgment Day, and a good majority of the raw and SD's around then too.

 

 

Which is worth more, being over or good matches?

 

You should be. You can get away with one or the other, though (Taker, Lance Storm)

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Pushing Brock like a monster for six months didn't get him over. Why should I keep the belt on him for several more months?

 

Yes. No Way Out 2000, WM 2000, Judgment Day, and a good majority of the raw and SD's around then too.

WM 2000 he was in the ring with Jericho and Benoit (who could do no wrong at that time) and JD 2000 he was in a 6 man tag. Brock's been in singles matches. In his first 6 months Angle was fucking around with Steve Blackman. Its not Brock's fault he has been pushed too soon.

 

He hasn't had many matches that had chance to be good if you think about it. Plus, his match against RVD at Vengeance wasn't horrible, and neither was his match at SummerSlam (both of those matches had a lot of heat).

 

If you took the belt of Brock now simply to promote your boy Angle (because you like him, and the win would do as much for him as it would, say, RVD) would be mad. To build Brock up as an unstoppable monster for 6 months, then in one night have Angle challenge, defeat and send packing back to OVW would be Vince Russo style nonesense.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Pushing Brock like a monster for six months didn't get him over. Why should I keep the belt on him for several more months?

 

Yes. No Way Out 2000, WM 2000, Judgment Day, and a good majority of the raw and SD's around then too.

WM 2000 he was in the ring with Jericho and Benoit (who could do no wrong at that time) and JD 2000 he was in a 6 man tag. Brock's been in singles matches. In his first 6 months Angle was fucking around with Steve Blackman. Its not Brock's fault he has been pushed too soon.

 

He hasn't had many matches that had chance to be good if you think about it. Plus, his match against RVD at Vengeance wasn't horrible, and neither was his match at SummerSlam (both of those matches had a lot of heat).

 

If you took the belt of Brock now simply to promote your boy Angle (because you like him, and the win would do as much for him as it would, say, RVD) would be mad. To build Brock up as an unstoppable monster for 6 months, then in one night have Angle challenge, defeat and send packing back to OVW would be Vince Russo style nonesense.

B. Redneck, Kurt was having EXCELLENT matches a few weeks after his debut. He was also SCARY over as a heel and getting the crowds to chant all manner of things just to piss him off.

 

Brock hasn't had a great match yet, and plus the guy doesn't get the kind of reaction you need to be World Champ.

 

RVD has ALREADY MADE the connection with the fans, assholes. I've been to a house show recently Saturday) and the crowd waited ALL NIGHT just for him and then popped huge for him. Hell, the people sitting next to me were singing along to his themesong. Oh and he's awesome on the stick. If the WWE would let him talk, that is.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

I must have missed these excellent matches a few weeks after his debut.

 

I never said Brock was having excellent matches.

 

I never said Brock was over enough to be world champ, its not my fault the WWE can't see that.

 

all I was saying was, after building him to this point, why throw it away to give Kurt Angle a win he doesn't need? Why make Brock go from monster to bitch in the space of a week. Wouldn't make Rock look very good would it?

 

Who are you calling ASSHOLES? and why?

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I must have missed these excellent matches a few weeks after his debut.

 

I never said Brock was having excellent matches.

 

I never said Brock was over enough to be world champ, its not my fault the WWE can't see that.

 

all I was saying was, after building him to this point, why throw it away to give Kurt Angle a win he doesn't need? Why make Brock go from monster to bitch in the space of a week. Wouldn't make Rock look very good would it?

 

Who are you calling ASSHOLES? and why?

If you missed them shame on you. Because pretty much every match he had was a lock to be *** stars at least on the free TV scale.

 

Well, I'm telling you point blank there is every reason in the world that Kurt should be champ and not Brock. It sucks.

 

See above.

 

I agree with this but I think Kurt should get it soon. Brock just isn't ready to be champ. He's far too bland. Sure he's big, but so is Albert. I think it's time to cut the losses, and have Brock drop the title at No Mercy to Kurt. Then let him devolop a character and get back in the title hunt.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

think it's time to cut the losses, and have Brock drop the title at No Mercy to Kurt. Then let him devolop a character and get back in the title hunt.

 

I don't have a problem with that, but Anglesault proposed that Angle challange, defeat and send Brock back to OVW all on next weeks SmackDown, and my argument to that is that it doesn't help anyone in the long run.

 

I like Kurt, but I think someone like RVD would benefit more from being the first man to beat Lesnar.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

think it's time to cut the losses, and have Brock drop the title at No Mercy to Kurt. Then let him devolop a character and get back in the title hunt.

 

I don't have a problem with that, but Anglesault proposed that Angle challange, defeat and send Brock back to OVW all on next weeks SmackDown, and my argument to that is that it doesn't help anyone in the long run.

 

I like Kurt, but I think someone like RVD would benefit more from being the first man to beat Lesnar.

We both know Anglesault is a bit overzealous when it comes to Kurt. I think you should take his comments with a grain of salt.

 

RVD would benifit from beating Brock, but not as much as if he defeated Kurt in the scenario proposed by Anglesault.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

It would need to be built right and RVD would need he working boots on (which hasn't been the case lately), but RVD/Angle fued could be awesome. Unfortunately it doesn't look to likely as WWE seems more interested in HHH, Test, Brock, Taker and Edge.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

...RVD/Angle fued could be awesome. Unfortunately it doesn't look to likely as WWE seems more interested in HHH, Test, Brock, Taker and Edge.

Now you know why AS and I are so pissed off.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

I think I have been misunderstood. I'm pissed off too. I'm no Brock mark. But I was arguing that I didn't feel AS way of getting the title of Brock was logical, which was the point of the discussion.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I think I have been misunderstood. I'm pissed off too. I'm no Brock mark. But I was arguing that I didn't feel AS way of getting the title of Brock was logical, which was the point of the discussion.

To be honest, no one does. But Brock shouldn't have the title so soon. Give him a win over Taker at Unforgiven, then have him drop it to Angle. Have Angle jump to RAW with the belt and everything is well and good again.

[Guest Ozymandias]

Saying "he shouldn't have gotten the title" is pointless because he already DOES have the title. Now, how would you make money off of that?

Look, I don't like Brock either and I find Angle infinately superior. But having him drop the belt so soon is fucking loony. A week ago it would've been different but the guy is a star now, there's just no way you can just move the belt to another guy after putting him over Rock & Hogan clean and pushing him so quickly. The guy has cred now and they need to let him keep the belt for a good while. There's just no fucking way in hell you can job the guy out and move him down the card, not after the kind of title push he got. It's called getting a return on your investments.

People seem to forget, but Vader wasn't over during HIS first title reign, yet giving him the belt turned out to be one of the only smart things WCW did back then. This isn't too much different...

 

Angle doesn't need it, he's over enough and when he's had the belt he hasn't always been better off anyways.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Look I dislike Brock too, but having him drop the belt so soon is fucking loony. A week ago it would've been different but the guy is a star now, there's just no way you can just move the belt to another guy after putting him over Rock & Hogan clean and pushing him so quickly. The guy has cred now and they need to let him keep the belt for a good while. There's just no fucking way in hell you can job the guy out and move him down the card, not after the kind of title push he got. It's called getting a return on your investments.

People seem to forget, but Vader wasn't over during HIS first title reign, yet giving him the belt turned out to be one of the only smart things WCW did back then. This isn't too much different...

 

Angle doesn't need it, he's over enough and when he's had the belt he hasn't always been better off anyways.

Vader was given the title just to get it off Ron Simmons.

 

 

Stick to the facts.

[Guest Ozymandias]

Vader was put over Sting cleanly (in spite of being new to the company and not having much heat) in July of 1992. That was his first title reign which is what I was talking about. Beating Ron Simmons was his 2nd title reign in December 1992.

 

Know what you're talking about before trying to snidely correct another.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Yup.

 

Vader defeated Sting to win the 1st one. I think the difference was that Vader could work. Plus, he was already an experienced wrestler by that point while Brock is basically a rookie.

[Guest Ozymandias]

I meant the comparison more like pushing a heatless newcomer to the title. Obviously Brock is no Early 90's-Vader (but then, who is?), but Vader didn't really become a franchise player until 1993.

 

Not that they should give Brock a long title reign and just stubbornly WAIT for him to get over, BUT he should have a good, well-booked one so that when/if he improves in the future he'll have huge cred in the fans eyes (like Vader did when he won the title a 2nd time) and be ready to be one of the top guys in the WWE.

 

It'd just be INSANE to throw away everything they've already done for him thusfar.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

It'd just be INSANE to throw away everything they've already done for him thusfar

 

That was pretty much my point, too

[Guest Ozymandias]

Heh, I know. I was arguing WITH you, not at you

[Guest BionicRedneck]

I know, and I was arguing with you, not at you

[Guest the pinjockey]

A reasonable way to get the belt off Brock.

 

Contains SD spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now that we know UT is the number one contender have UT jump back to Raw and Bischoff stole the title shot from SD. To counter Stephanie throws Angle into the match. At Unforgiven we have triple threat UT/Brock/Angle. At the end of the match Brock hits the F5 on Kurt. UT breaks up the pin attempt. They fight for a little and UT knocks Brock out of the ring. One olympic slam on a distracted UT later and we have a new Undisputed Champion. This can lead to a Brock/UT NON-TITLE feud where Brock can beat the UT to help build himself up more and gets the title on Kurt without stopping Brock's momentum (he still has not been pinned or submited.) Then we go to the Angle/RVD issue that I agree would work really well.

[Guest Dmann2000]

I wish they weren't doing Brock vs Undertaker so soon because that kills my idea of doing it at Wrestlemania where UT returns with Paul Bearer as the Deadman

[Guest the pinjockey]

I wish they weren't doing Brock vs Undertaker so soon because that kills my idea of doing it at Wrestlemania where UT returns with Paul Bearer as the Deadman

Well just go with my proposed idea than the month after have a Brock beat down on UT where Kane comes out and makes the save. Brock finds anyone I don't care and you have tag match at the Oct. PPV. Then SurSer you have Brock vs. UT one-on-one where Brock kills UT. Have him out til WM and you can do teaser promos along the way.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Now that we know UT is the number one contender have UT jump back to Raw and Bischoff stole the title shot from SD. To counter Stephanie throws Angle into the match. At Unforgiven we have triple threat UT/Brock/Angle. At the end of the match Brock hits the F5 on Kurt. UT breaks up the pin attempt. They fight for a little and UT knocks Brock out of the ring. One olympic slam on a distracted UT later and we have a new Undisputed Champion. This can lead to a Brock/UT NON-TITLE feud where Brock can beat the UT to help build himself up more and gets the title on Kurt without stopping Brock's momentum (he still has not been pinned or submited.) Then we go to the Angle/RVD issue that I agree would work really well.

Making Brock a one month wonder like everyone else aside from Jericho would damage his career just as bad as AS's proposal would. Like it or not, the Undisputed Title needs some stability, not another hotshotted title switch with the champ not even being involved in the decision.