A Serious Question

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Austin's gone. Rock's headed to Hollywood. HHH isn't what he was in 2000.

 

The three biggest WWE headliners are either gone, or half-assing it.

 

The Undertaker..an attraction, but never really a draw is still main eventing. Trips is slow, boring, and takes up lots of TV time. Brock Lesnar..let's not even start there.

 

In my mind, the three most easily buyable main eventers would be Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, and Rob Van Dam. Benoit dosen't have the charisma needed to be a top contender (almost top, but not quite.), Eddy would probably have the Jericho Problem (nobody wants to job), and Edge has yet to show that he can draw.

 

This isn't Fantasy Booking..but within the bounds of reality, what can they do to turn a product around that alternates between stale and decent?

 

Will Brock Lesnar be the man that saves the company, or will their "throw it against the wall and hope it sticks" mentality fail, yet again?

 

I know we hear this "Fire Test, Fire HHH, Fire Taker" stuff..but I'd like to see some actual discussion on the subject..

[Guest converge241]

sorry to be short, but im leaving for the day:

 

i dont know what they can do anymore... who do the guys you mention feud with?

can an audience be completley retrained to understand booking again?

can the writers actually understand good booking?

WCW couldnt do anyhing to save themselves.

WWE does have Vince though.. if the product falls into the 2's for ratings hell finally wake up and do.......something

 

i think they need to concentrate on the sports/wrestling side of it. The athleticism. But can they properly do that?

[Guest Brian]

I think the Brock thing is going to work as long as they fight it out. The person who beats Brock, as long as they are fresh (RVD? Face Angle?) is going to get rub no matter whether Brock's incredibly over or not. Becuase thye're sacrificing for him liek they should have been doing two years ago.

 

I think Eddie's a much more viable main eventer than Jericho or RVD. Jericho's just not motivated again, and it's pretty unfortunate.. RVD, who is exciting to wathc in the ring and gets a ton of heat, just won't cut it really when it comes to the WWE working new in-ring styles that are submission based. His mic work is okay but Eddie's can be far better. And Eddie is such a great wrestler.

 

They'll always keep Benoit near the top, even if they don't decide to fully push him. He makes all his opponents look good and delivers whenever he's called upon to wrestle (when fully healthy). And he looks pretty legitimate in the ring.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

To be perfectly honest, I don't see Jericho as a "top guy" anymore. He's been kinda unmotivated in his matches and promos lately and if you add the fact that he's the current WWE Doormat, I'm not sure if anybody's going to take him somewhat seriously ever again.

 

Also, to answer the second question, I don't think ANYBODY will be the one person to save the company. Sure, Angle and RVD are over, but I don't really consider them the dynamic characters that Rock and Austin were. Now, it's just my personal opinion, but I can't stand Van Dam's character because it seems he hardly ever has any emotion other than being laid back. He rarely ever gets angry and nothing ever fades him, so how am I supposed to give a damn about whether he wins or loses? With Angle, he works best as a face when he has a strong heel to play off of a la last year with Austin around SummerSlam. All the other times, he just looked lost and resorted to cheap pops. If his rumored face turn DOES happen, he's got to step up his game if the WWE fucks up the Brock reign any more then they've already done.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

I'm really biased where it comes to Eddy..because he's nothing short of awesome.

 

Benoit will be the guy that's never quite main event, but makes the main event guys look stellar. I think the guy is dull, but I respect his ability.

 

Angle will be the top guy in the buisness, hands down. If he ever gets the chance, and they let him run with it, he'll be there as long as his ability lets him.

 

RVD should, or will be there because of his popularity. Sure, he's not the best wrestler, but he gets a great reaction, and bumps like hell.

 

Jericho needs a new character, or a new program. They'll have to put a gun to somebody's head to make them job, because Y2J needs a win. A strong, convincing, CLEAN win. I believe he could be motivated again..just there's no need to when you can't beat Jeff Hardy, Faarooq, Rikishi, or Ric Flair.

 

IMO, Lesnar has the least chance of remaining at the ME level. The Monster character can only do so much, and last so long. Once the novelty wears off (*cough*) he's sunk.

[Guest Strike Force!]

Here's a framework to start something with:

 

Faces: Kurt Angle (he'll have to turn), Rob Van Dam, Undertaker, Booker T, Edge

 

Heels: Triple H, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Lance Storm,

The Rock (he'd have to turn), Lesnar.

 

That's something to start with there. I'm not real good at fantasy booking so I'm not sure how you would turn Angle face. I think Rock's heel turn would be real simple (something along the lines of the fans turning on him. Sort of a Bret Hart circa 1997 heel turn).

[Guest chirs3]

If Benoit gets a script that doesn't suck ("I'm gonna make him squeeeeal"), he'd be a great guy for a main event run.

 

Jericho can't be hotshotted back to the Main Event after the shit he's been put through recently. The fans won't buy it.

 

Angle, yes. Get him up there now.

 

Undertaker needs to be on his way out. I've grown to like him again most recently, but really he's got no reason to stay in the Title scene.

 

Rob Van Dam, if he'd work on his selling, would need a good Main Event fued not for the title before he could find a place in the title race.

 

Brock Lesnar is rapidly losing favor with me...

 

Edge needs to vary his moveset, and get a new finisher, and stop calling people dorks. Then he'll be ready, or close to it.

 

Guerrero has off and on promo skills, but has really impressed me in the ring lately (when he first showed up, I couldn't have cared less about him).

[Guest Brian]

But Brock has os much damn upside that's going to waste with the push, instead of being developed.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

As I've said before..

 

Potential is just that, potential. Nobody deserves a push based upon "Y'know..he could be great..". If it's SHOWN to be true, then he deserves it. As of now, he's shown nothing to deserve a Euro/IC belt, much less the World.

[Guest Brian]

If they don't get a push, they never get the chance to showcase their potential. If RVD hadn't gotten the initial push and had been thrown aside like Dreamer, would he be where he is now?

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Heels: Triple H, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Lance Storm,

The Rock (he'd have to turn), Lesnar.

Storm is not someone I see main eventing or being anywhere near that level. Maybe in WCW in 2000 when the company was going to hell in a handbasket, but now, Lance is really just a generic midcarder leading a stable of pussies. Add to the fact that Lance doesn't nesscessarily have the most impactful offense of the roster and I highly doubt he's moving any higher than a midcarder.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Jericho needs a new character, or a new program. They'll have to put a gun to somebody's head to make them job, because Y2J needs a win. A strong, convincing, CLEAN win. I believe he could be motivated again..just there's no need to when you can't beat Jeff Hardy, Faarooq, Rikishi, or Ric Flair.

Watching RAW on Monday (part of it), it irritates me so much to see Jericho treated that way. His mannerisms almost always stand out to me and if given a REAL CHANCE he'd get 10 times the cred he has now. He should have beaten Jeff Hardy cleanly. I sincerely doubt he'll ever get a solid push where he isn't cut off at the legs at one point or another. Pity.

[Guest Brian]

"Add to the fact that Lance doesn't nesscessarily have the most impactful offense of the roster"

 

Maybe if you're a fly. And he still might mis so as not to be "3/4 legit".

[Guest MrRant]

Stone Cold's return will turn it around.... and it will be coming and I have no doubt of that.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Oh and regarding Eddie:

 

I always thought that his gimmick hinders him somewhat. I don't know what it is - maybe to me it seems more of a caricature rather than a character, something that can't be taken seriously.

 

I detest it when he gets pinned in ridiculous situations though (fluke pin by RVD in KOTR qualifier, pinned by Bubba Bomb twice, fluke pin by Booker, fluke pin by Jeff Hardy in 6-man, pinned by Edge spear w/ bad shoulder, pinned by Rikishi superkick while standing on bad leg - UGH!!!). That must stop.

[Guest Brian]

Do you know what it is about the gimmick that hinders progress. The accent. And yet still he manages to get around it sometimes.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Thankfully though, he's not doing stuff like asking Chyna for help in studying for his GED.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Read my lips: NO MORE HOSSES!

 

Those persons mentioned all have the talent to main event. All save for Jericho, who has about as much of a chance of main eventing again as Benoit in a Kevin-Sullivan-booked fed--don't really have any personal issues getting in the way of being elevated. Angle has no flaws other than not really being taken seriously for now, RVD has gotten over on wrestling alone (and I don't buy that submission-based style crap either--WWE rarely commits to something like that) and has passable but improving mic skills. Benoit got better in his promos, and that video on Smackdown showed that ANYTHING HHH can do, he can do better (assuming it was adlibbed pretty much). Eddy's got mic skills and ring skills, with his size being his only downside.

 

Maybe an unexpected upside to HBK's return was to show that little guys CAN be credible main eventers. Hart and HBK put on good matches with tons of fair to middling wrestlers, and when against each other or other great workers, put on classics. Hart drew well and was an international favorite and he took time to develop his mic skills. HBK, some argued, was one of the lowest drawing champs...but in the mid-90's...face it, the booking was beyond shitty for the most part, so I don't think that was his fault.

 

And I wouldn't say "fire HHH" (Taker and Test I won't defend; Taker needs to retire...like..2-3 years ago and Test just sucks), but I'd tell him to shut the fuck up and I damn sure wouldn't have Stephanie booking or writing, since she has about as much sense for the business as Vince does for secondary business ventures. Of course, I'm not a senile Vince McMahon, and I don't have a big man fetish or incestuous desires either. HHH should justify his position or be dropped down to midcard status, battling RVD for the IC title, and putting him over clean. Or tapping out to the Crossface. Oh, and listen to Bischoff, H--QUIT WITH THE CHINLOCK ALREADY!!

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

I think Brock is finally starting to take off, although it's not really flying yet, if you know what I mean.

 

I won't deny that RVD is the next of those mega-faces in the vein of the Rock that fans will want to see. However, his ring work isn't all-around awesome, but the high spots are great. RVD can become what people mis-pegged Jeff Hardy as, the high-flying guy who can get to the top.

 

I think in terms of complete packages, Booker T fits the main event fold fine physically but needs to develop more non-catchphrase mic skills. He already has some phrases going and even a great motion/gesture with the Spinaroonie, and he's good when given a decent opponent.

 

I've seen Undertaker being the guy who puts over Brock for good before getting out of the business. Scrape away the Dead Man motif and Brock is now beginning the same squashfest kind of stuff Taker has been doing for years. Either way, I much prefer him as an "old school" guy who hates both faces and heels.

 

HHH... Well, let's not go there. He's pretty much got a lifetime pass for the High Road.

 

I don't think Austin will return. Ever. But if he does, this may be the heel turn that worked for him. Give him one night without a microphone, kicking the ass of absolutely everyone so that we all can make our pops, and then heel him. Hell, Vince has already buried the guy as being a coward, so marks probably aren't ready to accept him as Full-Time Face again anyway.

[Guest Will Scarlet]

Well, I think it is going to take a ton of long term planning and hard work for the WWF to get over this hump.

 

Can Brock Lesnar be the magic toxic and get the company out of this? That is a tough call. They have seemingly booked Brock terrible so far, but I am starting to like him better since his win against Hogan. I felt the Hogan win was a giant leap in the right direction. Hogan has been portrayed throughout his career as a monster killer, but this time he is much too old and was not only beaten, but was absolutely destroyed by the new monster on the block, as Brock can say he destroyed Hulkamania(At least for now.) Brock should have followed that up by beating Rikishi clean, as it had been earlier established that Brock could absolutely destroy Rikishi like he did during one of his first appearances in the WWF.

 

Brock seems to be on the right track at the moment though. He busted out some different moves against Matt Hardy, and I loved how he reversed the Twist of Fate into the F-5. I feel they took two steps back booking him against Taker, however. Taker is older and more broken down. I doubt he is going to take a double powerbomb, plus his selling is not the best. I would have had Brock face someone younger who can take more of his offense for his first title defense. Perhaps have Edge come out all pissed because Brock destroyed his hero(Hogan), and now he wants revenge or something. Edge could bump around for Brock and probably make him look more credible. It is one of the B PPV's as it is, so it is not like you would have to pull out a big main event. Taker can work if Brock ends up looking like a monster after the win, but, since they are not going to do that, it does not matter.

 

I would also think a format change would do them some good. 20 minute interviews are not needed anymore. They functioned as a way to get big stars more TV time during the Monday Night Wars, but those are over now, so put the 20 minutes towards the matches or towards getting new talent some more tv time. Triple H does not need 20 minutes for an interview. I feel HHH is the kind of guy who can say what he needs to say in 5-10 minutes. Guys like Rock and Austin were good at wasting 20 minutes for an interview. HHH is the kind of character who would so much better being short and to the point with interviews.

 

They also need to sort out what to do with stale midcarders. They seem to have done well putting Matt Hardy on Smackdown, and giving him a fresh character. They need to do that with a good portion of their midcard though, especially on Smackdown with guys like Mark Henry, Val Venis, D-Von, and Rikishi seemingly staler than day old bread. They also need to give characters to guys like Cena and Orton.

 

They should try some new guys out on a more serious basis, not push them for two weeks, then have them job the next three. Rico seems to be fresh, over, and can put on, at least, decent matches, why not try pushing him as a midcard heel? It could not hurt any.

 

Finally, I think they should try to use the wrestlers to best of the wrestler's abilities. Some guys are not cut out to be main eventers, but are great tag wrestlers or midcarders or what have you. Look at Billy Gunn, for instance. They took a guy who had a failed singles push, and found a place for him in a tag team with Chuck. He was able to get the team over, and became quite useful. Why not stick a Spike Dudley or a Big Show in a tag team role? Heck, Big Show was actually getting over when he teamed with Spike. Why not try to relive that magic and stick Big Show in a team with a guy with no direction who can play a good Ricky Morton? If you are not going to fire Big Show, at least try to use him in a role he was seemingly good at doing. That is all I can think up for the moment.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Benoit got better in his promos, and that video on Smackdown showed that ANYTHING HHH can do, he can do better (assuming it was adlibbed pretty much).

My curiosity is getting the better of me.

 

Can someone please tell me what they showed in that video?

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Wow... another serious question/thought thread with more HHHating... I never would have guessed.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Stone Cold's return will turn it around.... and it will be coming and I have no doubt of that.

 

I assume because Since Stone Cold was pushing for Guerrero and Benoit to be elevated.

 

However, when he comes back he'll still be in the WWE doghouse, and won't have a damn bit of influence. Shame to say...

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Stone Cold's return will turn it around.... and it will be coming and I have no doubt of that.

 

I assume because Since Stone Cold was pushing for Guerrero and Benoit to be elevated.

But he ended up ditching WWE leaving both high and dry. I'm still convinced that if they didn't have Benoit/Austin in the works, Benoit would have remained a face.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Wow... another serious question/thought thread with more HHHating... I never would have guessed.

And you think his position is justified? Do you think Stephanie is a good writer? Do we need twenty minutes of grunting and droning on? Does he put on good matches? Has he put over any young talent? Was he a terrific Undisputed Champion or not? Can he keep healthy?

 

If your answers were all "no," then why are you picking for people pointing out that he is a problem?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

IIRC (hell, it was yesterday - i loved it - and forget most of it as I was too busy marking the fuck out at the kick ass montage)

 

Benoit was talking about how he doesn't dance or sing and shit like that. It really got his character over well IMO and he was totally channelling arn anderson in those throat cutting motions.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Thanks, RRR. That's more info than any of the recaps I read around the 'net provided.

 

Hopefully they'll show it next week so I could see it for myself.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

As long as it's kept within reason..

 

HHH DOES eat up a lot of airtime, APO.

 

With the heels..

 

They need to win some. No heel but a Hoss or HHH heel gets clean wins. They're all humilliated or beaten down constantly. We don't need WCW heel wins all the time, but would it hurt to put Storm/Christian over some guys cleanly?

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

And you think his position is justified? Do you think Stephanie is a good writer? Do we need twenty minutes of grunting and droning on? Does he put on good matches? Has he put over any young talent? Was he a terrific Undisputed Champion or not? Can he keep healthy?

 

If your answers were all "no," then why are you picking for people pointing out that he is a problem?

Because it wasn't called for nor needed in this thread. Everybody's already heard the same shit over and over again, so restating it does NOTHING. I don't like HHH and really don't want to see him main eventing again anytime soon, but, I'm fucking tired of seeing the SAME rant coming out of a different person's mouth every other day. WE FUCKING GET IT ALREADY! It's been the same thing ever since he came back and quite frankly, I'm sick of it. Enough's enough, so just stick to the topic and shut the fuck up about Triple H until the thread actually deals with him. If you want to make threads about HHH that do nothing except bash him, then take it to NHB and flame him to you heart's content. Don't go and ruin good threads with more inane HHHating bullshit.

 

It's as simple as THAT.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

I assume because Since Stone Cold was pushing for Guerrero and Benoit to be elevated.

Wha? Austin was upset about his position on the card. So he wanted to use Eddy as a stepping stone to regain his Top Draw position.

 

While it's true that Austin/Eddy would put on great matches, it's obvious SCSA wasn't thinking in Eddy's best interest here. It would have likely been an obvious one-sided feud meant to just push Austin back into the Guaranteed Top-Card.