Greatest Wrestlers Of All Time

[Guest BionicRedneck]

This started over at DVDVR I believe. Anyway here are the results

 

Overall, I would say its fairly accurate.

[Guest AM The Kid]

Owen Hart should be around #12....

[Guest godthedog]

yay, flair's number one! i figured the dvdr guys would've picked kawada or tsuruta. steamboat, bret & thesz probably should've been ranked higher.

[Guest Midnight Express83]

List is really good with reason for people in their spots. Though my list of 5 greatest wrestlers are:

 

1: Ric Flair

2: Dynamite Kid

3: Shawn Michaels

4: Bret Hart

5: Liger

[Guest Kid Kablam]

I'm suprised Austin wasn't listed a bit higher, but I liked the list.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

#25 - Keji Mutoh? Puh-lease. Remember, kids, crack kills.

 

Some say "absence makes the mind grow fonder" and I think that sums up the overhyped nature of Keji's work just about perfectly. You see, I think people got so used to seeing him dog it like a mother-fucker that his really good matches (vs. Chono G1 '91 finals) seemed like total classics, and convinced people that he could be a high-grade worker if he wanted to be. I think that at certain times, this was fairly accurate, but it's generally just a bunch of crap to make excuses for a guy who has dogged more matches and stunk up more Dome shows than practically anyone else in history, and how the FUCK this guy gets ranked above Hashimoto still blows my mind to this day. This guy had ONE trully good match that was on levle with the kind of thing All Japan is well-known for (the afformentioned G1 finals in '91), spent practically the rest of his career half-assing it, and yet people still consider him one of the greats. Unbelievable. Just unbelievable.

 

In other news, why they decided to put Hokuto under Kobashi really puzzles me. Seriously. Ultimo Dragon, #18? Que? And while I'm as huge a Lyger fan as they come, I have to wonder if he trully deserves to be ranked that highly. I agree with whoever said Austin should have been higher, and I think Ohtani really got jipped, too.

 

I think guys who make lists like this need to decide what exactly they're ranking. I see lots of quotes in there about influence, but does influencial neccesarilly mean great? Was Bruiser Brody really THAT good? Without him, we might not have gotten Hansen, but was Brody himself really a great worker? They need to think about these things. Using their logic, Akira Maeda should be a lock for the list, because without him, we wouldn't have Nubihiko Takada. What about Ricky Chosyu? Most people wouldn't believe it, but he was a very good and influencial worker at one point. If Volk Han is going to be on there, why not Kiyoshi Tamura and Tsuyoshi Kohsaka, who were working the same style and had a match that was arguably better than anything Han ever did? I don't mean to be too critical, but these kinds of things usually require a great deal of thought, and it doesn't seem like ther proper amount was given to this effort.

 

Basically, I don't like this list much.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Yes! Liger's #2.

 

Damn you, Flair.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Keiji Mutoh is a very good wrestler. He has had more than 1 good match. The major problem is that he is a lazy prick. He should be on there, maybe lower though.

 

Bruiser Brody? I thought that myself.

 

Owen Hart is too high, IMO

 

Sorry, but Ricky Choshu has no place on that list

 

I like it overall. Being done by the DVDVR guys I was expecting Low Ki and stuff, so I was pleasently surprised.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Swap Harley with Hokuto, and raise Owen and Austin a bit and I don't have too many complaints. Volk Han? did I miss something?

[Guest gwf0704]

Eddie Guerrero's a little too high on that list but should be included.

 

Bruiser Brody was a very athletic big man who sold out arenas not only in Japan but in the US and Canada. Very over as an indestructable heel and fought all the big men from Abdullah the butcher, Kamala, Andre the Giant and One Man Gang to Ric Flair and Nick Bockwinkle for the world titles, Harley Race, The Road Warriors, The Von Erichs and many of the regions top stars. He was a big man that could actually wrestle such as arm bars, single leg takedowns and suplexes, but relied on the power moves due to his size. If anyone wants to see how good he was and how great Flair is you need to see the title match they had in Missouri (if its on tape that is) as it went 30 mins with each man gaining an advantage.

[Guest RazorxEDGE]

This list was obviously compiled by puro marks, that is my only complaint. Stone Cold Steve Austin at #36? Please.

 

I think there should be separate lists for North America and Japan.

[Guest RazorxEDGE]

Top 5 in North America:

 

1. Stone Cold Steve Austin

2. "Nature Boy" Ric Flair

3. Hulk Hogan

4. Bret "Hitman" Hart

5. "The Heartbreak Kid" Shawn Michaels

 

Honorable mentions go to The Dynamite Kid and The Undertaker.

[Guest godthedog]

hey, look, someone who complains about the puro marks says hogan is the 3rd greatest north american wrestler of all time.

[Guest Crippler15]

Razor Edge: The list was based on stuff like actual wrestling ability and influence with a little bit of popularity mixed in. The popularity part was kind of like the BCS used to award points for margin of victory. If we did one of these for North America there is no way Hulk Hogan would be number 3. He was an awful wrestler and IMO his influence diminshes day by day. My top 3 for North America looks like this: 1.Ric Flair

2.El Hijo Del Santo

3.Bret Hart

I didn't count Benoit and Dynamite Kid because some of their best matches happened in Japan. Vader's best match was also in Japan. I think these three were the 3 greatest wrestlers of all time to work a majority of their matches in North America

[Guest RazorxEDGE]

I was going by box office power over in-ring performance. My bad. If it was based on in-ring performance, then I wouldn't even put Ric Flair in my Top 5. He is the most overrated performer EVER, IMO.

 

Here is my revised list, in no order except for #1 and 2:

 

1. Shawn Michaels

2. Bret Hart

3. Owen Hart

4. Chris Benoit

5. Eddie Guerrero

6. Rey Mysterio Jr.

7. Kurt Angle

8. HHH (I hate the guy, but he had quite the run in 2000-2001...)

9. Steve Austin

10. Ricky Steamboat

[Guest RickyChosyu]

You're listing the Undertaker as one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, and you think the guys who made this list are biased? Did you READ the list? I'm sorry, it's just that the list that I saw had Rick Flair ranked as the best wrestler of all time, so I'd say "biased towards puro" is the last thing that should be brought up in a complaint list about this. They put Shawn Michaels at #23, and left Akira Taue completely off. Yep, that damn puro bias is EVERYWHERE.

 

Keiji Mutoh is a very good wrestler. He has had more than 1 good match. The major problem is that he is a lazy prick. He should be on there, maybe lower though. Sorry, but Ricky Choshu has no place on that list

 

Care to list all of these amazing matches I've yet to see? I was merely making a point that the only match Mutoh had that was even in the ballpark with the kind of thing All Japan was doing VERY frequently was the G1 Finals '91 w/ Chono. He showed signs of being good other times (had a particularly good match with Austin in '92) but most of the time, he was just lazy prick who hid behind a gimick and shit all over the wrestling business. He had some really good work splattered between all the crap, but mostly it was just a lot of crap (that includes his recent run). Therefore, he has no place being a list like this, ESPECIALLY above people like Ohtani, Yokota, Lioness, Austin, Windham, and Hashimoto (who was far more consistant, AND a bigger draw - HA!!!).

 

As for Chosyu, you're missing my point on this one too. If you want to bring up influence over the wrestling business, Chosyu was VERY influencial, and his entire run in All Japan helped shape the style that would come to define them for years and years to come. Now, he spent pretty much the entire 1990's as "everyone favorite fast-forward wrestler." However, does that nullify how great he was in his prime? I mean, hell, Mutoh spent more time sucking than almost anyone, and he's still on the list. Why does Ricky get cut off?

 

The question is, what are we rating here? Who sold the most gates? Who had the best matches? Who threw the midget the farthest at the state fair? I don't think anyone who made this list really knows, and you can't really make a good list if you don't even know what the subject matter is supposed to be.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Ricky Choshu changed wrestling everywhere.

 

In the early 80's, AJPW was running the hard hitting, brawling style that the NWA would catch up on in the mid to late 80's.

 

When CHoshu and Co came in to AJPW, they made the style speed up and by 1/28/86, the base of what made early to mid 1990's AJPW was set.

 

In 1983, when Choshu turned on Fujinami, he made the Native v Native feud the biggest draw in Japan and it still holds up today.

 

in 1996 as a booker genious, he sold out 3 Tokyo DOmes grossing more money than even WWWEEEEEEEEEEEEE can imagine.

 

Tim

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Exactly. If you want to talk draws, Chosyu is one of the biggest of all time, and not only that, he made huge draws out of guys like Mutoh, Hash, and Chono with his awesome booking. Those three probably owe their careers to him.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Oh Yeah, if we are talking draws and influence, then Ricky deserves a place (pretty fucking high too) but I thought it was based purely on wrestling. To be honest, I don't even know if the guys who did it knew what they were looking for.

[Guest BigTim2002]

It's all a matter of opinion. I'm puzzled as to how Misawa got put below Kawada, and how Owen Hart wasn't in the top 15 at least. I'm going to agree with them to an extent, that until he got to the WWF, Austin never really had a good match except for his two matches with Ricky Steamboat over the US Title. Owen was just so underappreciated and underrated, but don't justify it by saying he should have been in the top ten, because he wasn't on the same level as his brother. Now also, remember kids. They were talking about the wrestlers who were the greatest. What made the people on that list great?

 

48. Foley redefined hardcore wrestling in North America with his antics.

47. Murdoch could work almost any match into an A+ angle, and do it with style.

46. Dory was really good for a really long time. Very influential on Jumbo.

45. Steven Regal is one of the most underrated performers and a class act. In that ring, not many people can go to the mat like him, or brawl with him, for that matter.

44. Hash could bring the heat and put butts in the seats. Also, I find the fact that he is called an "Asskicking Elvis" hilarious.

43. If Ray Stevens started wrestling in the late 70s with Flair and Race, there would be no doubt that he could be as big a name as either of those two right now.

42. Hase is a top-level performer in the ring, and can work many different styles when he needs to.

41. Arn Anderson was one of the greatest tag wrestlers of all time, and is one my personal faves, as his spinebuster was the one move I marked for when he wrestled.

40. I think personally that they just needed to get a Ruskie in there with Han, since his shoot-style was very influential, and Rey Mysterio BROUGHT the Lucha style to the US. He still brings the good shit right now.

39. Savage was a better worker than Hogan, but never got to his peak because of his size. He upstaged him twice in two seperate Wrestlemanias, and I'll be damned to say he wasn't one of the greats.

38. Brody was one of the greatest heels of all time.

37. Thesz is the most influential man in the pre-modern era.

36. Austin was great for his WWF years, but was never given the chance in WCW, which hurt his spot on this list, a lot. Although, I would have had him in my top 15 at least.

35. Windham is a great worker. He brought the workrate to almost every match.

34. Sasuke was one of the greatest juniors of all time, and thanks to his moveset and his charisma, it got him to where he is today.

33. Lioness is considered to be one of the people that made Joshi large.

32. Dean was the ying to the yang of the others in the Cruiserweight division, trading his flying boots for his "I'm gonna ground your ass" boots, and making a lot of people happy while doing it.

31. Toyota was the workrate queen of the Joshi era in the late 80s-early 90s.

30. Nakano was the person who influenced all the big women in Joshi. Her run in the WWF against Blayze was a personal fave of mine.

29. Fujinami was the Japanese version of Dynamite.

28. If Owen was given the proper booking, he would been on par with Bret, and maybe even better, but I think Vince buried him for no reason, besides making a point to Bret. Which was stupid.

27. Ohtani is SUPER-DICK. He exudes charisma and can whoop your ass, all before he slaps that stupid look off your face.

26. Yokota was THE workrate queen of Joshi. She built the bridges for everyone that followed her. Probably as good or better than any other Joshi wrestler in terms of sheer workrate.

25. Blue Panther MADE the AAA, and Mutoh, although he is now just as lazy as ever, could bring it when he needed to, and you need to look no further than his good match with Geriatric Tenryu, and then his G-1 Climax '91 match with Chono, one of my favorites of all time.

24. Takada is one of the greatest shoot-style performers ever.

23. Michaels was the one person who could have been as good or better than Flair, but Kliq stuff and crazy bumps got in his way.

22. Tenryu is the ageless wonder. He is still putting on good matches in AJPW as we speak, and that's only because he can be such a great worker.

21. DiBiase is only known for the Million Dollar Man gimmick, but true DiBiase fans know that his best years were in the early 80s before the WWF picked him up.

20. Beyer was one of the smartest wrestlers in that ring...ever.

19. If Hansen was in NA, he'd be shit. Because of his matches with the Three Musketeers in AJPW, he became a legend. The greatest brawler AJPW has ever seen.

18. Dragon was so versatile that it wasn't even funny. One of my faves, but being a booker probably got him a bad reputation. His Super-J Cup with Lyger is one of the greatest Junior matches of all time.

17. Aja is the lady Vader. She is the best big woman in all of Japan.

16. Funk had the feud to end all feuds with Flair, and then went on to awe-inspire people until he was 53 years old. One of the true greats, and he redefined garbage wrestling into an art.

15. Hokuto was probably the greatest Joshi ever. Biggest draw, and tough as nails.

14. Santo era bueno, and was just as big a draw as Panther, and MAN could he go in that ring.

13. Vader is the greatest big man ever. No doubt in my mind.

12. Steamer had not one, not two, not three, but FOUR candidates for match of the decade in the 80s. Need I say more?

11. Kobashi in 1993 was like Flair in 89 when you talk Japan. One of the most innovative wrestlers in history.

10. Race is the only 60-year old guy I know who can take a shot in the nose, right now...and no-sell.

9. Bret was one of the greatest technical wrestlers until Vince screwed him. His WCW run was marred by politics and his Goldberg match, but inevitably, in the 90s he had three of the greatest matches anyone has ever seen.

8. Eddy would do anything in that ring to get the match and the story over. He drips charisma, can do any style, and has been great for over a decade. He is so fluid, and was influential in the way that little guys wrestle, period.

7. Misawa has had so many ****+ matches that it is unbelievable. Part of the greatest singles match in history, and the greatest tag match as well.

6. Benoit has been called "DK-Lite," but in my opinion, he is on his way to surpassing him. Greatest technical wrestler...period.

5. Dynamite is one the greatest wrestlers ever. Any style. Pick one. Dynamite + any style=****

4. Kawada IS Japanese strong style. Love it or leave it, he was the other half of the greatest singles match of all time, and part of the greatest tag match ever.

3. Jumbo is THE most versatile wrestler ever. Period. None greater. He had MOTDC in the 70s with Funk and Race, in the 80s with Tenryu, and in 1990 with Misawa. Find somebody right now who has done that in three different decades.

2. Lyger IS the personification of all small wrestlers. In every light heavyweight wrestler today, there is ONE thing of Lyger inside each and every one of them. Also, by my account, the only person besides Benoit and Dynamite to have ***** matches in both Japan and North America.

1. Flair...I need say no more than the fact that he has at LEAST 15 guaranteed ***** matches. Everything about him exudes pro wrestling.

 

Those are the reasons I saw. I don't know about you guys.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

I always think Misawa is underrated against the other top AJPW guys. I mean, Kawada may be a better worker, but who can argue with Misawa's amount of 5* matches?

 

I don't see what Owen Hart did to be placed in the top 15. He was a really entertaining wrestler but, I dunno...

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Oh Yeah, if we are talking draws and influence, then Ricky deserves a place (pretty fucking high too) but I thought it was based purely on wrestling. To be honest, I don't even know if the guys who did it knew what they were looking for.

Yeah, see, that's kind of a problem when you're making a "best of" list.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

I agree. It's really too hard to say, but all being considered I think they did OK.

 

I think the reason Taue is left of is because he isn't an obvious great worker, If you know what I mean. Same with Hash. People look at them and think "Fat Bastard" or whatever.

 

Just curious BigTim, which 15 Flair matches would you rate 5*?

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"On Misawa"

 

He is very underappreciated by many until you look farther into his work. I will be the first to bitch about how he wasn't able to work with Jun like Jumbo worked with him but as far as the "being the man character goes", he equaled what Jumbo did in my eyes. If he didn't establish that, the drama of the series vs. Kawada wouldn't have meant as much.

 

On my list, Misawa ranks higher than Dynamite Kid, Liger, and old man Flair.

 

Tim

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Umm....Austin didn't have any good matches before the WWF? What? His match with Pillman vs. Anderson/Flair at one of the clashes (can't remember which) was very good, as were many of his matches as part of the Blondes. He worked an awesome match with Mutoh in Japan in '92 and showed signs of being a top levle worker even then. The Steamboat series only served to cement that. Austin was a dynamite worker well before he came to the WWF, and, once again, if you want to talk influence, the Hollywood Blondes were WAY ahead of their time and built the formula for "cocky, arrogant tag team" perfectly, and it still holds up today.

 

As for Mutoh being able to "bring it when he needed to", I'm assuming that you believe he only HAD to wrestle well two times in his career? Bringing it when he felt like it may have served its purpose for Keji, but getting him on a list like this should require a little more effort, don't you think?

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Yeah, but Taue still had matches better than anything Shawn Michaels ever did. Personally, I think that's worth mentioning, since Shawn is in the top 25.

 

As for Hash, I think he's often forgotten because he was usually the "no nonsense" guy while Chono was doing his "charisma-driven" work and Mutoh was doing lots of shitty garbage matches as Muta. Truth be told, Hash is better than both of them, because he was constantly better than both. Chono/Mutoh may have been a great, great match, but Chono really wasn't a good worker after the neck injury and Mutoh we've already covered.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

I've got a bit of a quibble with Eddy finishing as high as he did, but other then that I'm pretty content.

 

My Top 5

 

1. Flair

2. Jumbo

3. Kawada

4. Benoit

5. Liger.

 

Mutoh has no fuckin place on that list. No place.

[EL DANDY~! 0]

So you want the list, eh? OK

 

5 ***** matches with Steamer, and yes I'm including their '94 matchup, because that brought a tear to my eye as I watched that. The fabled 5th ***** was a match that the two did in Japan back in 1982.

 

Number 6 is the I quit match with Terry Funk.

 

Number 7 is his Worldwide Special with Barry Windham

 

8 and 9 were Wargames I and II...

 

He had a ***** match with Race back in 80.

 

OK. Fine 10 matches, but it's STILL 10 ***** matches...only Misawa comes close.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Yeah, but Taue still had matches better than anything Shawn Michaels ever did. Personally, I think that's worth mentioning, since Shawn is in the top 25.

oh man, I don't know how to start arguing with this and still retain my composure.

 

Here's taue's moveset.

 

1.Big boot

2.Shitty chokeslam

3.Powerbomb

4.Basic wrestling holds.

 

He's recycled those four things over and over and over again. I mean, he dishes out shitty chokeslams like they were goin' out of style. He's a HORRIBLE bumper, which sticks out like a sore thumb in AJPW, and has only had good singles matches, IMO, with Misawa. and even those are a stretch. People credit him for being a "smart" wrestler...well, bully for him, but physically, he cannot begin to keep up with his contemporaries. Most people give him his props due to his 95 run. well, HHH had a pretty good run in 2000, should HE be considered one of the all-time greats?

 

Maybe there's some LSD induced effect on Taue that I haven't experienced yet, but to say Taue is better than Michaels? Maybe you just don't like North american wrestling, which is all well and good, no one's saying one style is better than the other, (at least I'm not) but Michaels is so superior to Taue in terms of athleticism, crowd response, bumping, character portrayal, and workrate that anyone who somehow thinks the contrary has been washing down Xanax and paint chips with Wild Turkey.

 

Here's 10 HBK matches off the top of my head that I consider infinitely better than ANY Taue singles match. In no particular order:

 

1.HBK vs. Jeff Jarrett-IYH 2, *****

2.HBK vs. Undertaker-HIAC I-97 Badd Blood ****3/4

3.HBK vs. Steve Austin-97 King of the Ring ****3/4

4.HBK vs. Diesel-INY: Good friends, better enemies. ****3/4

5.HBK vs. Bret Hart, Ironman, WM 12, ****1/2 (not my favorite, but still great)

6.HBK vs. Bret Hart, Survivor Series 92, ****1/2

7.HBK vs. Undertaker, Ground Zero 1997, ****1/2

8.HBK vs. Marty Jannetty, RAW 1993, ****1/2

9.HBK vs. Sid, 96 Survivor Series, ****3/4

10.HBK vs. Razor Ramon, Ladder match WM 10, ****3/4

 

Take also into account that Shawn isn't even in my top 5 favorite wrestlers ever. Hell, he's probably somewhere around 9 or 10, and that's just FAVORITE, he'd be in my teens if I were to say Greatest wrestlers ever.

 

Compared to that list that took me about 2 minutes, can you make a comparable one with Taue's singles matches? Also take into accound the fact that Shawn was tearing it up with opponents ranging from Bret and Owen to lumps like Sid, Nash, and Undertaker. Name 3 fabulous Taue singles matches not involving Kobashi, Kawada, or Misawa. Taue was carried, and it was an admirable job. Undertaker has been carried by Shawn and Bret. Hell, let's just cut to the chase and call him....

 

Undertaueker.

 

Fuming over.

 

NOW, if you want to call Taue a great tag worker, that, I'm a little more inclined to agree with, considering he hid his innumerable weaknesses VERY well in the Taue/Kawada vs. Misawa/Kobashi wars, which, when surrounded by great wrestlers, produces ***** classics. No argument from me there. Singles wise...well, I think I've summed up my feelings on

 

that.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Michaels has never had a better match than 9/10/95 Misawa v Taue and that match is hardly great just because of Misawa.

 

Want some more who are better workers than Michaels?

 

Takada

Yamazaki

Windham

Bobby Eaton

Tommy Rogers

Volk Han

Tamura

 

The list goes on and on............

 

Tim