Chris Benoit Face Turn

[Guest Anglesault]

Guerrero and Angle get humiliated every week, are viewed as jokes, and NEVER win. That can't go on much longer.

NEVER win? Come on - Angle wins all the time, not as often as before, but he still racks up winning streaks that are comprised of solid wins. Hell, even Eddie won on Smackdown.

 

You can say that they don't win as often as they should but saying they never win is a bit ridiculous.

 

Besides, Angle needs something to do if they want to save Lesnar/Angle for a bigger PPV.

Angle went approximately the whole summer (from KotR to Summerslam) with something like two wins. He lost to Mark Henry, he lost twice in one night, he had a brutal Summer. Since Summerslam, he is one and two. Angle RARELY wins. He has a tendency of winning PPV matches, though, if you noticed, his PPV wins are usually followed and lead into by either large losing streaks or "lose lose lose win, lose win lose lose lose win" type deals. An Example: Before the marke Henry match like a week or two before Summerslam , Angle's last win was John Cena's debut match.

[Guest Brian]

Against Dude Love, Kane, and Undertaker.

[Guest Anglesault]

Nah, I'd say Austin had Dude well in hand in that feud.

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

My memory may just be gone, but I don't remember Austin selling & Bumping too much back then with his hurt neck.

[Guest Zero_Cool]

At least Austin did some awesome blade jobs. Austin was an OK bumper, check out that Over the Edge ME with Dude back in 98. He did some impressive bumping...not even close to Dude's, but still.

[Guest HartFan86]

If you guys don't like Un-Americans vs. Benoit/Angle....what about Los Guerreros vs. Angle/Benoit? Something tells me they are gunna push for a heel vs. heel match at Unforgiven with both guys turning face. You guys might say that Angle/Benoit need to be in the main event, but get used to it fellas...You'll be seeing Taker, HHH and company in the M.E. long before Benoit/Angle/Jericho/etc. get in it again.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

Well, if the WWE is thinking of pushing Angle as a face, they're doing it in odd ways. In the past two weeks, Angle has cut heel promos and done heel things, thus making Benoit the face by default. Of course, regardless of who wins, all of this is negated by one simple thing:

 

Smackdown, October 15th, Air Canada Centre, Toronto.

 

Benoit will be a GOD there. I guaran-fuckin-tee it. He hasn't wrestled on TV in Toronto ever, to my knowledge. His last match there was a WWE house show in April of 2001. The fans want their Benoit. If the WWE was ever going to try and put Benoit over huge as a face, they'd do it in Toronto.

 

Of course, they could just do what they did in Edmonton and screw the fans and turn Benoit heel on a very pro-Benoit crowd. Then I would hurt somebody.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

I'd rather see Angle get a shot at being a serious face for once. He's pretty new to the buisness, and it'd help him to learn to do that now then later. Benoit's had his chance.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I'd rather see Angle get a shot at being a serious face for once. He's pretty new to the buisness, and it'd help him to learn to do that now then later. Benoit's had his chance.

Someone's maaaaaaad.

 

I can see the logic in holding off an Angle face turn, especially now, if they're saving him to go up against Lesnar as a face for Wrestlemania, which is six months away. That's a long time.

[Guest cynicalprofit]

I can only hope after face Benoit beats Brock and HHH and unifies the titles, Eddy in totaly rudo moed, gets a title shot on raw and they give it 15 minutes atleast...THAT will raise the ratings to atleast 4.0

[Guest Strike Force!]

God damn, you people gotta be kidding. I must be deaf because I swear, whenever I hear Benoit come out to the ring, I don't hear a cheer or a boo.

You and me both.

[Guest Strike Force!]

Back to the original topic at hand...

 

I hate heel vs. heel feuds without a turn. The thing is that part of me wants to see Angle turn face, but another part of me wants them to hold off a little longer. The longer you tease a face turn from a heel the fans want to cheer, the more over he'll be when he actually does turn face.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Benoit beating Lesnar and HHH? Both? In this universe? Doubtful. Lesnar is their Golden Boy..and HHH is HHH. It'd be a good trick to beat one of them clean, much less both of them..for titles.

 

I think Eddy gets kicked to the side a lot in these type things..because he's just as good, and better in someways (Character? Mic Skills? Hello? This is the WWE, after all..) than Benoit is.

 

*shrug*

 

I don't think Benoit would be a great permenant Main Eventer, but I'd take Benoit, Angle, Eddy, and RVD over HHH, Taker, Lesnar, and the Hoss of the month.

[Guest humongous2002]

Benoit could be a great face or heel wrestler but keep him away from the mic, get him a manage or "agent" and give him at least a short run with the World title at least to see if he could draw or not, which with the right proper push he'll do better than jtts Jericho.

[Guest Choken One]

I could see Heyman attaching himself to Beniot, once Lesnar turns face....

[Guest Army Eye]

Man, jobbing isn't the end of the world AS. You need to get over that complex. The Rock has lost more than any Main Eventer in WWE history - and he is probably the most popular ever. It ain't no thang.

Rock? Not a great example. Sure he would lose sometimes but only to huge amounts of cheating. Between his face turn in '99 and the loss to Lesnar at Summerslam, where are the clean jobs?

[Guest Rob Edwards]

I can see Benoit turning face, he isn't really any worse as a face than as a heel and Vince knows he needs some decent matches to start popping the buyrates again and Benoit/Angle leading to Benoit/Lesnar and Benoit/Guerrero should do that. As for Angle I can see him turning face around Christmas and getting teh Wrestlemania face push (assuming he doesn't go to the olympics)

[Guest Anglesault]

I can see Benoit turning face, he isn't really any worse as a face than as a heel and Vince knows he needs some decent matches to start popping the buyrates again and Benoit/Angle leading to Benoit/Lesnar and Benoit/Guerrero should do that.

What if Benoit can't carry Lesnar? I think we should assume that lesnar will continue to blow even against Benoit, so we don't get our hopes up for a match Brock could ruin.

[Guest OlympicHeroY2J]

God damn, you people gotta be kidding. I must be deaf because I swear, whenever I hear Benoit come out to the ring, I don't hear a cheer or a boo. I don't think the WWE has planned as having either of these two guys faces, instead just trying to get with the two heels match.

 

And of course he got a loud reception in his hometown. It's his HOMETOWN ! Everyone in Canada cheers for any Canadian. Even Test has gotten the occassional cheer in Canada. Maybe it's a country code or something but no matter how unover a Canadian is in America, Canada goes crazy over them.

 

Benoit....over ? Benoit....babyface ? Benoit....crowd reaction ?    Give me a break.

You must be, because I have recent matches on tape with both cheers and boos.

 

Oh, and you're wrong over the crowd reaction thing; you know it and I know it. Thanks.

I know that I'm wrong about the crowd reaction for Benoit ? Er.....not really. Let's see, at SummerSlam, in front of a pretty hot Nassau Coliseum crowd that night, Benoit came out and got....*SILENCE*

 

At Vengeance, Bubba Ray and Spike came out. Huge cheers. Eddie Guerrero came out. Huge boos. Benoit came out....*SILENCE*

 

Last Smackdown, Benoit goes against Rikishi. Like it or not, Rikishi gets cheers. Benoit gets....believe it or not....*SILENCE*

 

Yes, Benoit may have gotten cheers in WCW in what....1998 ? But this is 4 years later and the guy has had a crowd reaction one time...against the Rock at Fully Loaded 2000, and even THAT can be attributed to Shane McMahon. Every other time he's gotten a reaction is due to a manager, his partner ( Chris Jericho, specifically, during the feud with Steve Austin at KOTR ), or his opponent ( which I can remember for the Rock specifically. Against RVD, no one cared about Benoit )

 

I don't see how you people can just THINK Benoit can get the cheers from the fans. He has no personality where people can go "Wow, he's cool" or where people can like him for being sympathetic. He's supposedly a badass but if he really was, the fans would have responded to him at SOME point by now.

 

:::By the way, which RECENT Benoit matches has gotten crowd reactions ? By that, I mean BOOS for Benoit, not cheers for the other guy. Because, besides from his return in Canada, he's got shit-nada-zippo-NOTHING !

 

I can understand people have their favorite wrestlers but stop letting your bias block your opinions. Benoit....IS.....not.....over. And I don't think one match with Kurt Angle will make him a top 3 face on Smackdown even. Accept it.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Let's see, Canadian shows excluded, Smackdown against Rock, RAW against RVD, six-man on RAW, TLC 3...

 

Wait, you know what? Even if I give you a list, you're just going to dismiss it as "oh, well it was his opponent" or some shit, so I'm not going to waste my time with that, or with you. Feel happy about it? Or are you going to yammer some more?

[Guest Madmartigan21]

Let's see, Canadian shows excluded, Smackdown against Rock, RAW against RVD, six-man on RAW, TLC 3...

 

Wait, you know what? Even if I give you a list, you're just going to dismiss it as "oh, well it was his opponent" or some shit, so I'm not going to waste my time with that, or with you. Feel happy about it? Or are you going to yammer some more?

Actually you gave him all the reason to say it was the opponent. The Rock and RVD are over BIG TIME. Pretty much anyone heel that they might face is going to be more over when facing them, as opposed to any other wrestlers. TLC3? He was teaming with Jericho, who was over on HIS OWN merits, so Benoit got to share the heat.

 

Here's a question for you. When is the last time you heard a "Benoit Sucks!" chant? I don't think I've EVER heard one. Angle and Guerrero get one all the time. You know why? Because THEY are over HUGE. Benoit isn't. It's as simple as that.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I heard one at No Mercy 2000 against HHH, who wasn't even a full-fledged face at that point.

[Guest Madmartigan21]

I heard one at No Mercy 2000 against HHH, who wasn't even a full-fledged face at that point.

That's all you have? One time from almost two YEARS ago? ONLY one time?

 

HHH wasn't a full-fledge face yet? You should go back and watch that match as well as LISTEN to it again. The crowd was FIRMLY in support of HHH.

 

Any time that Benoit has been very over during his WWE(F) career outside of Canada, there have been extenuating circumstances. For example:

 

- He feuded with The Rock and Shane acted as his second.

 

- He feuded with Steve Austin

 

Like I said before Angle and Eddie can be in the ring with pretty much anbody and still have a ton of heat. The same thing can NOT be said of Benoit.

[Guest creativename]

Benoit gets almost no heat for his entrance, however his matches do get heat consistently.

 

This is the opposite of a guy like, say, Undertaker. Taker gets a big pop for his entrance, but doesn't get too much heat during his matches. He'll get popped for a hot tag or a chokeslam/Last Ride, but that's about it.

 

Of course guys like RVD, Rock, and Angle are the best of both worlds.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I heard one at No Mercy 2000 against HHH, who wasn't even a full-fledged face at that point.

That's all you have? One time from almost two YEARS ago? ONLY one time?

Look, all I can go by is memory. If that's not enough, then fuck it. Hell, I can remember times where Angle and Eddie weren't getting heat, but I digress.

 

I don't care anymore. Benoit has a spot near the top of the card and that doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon. That's good enough for me. My expectations evidently aren't as high as others'. If what goes on in this board regarding Benoit pisses you people off so much, kill yourself or something.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

OK.

 

Benoit was very over in 2001. Then he got injured. Then he came back (unanounced) and turned heel the same night. He had a one day fued with Austin. Then he began a tag team fued with The Dudleys (which he lost). Then he beats RVD once and loses to RVD once-neither matches had any build-up. He beats Rock once, but then returns the job (twice). If you look at that, it may tell you why Benoit isn't "HUGE" over, as he has been booked poorly since his return.

 

Anyway, its according the WWE (Supposdly) that Benoit is getting a reaction, which is why they are turning him face, so why are people cryin about it here?

[Guest Rob Edwards]

I can see Benoit turning face, he isn't really any worse as a face than as a heel and Vince knows he needs some decent matches to start popping the buyrates again and Benoit/Angle leading to Benoit/Lesnar and Benoit/Guerrero should do that.

What if Benoit can't carry Lesnar? I think we should assume that lesnar will continue to blow even against Benoit, so we don't get our hopes up for a match Brock could ruin.

Well that would all depend on the booking. If Brock is allowed to use his amateur matwork aswell as power moves and lets Benoit lead him through the match then it could be a good encounter. I realise it would be no classic but if Brock is willing to work his ass off I'd imagine Benoit is capable of getting a good match out of him

[Guest Brian]

Most people who are good wrestlers should be able to get a good match out of Brock. It seems pretty simple to me. He's willing to bump, and if you do some sort of simple body part psychology he sells well enough to take it.

 

Benoit's hasn't been booked in a way that'd you'd really expect him to do anything. There's been very little in the way of character development.

[Guest David Akeroyd's Biggest Fan]

stop letting your bias block your opinions

Well you're OBVIOUSLY anti-Benoit, judging by all these anti-Benoit borderline flame-baits you've been posting.

[Guest alfdogg]

I heard one at No Mercy 2000 against HHH, who wasn't even a full-fledged face at that point.

That's all you have? One time from almost two YEARS ago? ONLY one time?

Look, all I can go by is memory. If that's not enough, then fuck it. Hell, I can remember times where Angle and Eddie weren't getting heat, but I digress.

 

I don't care anymore. Benoit has a spot near the top of the card and that doesn't seem to be changing anytime soon. That's good enough for me. My expectations evidently aren't as high as others'. If what goes on in this board regarding Benoit pisses you people off so much, kill yourself or something.

Mulatto, just ignore these fuckin' morons. They're anti-Benoit, and they're not gonna be able to provide an unbiased argument. They only hear what they want. That's the way just about all fanboys are.