Buffy The Vampire Slayer: Season 7

[Guest Max Danger]

Also, I've got a question. My tv went on the fritz after Buffy called the Watcher's Council, what was said immediately after the phone call?

After Travers hung up the phone(all the Watchers were sitting at a big table), he got up and said that Buffy knew nothing. He walked over to a map(like you see in war films with the generals and whatnot) of the world.

 

He says they need to find Rupert Giles... as soon as possible. On the large map there are parts of the map in squares. Like where slayers and whatnot are(I assume, but I don't know).

 

Travers: (getting up) The girl knows nothing.

 

(walks over to the map)

 

Travers: We need to find Rupert Giles... as soon as possible.

 

That's it. Then goes back to Spike and Buffy, with Spike tied in a chair. Hope that was all you missed.

[The Dames 0]

Oh ok....because of the way that scene was cut out, I thought they confirmed Giles' death and I missed it. I was HEATED to say the least.

 

Dames

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

No word on Giles at all. Evil, evil Mutant Enemy.

 

Absolutely loved seeing Travers get blown up tonight, and then see him walking around talking to the president on 24 fifteen minutes later. TV actors sure do get around.

 

I don't think Principal Wood is evil. He certainly didn't look to be entirely himself as we was taking care of Jonathan's body; I imagine he was in a trance inspired by the First in some fashion.

 

I also don't think the vampire coming out of the seal was a resurrected Master, though I did at first. I would expect a bigger deal would have been made about it that way, especially since a lot of Buffy fans who showed up in season 2 or 3 or even more recently probably have zero clue who the Master is. This one looks wrinklier, older still; possibly the absolute first vampire, i.e. a pure one before people started getting sired? The First Vampire, to match up with the First Evil. Nice.

 

All in all, though this episode pushed a lot of stuff forward and had some really funny moments with Xander/Anya/Andrew, I was underwhelmed. The revelation that it was the First Evil was so bland and blase, and I called the Watcher's Council getting toasted as soon as Travers started giving his speech about getting ready. The writing just seemed off tonight; too much explaining, not enough subtext. It felt like some of the lower moments of season 6, where the writers really needed to club us with what the characters were thinking and feeling as opposed to being simple, subtle, and clever.

 

An important ep with a lot of cool moments and tons more questions, but paling in comparison to what was essentially a classic two-parter in Conversations/Sleeper.

[Guest LaParkaMarka]

Why do people want everything to be subtle? One of my friends didn't Conversations with Dead People because that one vamp psychoanalyses Buffy and basically tells the viewer what she's supposedly all about, and he thought it was lame that they just said it like that. Objections of this sort just confuse me. I mean, they can't be subtle all the time, right?

 

Anyways, I really enjoyed tonight's ep...the convos between "Warren"/Andrews and "Jonathon"/Andrews were great, as was the hilariously retarded Andrews vs Willow moment. I felt the dramatic stuff was all done very well too, and it was nice to see that the Scoobies know what they're up against. And Uber-Master (or whatever it was) being raised up was pretty neat. Good stuff indeed.

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

Well, my thoughts (I missed a bit, work really gets in the way of my TV time):

 

1) The Watcher's Coucil being blown up was kinda shocking. I like how Travers is making this big heroic speech about how it's time to gather and strike back, then "BOOM!". It also lets Giles come out of hiding to effect some sort of takeover of the Council and rally the troops, such as they are (I'm looking at YOU, pre-throat cutting Wesley).

 

2) I personally don't think the principal is evil. When I saw him going down into the basement I was thinking that things would start to unravel about him, but it really didn't. He looked almost resigned, like he expected to find paranormal activity/murder/mayhem, but was hoping that it wouldn't. Personally, it looked like he was just doing a coverup.

 

3) Marsters is the god of acting. His taunting of Buffy to get her to dust him was eery in that he was able to sound contrite and pleading one second, menacing in the next. Excellent acting.

 

4) On the subject of Spike, as a huge Spike mark I don't like the looks of where this is going. Buffy's whole "I believe in you" speech could set the stage for one of Joss' favorites, the noble sacrifice of the redeemed. Maybe it's just me though.

 

5) Andrew was hilarious with Willow. "Hey you don't even have black hair!" seems to stick in my head for some reason.

 

6) Xander and Anya still have the spark. Xander talking about Anya replacing "this one guy"'s heart with darkness and forcing him to live empty shows that he still has some feelings for her. Anya playing bad cop was great as well.

 

7) It kinda looks like they raised the first vampire. Full of evil, no spark of humanity whatsoever, I guess that might be "what a real vampire looks like".

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

Why do people want everything to be subtle? One of my friends didn't Conversations with Dead People because that one vamp psychoanalyses Buffy and basically tells the viewer what she's supposedly all about, and he thought it was lame that they just said it like that. Objections of this sort just confuse me. I mean, they can't be subtle all the time, right?

I loved the bit with Holden the vamp, because it was clever and interesting and witty, besides illuminating.

 

I always prefer subtlety over blatant exposition. Show me, rather than tell me.

 

For example: the season 5 ep, Intervention, was on FX Monday night. At the end of that episode, where masquerading as the Buffybot, Buffy gives battered Spike a kiss and tells him that he won't forget what he did for her and Dawn...things were left at that. No big long explanation. You could read how the characters felt through their actions and expressions, and it left more up in the air. One of the best moments the series ever had.

 

An example of that tonight was Xander's "Anya killed this guy" speech, wherein it becomes gradually apparent that he's talking about himself. It was nice and indirect. It's more artful, and to me seems like much better, much more genuine writing.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I haven't read every post all the way through...

 

I just wanted to say that when Buffy had to explain to Spike who Andrew was by referencing the running gag from last season "He's whoever's brother" I laughed.

 

When Spike knew who it was then I fell out of my seat.

[Guest LaParkaMarka]

An example of that tonight was Xander's "Anya killed this guy" speech, wherein it becomes gradually apparent that he's talking about himself. It was nice and indirect. It's more artful, and to me seems like much better, much more genuine writing.

Ok...I can definately see your point comparing it to Xander's speech. I guess I can just still enjoy the more blatant exposition as well as the more subtle things.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Also...

 

I loved the fact that the Watchers were finally about to do more than just watch...

 

and they were blown up.

[The Dames 0]

I found it pretty damn funny that Travers was killed on Buffy and then showed up on my TV on 24 15 minutes later. I didn't even notice him in the 24 credits, so it was more of a shock.

 

Dames

[Guest Vyce]

Great episode tonight with a lot of good stuff.

 

Like the rest of you, I liked all the parts already mentioned. The "First Vampire", the Xander / Anya stuff, Spike & the acting god that is James Marsters, the mass-Watchercide.

 

I sort of have a new theory, though, on Wood: I think he's a Watcher.

 

Really. That's my new theory. He's a sort of "sleeper" Watcher in the sense that he was sent to the Hellmouth to watch over it and at the same time keep an eye on Buffy (why did he offer her a job at the school? To keep closer tabs on her!), without making his Watcher status known. Now that things are getting bloody with the Council, he's lying low, trying to keep under the radar. Him finding & burying Jonathan would be apropos; it's him realizing that things are very bad indeed and that he's powerless to do much beside bury the dead at this point and try to wait things out, up until a point in the future where he will reveal himself and be able to aid Buffy.

 

I think it's plausible. Anyone else? Anyone? Bueller?

 

At the least, I do NOT think he's a villain. He might be, but I think it's some reverse psychology here. They want to make him appear to be a bad guy, when he's really not. With what we saw tonight, it's too obvious that he might be a villain, and I think Joss & crew are more subtle than that.

[Guest Cavi]

You have good points there, Vyce. The fact that he was so up front about offering Buffy a job still makes me wonder what his ulterior motive is, and I really could see him being a Watcher of that sort.

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

So what are our takes on this old-as-hell goopy Nosferatu-lookin' vamp? Is that our Real Big Bad? Is the First still our Big Bad, with that acting as a corporeal form or an agent of some sort?

 

The more I think about it, the more I think the vamp itself will be the big bad, and the First has only been acting this way to get it raised. Now, I like the idea of the First as the mega-death villain much more, but the whole Buffy-realizes-it's-the-First-Evil revelation still strikes me as plain and dull. Though again, I really can't see how you would actually *stop* the First Evil, while that vampire probably could just be staked n' all, given the opportunity.

 

And really, are we *supposed* to think it's the Master, or something older? Cause seriously, why do all the vampires wear leather? Is it in great supply in hell or something?

[Guest LaParkaMarka]

Maybe the vamp chicks dig leather? Maybe leather has special anti-good properties? Maybe owning leather is a status symbol in the underworld.

 

Or maybe Joss has a leather fetish.

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

You have good points there, Vyce. The fact that he was so up front about offering Buffy a job still makes me wonder what his ulterior motive is, and I really could see him being a Watcher of that sort.

Well I remember him saying that he's read "all about" Buffy's high school days. I imagine he's heard about what kind of things happened at the old Sunnydale High. Maybe he wanted to make sure she was around in case everything went to hell (literally). But yeah, the sleeper Watcher idea is appealing, as it shows that the Coucil was aware that something could happen and tried to plan for it.

[Guest Kingpk]

I saw the season 5 finale again on FX tonight and just wanted to ask something.

 

Was that supposed to be either the series finale (if they couldn't get a deal from WB or another network) or a way to kill off Buffy (again, but permanently) and have Dawn take over as the lead (if Gellar didn't want to do the show anymore)? I remember reading something about that in the paper.

 

Just curious.

[Guest Ripper]

Anyone watching the show last night, was one of those guys at the end with spike Andrew with his eyes dug out. It really looked like him.

 

Did anyone notice that it was Sarah Michelle Gellar playing the first two girls killed at the begainning of the season in some of the shots? I don't have Lessons on tape, but I saw it last night in the preview and I have Beneath you on tape and can stop on some frames and it is definately her. Cute.

 

I stand by my point that the super-vamp was the master just because of the Master-garb. I mean seriously...the leather body suit...who else. And his rise from the symbol is pretty similar to his rise from the blood pool in season one...from the exact same place to be specific. Its the MASTER...although I am still quivering at the thought of him raising The Mayor and/or Glory.

 

Adam Busch...the guy is fucking amazing and I don't think it gets said enough. If you watch the his character just evolve from mysogonistic guy with real psycho tendencys( I mean the stuff he programed in that robot he made her feel pain if she didn't mind him) into a mysogonistic, murdering, full fledged Psycho. ANd the guy has just been plain spooky this season. His potrayal of Warren has just been really underated.

 

 

Wood a watcher....dammit...why didn't I think of it first. You are probably right.

[Guest Mole]

Maybe the vamp chicks dig leather? Maybe leather has special anti-good properties? Maybe owning leather is a status symbol in the underworld.

 

Or maybe Joss has a leather fetish.

Well, usually people who are 'badasses' wear leather, and Vampires are badass. I dunno, just a thought.

 

Anyway, this weeks episode was kick ass. The 'real' Vampire doesn't really look like the Master, but the Master's brother or something like that. It should be something like the first Vampire ever or maybe a SUPER Vamp.

 

Whoever said that the Principal is a watcher is exactly what is going to happen. That makes PERFECT sense, and I really hope that's what happens. When I first saw him, I said to myself, he is defiently going to be a bad guy. But that is what Joss wants you to think, which makes him a GREAT writer. Hollywood is in the line for a great writer.

 

And what everyone has been saying, James should defiently win an Emmy for his role this year. Everything that he has done has been EXCELLENT. I always hear people say how Buffy has terrible acting, and that it isn't worth their time. Well, just show them any of those people an episode of him these past few weeks, and I am sure their minds will change.

 

Although I've never seen season 3, 4, or 5, except for a few episodes on FX, so I have a few questions:

 

1) Where has Buffy seen those guys in the capes before?

 

2) How often has Joss been foreshadowing things? And what has he foreshadowed? I remembering hearing/reading that he had everything planned for Buffy ever since season 1.

 

3) The Watches council thingy has been in past seasons for a test with Buffy, what was that? And what is the big deal with Travers?

[Guest Kagato Otaku]

C'mon Rip. Count Orlock, Uber-Vamp or whoever is NOT a renewed Master just because he wears leather pants. Going bad on this show gives you special villainy perks, with a leather ensemble to piss off PETA being one of them.

 

He is NOT the Master!! Not not not! You're being deceived! And once again, NO!

 

Andrew is in possession of both his eyes, still in the sockets.

 

Kingpk - That was cooked up by the WB, not Mutant Enemy. Gellar was always set to come back and the UPN deal was finalized.

 

Some say it was a tribute, but others believe it was a way to get viewers not in the know to believe BtVS had, in fact, ended.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

So what are our takes on this old-as-hell goopy Nosferatu-lookin' vamp? Is that our Real Big Bad? Is the First still our Big Bad, with that acting as a corporeal form or an agent of some sort?

I think the First is the big bad...although the Vamp could play a huge supporting roll.

 

And I don't think it's the Master...but who knows

 

I think I'd like the First as the Big Bad for this year AND next...the First could just raise various demons to do its bidding.

[Guest Kagato Otaku]

1) Where has Buffy seen those guys in the capes before?

 

Buffy had only seen the Harbingers in Season 3's "Amends". They were found under a Christmas tree lot worshipping the First. Buffy dispatches them, and they weren't seen again until this season.

 

2) How often has Joss been foreshadowing things? And what has he foreshadowed? I remembering hearing/reading that he had everything planned for Buffy ever since season 1.

 

Alot of things have been foreshadowed on this show. The most famous of these being Dawn's arrival in Season 4 (Restless) and Mayor Wilkins' involvement and knowledge of Sunnydale's supernatural affairs in Season 2 (School Hard/Becoming Part II). Both occurred before the actual characters made an appearance.

 

3) The Watches council thingy has been in past seasons for a test with Buffy, what was that? And what is the big deal with Travers?

 

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Third Season, "Helpless" - The Cruciamentum is a test given to the Slayer should they reach their 18th birthday. They are temporarily stripped of their powers (injections of muscle relaxtants and tranquilazers) and unknowingly locked in a building with a vampire. Travers forced Giles to perform the test on Buffy; which he did by draining her with the needles.

 

Buffy is shocked she's helpless, an ordinary girl. She breaks down when Giles reveals he helped make her what she is. She cries hysterically, and threatens to kill him if he so much as touches her. Giles is upset, saying he didn't want any of this and that he'll do whatever he can to regain her trust. He tells her of the test, thus nullifying it.

 

Meanwhile, her would-be opponent, the vampire Kralik, is being held in an old shack. The guy is NUTS. He breaks free, killing his keepers, and siring one. He knows about the test, and goes to visit Joyce. Ol' Kralik has a bit of a mommy complex, due to his own abusing him as a child. He kidnaps her, leaves a nice picture for Buffy to find, and heads back to the house. Buffy comes home to find her mother's been taken, and goes off to fight him alone.

 

Back at the library, Giles tells Travers what's happened. Travers says it's unfortunate, but the test must go on. Then Giles tells him he's told Buffy everything. Travers says that that was strictly against the Council's orders. Conveniently, Giles doesn't give a rat's ass about the council's orders. But it doesn't matter, says Travers, because the test has already begun. Giles is stunned.

 

(skipping some VERY-GOOD stuff with Buffy/Kralik due to length) Buffy's able to kill Kralik by swapping holy water for your run of the mill non-holy water after finding out the vamp has to have pills to alleviate his fits. Giles then saves her from the second vampire Kralik created.

 

Giles tends to Buffy's wounds in the school. Travers talks to them, and congratulates her for passing the test. Buffy's not too happy. Travers scolds Giles, telling him that his love for Buffy is like that of a father, and not needed on the battlefield. He's fired. A new watcher (Wesley) will soon arrive.

 

 

Season 5 "Checkpoint" - Travers and the Council show up to bug everybody again, trying to force Buffy to take more tests before giving info on Glory. Buffy has enough, and says the Slayer is the one running things here. They cave and give up the info.

 

Travers is pretty much a pencil-pusher, a petty jerk that pushes these girls to war while sitting on the sidelines. He's not thought too much of in most circles.

[Guest Mole]

Giles tends to Buffy's wounds in the school. Travers talks to them, and congratulates her for passing the test. Buffy's not too happy. Travers scolds Giles, telling him that his love for Buffy is like that of a father, and not needed on the battlefield. He's fired. A new watcher (Wesley) will soon arrive.

Thanks man, I'm sure there are more questions I'll ask later.

 

So, how does he get his job back?

 

Another question I have is, what is everyone's favorite season? I know this was discussed earlier in the forum, but it doesn't hurt to ask again. From the seasons I've seen (1,2,6, and all of 7 so far) 2 is the best. However, if 7 keeps up the way its is, then it's going to be 7. Plus, when season 3 comes out on DVD, I will have seen another.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

In the Eps. where the council goes to sunnydale to 'help' buffy with Glory, Buffy realizes that they really want to be back 'in' with the slayer - since without her they are nothing. So she makes some demands - one of which is Giles become a watcher again and getting paid retro-actively and such.

 

So is Giles searching for Faith?

[Guest Mole]

So is Giles searching for Faith?

Wait, Faith is coming back? I know nothing bout season 3, anything to do with Faith, but I thought she died.

 

Don't forgot though, Buffy all day tomorrow on FX. Wahoo!!

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

No, Faith never died. She was put in a coma, then woke up and after rumbling with Buffy ended up going to jail on the Angel show.

[Guest Special K]

I gotta say, while season 7 has been compelling, the biggest draw has been that they've been throwing in all kinds of tidbits for old-time fans (I joined the cult last year, but I've seen every ep.) It's been really immersive in that way. Drawing back to seasons 2 and 3 takes balls, and really adds a sense of being a part of something horrendous that;s about to happen.

 

Be that as it may. I'd still like a little more Willow and Xander.

[Guest Cavi]

Adam Busch...the guy is fucking amazing and I don't think it gets said enough.  If you watch the his character just evolve from mysogonistic guy with real psycho tendencys( I mean the stuff he programed in that robot he made her feel pain if she didn't mind him) into a mysogonistic, murdering, full fledged Psycho.  ANd the guy has just been plain spooky this season.  His potrayal of Warren has just been really underated.

 

I agree. He has played his role extremely well. I liked the fact that the writers put over the acting ability of the Troika in quite a few interviews, as they are rarely given any sort of props.

 

Alot of things have been foreshadowed on this show. The most famous of these being Dawn's arrival in Season 4 (Restless) and Mayor Wilkins' involvement and knowledge of Sunnydale's supernatural affairs in Season 2 (School Hard/Becoming Part II). Both occurred before the actual characters made an appearance.

 

To expand on that, Dawn was first foreshadowed in the Season Three finale, "Graduation Day - Part II". While Buffy is in the hospital, she has a dream in which she is with Faith (at this time, Faith is in a coma). Faith says "Miles to go. Little Miss Muffet counting down from 7 3 0." Little Miss Muffet being Dawn, and 730 being exactly two years.

 

In addition to Tara's direct reference to Dawn in "Restless", Buffy looks at the clock and the time is 7:30. How cool.

[Guest Kagato Otaku]

And to expand on THAT, Doc (the lizard demon that carves up Dawn on Glory's tower) looks down at his watch at the start of the ritual.

 

"It's just about that time."

 

What did his watch say? 7:30.

 

730 days after the events of Graduation Day - Part II.

[Guest Mole]

Alot of things have been foreshadowed on this show. The most famous of these being Dawn's arrival in Season 4 (Restless) and Mayor Wilkins' involvement and knowledge of Sunnydale's supernatural affairs in Season 2 (School Hard/Becoming Part II). Both occurred before the actual characters made an appearance.

 

To expand on that, Dawn was first foreshadowed in the Season Three finale, "Graduation Day - Part II". While Buffy is in the hospital, she has a dream in which she is with Faith (at this time, Faith is in a coma). Faith says "Miles to go. Little Miss Muffet counting down from 7 3 0." Little Miss Muffet being Dawn, and 730 being exactly two years.

 

In addition to Tara's direct reference to Dawn in "Restless", Buffy looks at the clock and the time is 7:30. How cool.

Wow, stuff like that amazes me. All I have to say is that is some pretty smart storytelling. Joss doesn't just have Buffy just figured out, but LIFE itself.

[The Dames 0]

As someone who's been watching since season 4 and has seen 1 & 2 on DVD....I didn't even catch all that! DAMN, that's some awesome storytelling.

 

I wish that Fox would have let Joss write Alien 4 the way he wanted to, instead of the tripe that came out of Resurrection.

 

Dames