Gambit & Rogue

[Guest HellSpawn]

Hello True Believers!

 

Can someone help me with some info about Gambit and Rogue status?

 

Focus on the last few years... post "zero tolerance".

 

Thanx.

[Guest pochorenella]

I sorta out of the loop on those guys but here's what (little) I know:

 

Rogue absorbed Gambit's memories and learned of his dark secrets, thus alieanating them somewhat. They teased some reconciliation but it never fully realized and Gambit went on his way for a while. In the meantime, the stupid writers (not sure exactly who but they should be punished) TOTALLY MESSED UP Rogue's powers, making her recall each and every single one she aquired over the years, but in a way that she could not control (until recently). This came about when she touched a skrull alien, thus screwing up her own powers. She aligned herself with the X-Treme X-Men Team, when Gambit suddenly reappeared in a storyline with a guy named Vargas, who killed Psylocke (another messed up character) with no remorse. And what did Gambit do? Exact revenge upon his former teammate's killer? No, he just entangled in a somewhat friendly conversation with the guy.

 

That's as far as I know, and I'm also interested in knowing if this shit has improved in any way or if it's gone further the way of the crapper. As I've stated before, the way they have screwed with the Rogue character is totally ridiculous and criminal, in the same way they did with Psylocke and Archangel (in a lesser way). If they keep up with this, then Rogue's better off dead just like they mercifully did with Psylocke.

[Guest starvenger]

That's as far as I know, and I'm also interested in knowing if this shit has improved in any way or if it's gone further the way of the crapper. As I've stated before, the way they have screwed with the Rogue character is totally ridiculous and criminal, in the same way they did with Psylocke and Archangel (in a lesser way). If they keep up with this, then Rogue's better off dead just like they mercifully did with Psylocke.

Speaking of Angel (he's going by that again btw since he's got his wings back and all) he's back to being a white guy thanks to some unexplained plot device involving Black Tom. He, Namorita and Warbird should start a therapy group for heroes that have one identity, radically change to another (complete with a new codename) and then go back to the original one.

 

Speaking of Warbird, what exactly is the story on Carol Danvers? When did she stop being Binary?

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

I always wondered what the hell happened to Namorita that made her go blue and all. Anybody care to explain or lead me to some issues showing why?

[Guest pochorenella]

Speaking of Warbird, what exactly is the story on Carol Danvers? When did she stop being Binary?

 

She still exhibited her Binary powers in Avengers (vol. 3) #1 when she showed up alongside all existing members to battle Morgan LeFey. After she was given official membership back she started to deny using her powers even after Captain America requested her to do so because she knew something was wrong with her. I think the term is that her powers were "in flux". She lost more abilities and control along the way and eventually her tank was empty (or near E at least), so she renamed herself Warbird (no use for her former name anymore) because of her love for fighter jets and stuff.

[Guest Vyce]

She aligned herself with the X-Treme X-Men Team, when Gambit suddenly reappeared in a storyline with a guy named Vargas, who killed Psylocke (another messed up character) with no remorse. And what did Gambit do? Exact revenge upon his former teammate's killer? No, he just entangled in a somewhat friendly conversation with the guy.

This was only in like, the third issue or something, and shortly afterwards I dropped X-Treme X-Men and never looked back. I've seen it get good reviews on this forum. I DON'T believe it.

 

That insanity was just one of a dozen (or more) glaring flaws in Claremont's writing. Vargas just killed one of their own.....and Gambit has a little chit-chat with him, and just walks away.

 

It's like Claremont's last run on X-Men. Anyone remember that? The man has a good habit of having the X-Men not give a shit about their teammates. Kitty Pryde was lost and considered dead, they NEVER got around to looking for her. Nightcrawler was trapped inside some building with the Neo, and the X-Men went on a half-dozen different adventures - INCLUDING taking a break for a vacation - before they wen, "Oh, guess we should go rescue him now."

 

Unforgiveable.

[Guest Sassquatch]

Rogue is currently starring in Chris Claremont's send-off book X-Treme X-Men which has is a poor to decent book. It does not sell a high number of copies but it's high price keeps it on top.

 

Claremont has been shoved into a corner by Marvel and last I heard, Jemas and Quesada are counting down the days for when Claremont's Harras deal runs out.

[Guest danielisthor]

I will add that Claremont is pissing me off as well with his writing. Not to even mention all the crap thats been mentioned, but now we toss in that Lifeguard is a Royal Shiar. Come on, please, lets here the freaking explanation on this one. In a span of what 6 books, she goes from being the unsuspecting daughter of a mob boss to Shiar Royalty. WTBF.

 

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

 

thanks for letting me ramble.

 

 

I really should of stopped reading when the killed off Peter.

[Guest HellSpawn]

Thanx for the info.

 

I also think that F'n Claremont is out of control, I think he was on x-men when Rogue began a semi affair with Colossus, just because she can kiss him while he is on metal form, then I dropped that garbage, now I read one preview of xtreme something, and said something about both Rogue and Gambit been killed ?!?!?! What the F.... ?

[Guest MrRant]

Thanx for the info.

 

I also think that F'n Claremont is out of control, I think he was on x-men when Rogue began a semi affair with Colossus, just because she can kiss him while he is on metal form, then I dropped that garbage, now I read one preview of xtreme something, and said something about both Rogue and Gambit been killed ?!?!?! What the F.... ?

That is why I'm afraid to get back into comics. I will just be lost.

[Guest Sassquatch]

It's not too hard to get back into comics, Rant. If you are given good recommendations from people and ask questions about certain things that you are lost about, then you shouldn't have too big of a problem.

 

At one point, Claremont was looked at as one of the future great writers in comic books. 20 years, some of these people are still waiting for that to dream to happen. Claremont *had* the potential to be one of the best writers of his generation but his stubbornness and bull-headed attitude stopped him from achieving that status. Chris did not change his style when the times called for it and he stuck to a by-the-numbers writing style in most of his books. Chris was stuck in a different era at times with the stories he would write and the fans would react accordingly.

 

The one thing that will always hurt Chris is when people compare him to his old Uncanny X-Men partner John Bryne. Many people thought that Claremont would go on to larger things when him and Bryne broke up. John went on to write and draw Iron Man, Fantastic Four, Superman, Wonder Woman, and the Incredible Hulk. Bryne achieved success on nearly every title he did during that time and helped bring back each of those characters to sales prominence and brought them back from the depths of terrible writing and low sales.

 

To Claremont's credit, he stuck by his baby the Uncanny X-Men and churned out some great stories in his first couple years without his old partner Bryne. Claremont helped make the X-Men one of Marvel's highest selling titles throughout the '80's. But by the Mutant Massacre, it was clear that Chris was starting to burn out and began to morph into the shoddy and bitter writer who would be known as a guy who was hard to work with. Chris started to feel that his characters must suffer in some big event but would act like nothing happened in later issues. His stories began to have no lingering affects when he had written this major storyline that had a direct affect on the X-Men.

 

After Chris had left Marvel in 1993, his run with DC proved to be even more damning to his reputation. DC pimped Chris's book like crazy but the results did not meet the hype and the book became one of DC's "when will it end?" books that became common place in that period. It was also the nail in the coffin for Chris in regards to him being able to branch out on his own and achieve success in the other company like his partner Bryne had done nearly 10 years earlier. Chris tried to shake his past with Bryne and try to become a good writer on his own. But he did no favors by turning out shitty stories and brining up his war with John several times in various interviews for DC when he was working for them. DC and Chris had the idea in their heads that Chris could be just as big/bigger then his partner John when Chris entered DC and he failed miserably.

 

Chris Claremont will go down in history as a man who did not change when he needed to and was hard to work with and hurt himself and his books in the process. Claremont is looked at as a contract liability by Marvel at this point and they are counting down the days for when Claremont's contract runs out. It is a shame that he could not live up to the hype that himself and others put forth and how he could never shake the larger shadow of his former partner. Claremont is his own worst enemy and will be looked at as someone who stayed too long in comic books when it was crystal clear that the man just didn't have the touch he once had.

[Guest MrRant]

It's not too hard to get back into comics, Rant. If you are given good recommendations from people and ask questions about certain things that you are lost about, then you shouldn't have too big of a problem.

Well lets say I want to get back into Batman since he has always been my favorite especially of the DC characters.

 

Now I used to read fairly regulary but then got kinda spotty and the last I read was the whole series with Bane etc. Then I got disinterested. Where would I go from there?

[Guest Sassquatch]

When?

 

Right now.

 

Batman #608 is the start of new writer Jeph Loeb and new artist Jim Lee's run with the Batman franchise. Loeb plans to start a 12-part story arc in #608 and is starting the series with a clean slate.

 

I suggest you go out to your local comic shop/mag store and pick up a copy of Batman #608. If you need a jumping on point, then this is the issue for you.

[Guest MrRant]

When?

 

Right now.

 

Batman #608 is the start of new writer Jeph Loeb and new artist Jim Lee's run with the Batman franchise. Loeb plans to start a 12-part story arc in #608 and is starting the series with a clean slate.

 

I suggest you go out to your local comic shop/mag store and pick up a copy of Batman #608. If you need a jumping on point, then this is the issue for you.

I checked DCComics.com and it says its not out till towards the middle-end of October so I shall have to remind myself.

[Guest Goodear]

I have a stupid Rogue question... I get the idea that her powers make it impossible to touch other people without absorbing their powers and memories. And she was all missing out on the SOOO why doesn't she put on one of those power draining collar things that every X-Men villan seems to carry in their trunks? Wouldn't that kind of, you know, solve the problem so she and Gambit get have nooky and get on with their lives?

[Guest danielisthor]

I have a stupid Rogue question... I get the idea that her powers make it impossible to touch other people without absorbing their powers and memories. And she was all missing out on the SOOO why doesn't she put on one of those power draining collar things that every X-Men villan seems to carry in their trunks? Wouldn't that kind of, you know, solve the problem so she and Gambit get have nooky and get on with their lives?

You know something, in the 17years that i have been reading comics, that never occured to me. doh.

[Guest danielisthor]

Another thing that always pissed me off about Claremont was/is his loose strings approach to writing. He never ended any storyline with a true ending, there was always a loose end or two. And i'm not talking about the villian escaping or things like that, more like Peter's son in the Savage Land, etc. etc. and then never going back to tie it up.

[Guest pochorenella]

Another thing that always pissed me off about Claremont was/is his loose strings approach to writing. He never ended any storyline with a true ending, there was always a loose end or two. And i'm not talking about the villian escaping or things like that, more like Peter's son in the Savage Land, etc. etc. and then never going back to tie it up

 

I'd completely forgot about this storyline, and it's just another perfect example that Claremont is totally screwed up. He just leaves loose ends one after another and then forgets about them. I concur that he was at his best when he worked with John Byrne. And while Byrne blossomed on his own with his terrific work on Fantastic Four and Superman, Claremont just stuck on his stupid ideas and went nowhere.

[Guest J*ingus]

SOOO why doesn't she put on one of those power draining collar things that every X-Men villan seems to carry in their trunks? Wouldn't that kind of, you know, solve the problem so she and Gambit get have nooky and get on with their lives?

I have been thinking the exact same thing for years now.

[Guest Sassquatch]

No one ever said that the X-Men writers were competent writers. For the last 15 or so years, the sales of the X-Men comics are not justified by the story telling. Monster sales do not mean that a book is good and the X-Men are probably one of, if not *the* best example of this point.

 

Rogue probably could be cured of her powers but that would take away from the writers fun of playing the same old tired plot of "Rogue is sad because she can't give Gambit a blowjob or Wolverine some good lovin."

 

If she were to be cured of her mutant powers, some time down the line, some hack...I mean X-Men writer would probably have Rogue regain her powers and lose everything she had built up in the time that she was not a mutant.

 

That's the X-Men for you.

[Guest danielisthor]

When you sit and think about it, its been a really shitty year for the x-books.

 

Peter kills himself to cure the world of the Legacy Virus.

 

Beast mutates into some stupid catlike figure.

 

Angel is white again.

 

Rouge has little to no control over her powers.

 

Professor X has a twin sister who's been missing for 70 years that he attempted to kill in the womb, who takes over his body and tries to have the Shiar kill every mutant on the planet. She also sends Sentinels to destroy Genosha.

 

Havok returns as a drooling involent.(Sp)

 

 

 

 

i can go on for hours with this crap.

[Guest Sassquatch]

Thinking about why the X-Men books are full of shit and are an insult to people's intelligence's would probably cause you to lose 8 IQ points based simply on the principle that it would hurt your head thinking of all that shit.

 

If someone were to make a list of "Why the X-Men have been a steaming pile of creative shit for the last 15 years" they would probably shoot themselves in the head after getting up to the Fall of the Mutants storyline.

[Guest HellSpawn]

Goodear, Mon ami... I think you deserve a No-Prize !

 

Thats one of the more smart solutions to help poor lil Rogue.

 

And thats why I hate Xavier, he NEVER tried to help her, I mean, c'mon, I guess Xavier, Beast and Forge easily could develop a collar, a painless one, damn, maybe even a little fashionable, those guys invented that gadget used by Angel and Nightcrawler to disguise themselves.

 

Bravo!

 

Of course, like Sass said, it 'll kill Rogue's angle, but, hey, thats what writers are paid, to bring new stuff, not to retold the same story, or screw the story more .

[Guest gthureson]

If she were to be cured of her mutant powers, some time down the line, some hack...I mean X-Men writer would probably have Rogue regain her powers and lose everything she had built up in the time that she was not a mutant.

 

That's the X-Men for you.

Not that there can be a real answer to the following question, seeing as it is a fictional universe and the laws of superpowers are malleable depending on the writer, but.....

 

...If, say, Forge blasted Rogue by accident with his power-zapping device du jour (hey, he nailed Storm with it, could happen...), would it just remove her mutant powers?

 

Cause thats what the design specs seem to say.

 

Wouldn't that leave her with her Ms. Marvel powers? Unless they already took those away from her. I haven't paid attention since just after Fall of the Mutants.

 

End result: Happy Rogue doing the nasty with anything that moves just 'cause she can, yet still useful cause she can fly, is relatively tough and strong.

 

Best case scenario, if you ask me.

 

Less angstful though, meaning she would get kicked out of the group for not pulling her weight in the angst department.

[Guest Sassquatch]

"but, hey, thats what writers are paid, to bring new stuff, not to retold the same story, or screw the story more . "

 

- Hellspawn

 

 

This has to be one of the most unintentionally funniest things I have ever read in a while.

 

Most of today's writers are fanboy hacks who want to go back and live out their younger days by writing the same rehashed tripe that their heroes/mentors did 15/20 years ago. Except they put some k00l buzzword in front of the story to give readers the impression that the idea is "new" or "totally different" from the other 5 stories that were told before using the same plot.

 

"Less angstful though, meaning she would get kicked out of the group for not pulling her weight in the angst department."

 

- gthureson

 

 

Without the Mutant ANGST~! the X-Men would lose all those ANGST~! ridden teens that love the book for inane reasons.

 

I would imagine that Ms.Marvel's powers would also leave Rogue if she lost her powers considering that she took Marvel's powers using her own.

[Guest starvenger]

And thats why I hate Xavier, he NEVER tried to help her, I mean, c'mon, I guess Xavier, Beast and Forge easily could develop a collar, a painless one, damn, maybe even a little fashionable, those guys invented that gadget used by Angel and Nightcrawler to disguise themselves.

Actually it was Tony Stark who created the image inducer. Forge may or may not have improved on it, I dunno.

 

I would imagine that Ms.Marvel's powers would also leave Rogue if she lost her powers considering that she took Marvel's powers using her own.

Someone needs to clear up this entire Rogue/Danvers thing for me. This is what I know:

 

- Rogue "steals" Danvers powers, which ends up being permanent and leaves Danvers powerless.

- Danvers, due to some latent Kree genetic thing, becomes Binary, and goes off with the Starjammers.

- Rogue finds out that a vestige of Danver's psyche occupies her mind.

- After going through the seige perilous, Rogue and the Danvers persona are split up. Magneto integrates them back together or something, and Rogue ends up back with the Ms. Marvel powers. Or maybe she never lost them, I'm not entirely sure, as this took place in the Savage Land.

- Danvers becomes Ms. Marvel/Warbird again, due to ???

- Rogue's power starts going haywire, due to ???

- I say "what the fuck?" and ask for help.

[Guest HellSpawn]

About Rogue...

 

I do believe if someone take off her mutant power, Ms.Marvel's powers will remain, but damn, this writers, I rememebr Gambit n Rogue were trapped on Magneto's former house, on a story with the "nanny", they were powerless, and it looks like Rogue lost ALL her powers and her mind went scrambled with all the memories.

 

On more about that, I got a question...

 

She steal/take both powers and memories, but the powers disappear after a few momments (or days or hours...whatever) but... the memories remain forever? or also disappear?

[Guest danielisthor]

About Rogue...

 

I do believe if someone take off her mutant power, Ms.Marvel's powers will remain, but damn, this writers, I rememebr Gambit n Rogue were trapped on Magneto's former house, on a story with the "nanny", they were powerless, and it looks like Rogue lost ALL her powers and her mind went scrambled with all the memories.

 

On more about that, I got a question...

 

She steal/take both powers and memories, but the powers disappear after a few momments (or days or hours...whatever) but... the memories remain forever? or also disappear?

as far as i can remember, she retains(but might not remember - maybe in her subconscience) the memories.

[Guest Sassquatch]

"Actually it was Tony Stark who created the image inducer. Forge may or may not have improved on it, I dunno."

 

- starvenger

 

 

Forge did not improve the technology on the image inducer. The Angel had his own image inducer created while Nighcrawler's image inducer came courtesy of Professor X when he originally joined the team.

 

"- Rogue "steals" Danvers powers, which ends up being permanent and leaves Danvers powerless."

 

- starvenger

 

 

Correct.

 

"- Danvers, due to some latent Kree genetic thing, becomes Binary, and goes off with the Starjammers."

 

- starvenger

 

 

It was actually the Brood that helped Carol become Binary.

 

"- Rogue finds out that a vestige of Danver's psyche occupies her mind."

 

- starvenger

 

 

Actually, Rogue found out that a new zombie-like Carol Danvers inhabited her body, which slowly started to turn Rogue into a zombie herself.

 

"- After going through the seige perilous, Rogue and the Danvers persona are split up. Magneto integrates them back together or something, and Rogue ends up back with the Ms. Marvel powers. Or maybe she never lost them, I'm not entirely sure, as this took place in the Savage Land."

 

- starvenger

 

 

Rogue did lose her powers for a short time and Magneto helped her regain them in the Savage Land storyline. He also helped rid Rogue of the evil version of Ms.Marvel that was in her body.

 

"- Danvers becomes Ms. Marvel/Warbird again, due to ???"

 

- starvenger

 

 

Kurt Busiek just wanted her to star in his Iron Man and Avengers stories but never gave an explanation as to why Danvers became Ms.Marvel/Warbird again.

 

So there is no explanation as to why she donned the black suit once again.

 

"- Rogue's power starts going haywire, due to ???"

 

- starvenger

 

 

Rogue had a nervous breakdown and she lost control of her powers. The only way to control her powers was to wear a special suit made by Professor X that kept the powers in check.

 

"- I say "what the fuck?" and ask for help."

 

- starvenger

 

 

Helped has arrived.

 

[Guest starvenger]

"Actually it was Tony Stark who created the image inducer. Forge may or may not have improved on it, I dunno."

 

- starvenger

 

 

Forge did not improve the technology on the image inducer. The Angel had his own image inducer created while Nighcrawler's image inducer came courtesy of Professor X when he originally joined the team.

Yes, but I'm pretty sure that at some point reference is made to Stark creating the inducers. It would've come somewhere during Claremont's run.