Birds of Prey

[Guest areacode212]

Well, the 70 minute series premiere has come & gone. What did you all think of it? It was a bit of a mixed bag, IMO. I never set my expectations very high when watching new TV shows, so I wasn't too disappointed. The clocktower set looked cool, and it was a nice touch borrowed from the comic.

 

Dina Meyer was good as Oracle, but the rest of the cast was unremarkable, especially Rachel Skarsten (Dinah) and the guy who played the detective. Granted, they were given pretty horrible dialogue (especially those awful one-liners), but it's still possible to do a convincing line reading with what they had. Also, some parts (mainly Helena & Barbara's exchange about Barb's lack of snacks) came off like they were trying so hard to go for the wit of a show like Buffy, but fell short and ended up being annoying.

 

It was only the pilot, so hopefully the bad acting and the expository dialogue ("Bruce Wayne is your father? He's one of the richest men in the country!") will disappear as the season goes on.

[Guest Sassquatch]

In about one hour I will have my thoughts up on the show. Like you 212, I have heard mixed results about the show so I'm going in the show without any specific expectations. My *only* request is that the show will be at least watchable without the usual annoying teen angst crap that I am sick of.

 

I am curious to see how the flashback's with Batman, Catwoman and the Joker are. I like what I saw in the previews so I hope it'll be good and not rushed or some other crap.

[Guest NaturalBornThriller4:20]

Eh.....2 Stars meaning it was Average/Watchable.

Reminded me of Buffy.

[Guest razazteca]

so who was the blond girl?

 

the show was ok but not as good as Smallville or Charmed

[Guest Kagato Otaku]

This was today?! DAMMIT!!

 

I really wanted to see if they could sync up Mark Hamill's voice for the live-action Joker.

[Guest Tony149]

The show wasn't as bad as some made it out to be, but it wasn't great either.

 

The only problem I had was with the way the Joker looked. I heard the producers ran into problems (with WB) about trying to make Joker like himself i.e., the way he looks in the comics, movies, and animated series -- but the director should of used common-sense and hid Joker in the shadows where only his eyes and purple suit could be seen.

 

Hamill, once again, did one helluva job voicing the Joker. He had a small part, but damn it was sweet!

 

The one-liners bothered me too. I had BATMAN & ROBIN flashbacks with that.

[Guest Bosstones Fan]

This isn't related to the content of the show really (since I didn't see a mintue of it, it's unfair to judge it), but the WB has GOT to stop these dumbass 70-minute season premiers.

 

This one (like that stupid Everwood) caused the local news to take it upon themselves to fill the entire remainder of the hour (50 minutes) with their useless broadcast and thus pre-empt Seinfeld, forcing me protest loudly to myself.

 

What exactly is the point of making the show 70 minutes? How does that help anything?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

It was 70 minutes? I recorded it not knowing it was that long. I set the starting time at 7:58pm and the ending time at 9:05pm and I got the whole thing on tape except a couple of seconds off the ending credits.

 

I agree some of the dialogue was cheesy, but I still liked it. The chick who plays Huntress is pretty good looking, but not as hot as the one playing Batwoman/Oracle.

[Guest Kagato Otaku]

Having missed the show (once again, DAMMIT!!) I don't know how much footage is going to be cut from this ep. Extended shows are a "big deal" because they're usually just a one time thing, and then trimmed to standard length the subsequent broadcast.

 

So either they padded this ep with A LOT of filler, making it less effective for a first time showing, or it's going to be hacked into ribbons the next time (ala Buffy's "Once More With Feeling") ruining the reruns.

[Guest Lethargic]

I thought it started off slow but got better as it went along. The opening flashbacks all looked horrible and kinda got it started off on the wrong foot. But once they got past that and got past the getting to know you parts and just got to the ass kicking and crime fighting it was decent. But maybe I thought it was good because I had just watched last week's Transformers Armada right before it. I know people said to give that show a chance, well I have. And it sucks. Last week's episode was horrible. Save the trees!!

 

I liked the one line on Birds about the meteor showers from Smallville. That was funny. That's the most stupid and retarded thing about Smallville so I'm glad that they poked a little fun at it.

[Guest El Satanico]

I haven't seen the show yet. In my area UPN and WB is on the same channel for some reason so the schedules are always screwed up for WB shows. For example, Smallville is on Wednesdays at ten here. So i'm figuring Birds of Prey is on Smallville's normal day, but i don't know when Smallville is normally on.

[Guest Lethargic]

I wish they'd put Smallville and Birds on back to back. It would be a lot easier to remember then. I've only remembered to watch Smallville ONCE so far. Luckily it has that replay. But Birds doesn't have a replay. If I forget that I'm screwed unless somebody puts it online for download.

[Guest Sassquatch]

What fucking logic gaps they have.

 

My oh my...

 

So let me get this straight:

 

The Joker murders Selena and her daughter Helena comes to her aid and she looks like she is 15.

 

Yet there was never any indication that the Joker knew that Selena had any ties with Batman.

 

Barbara gets shot by the Joker and is crippled.

 

Yet there was never any time where the show told the viewers that the Joker knew that Barbara was Batgirl who the Joker was gunning for.

 

The age timetable on this show is also fucked up because we have no idea how old Helena is or how much time had passed between the Batman and Catwoman hooking up.

 

Oh and I guess having a secret identity must not matter too much. Fucking wonderful.

 

The acting also made me cringe at times with the awful one-liners and terrible facial expressions. I also couldn't shake the "Dark Angel" wannabe stigmata that I was seeing from Helena too. Hell, the show is almost exactly like Dark Angel except you have a chick as the cripple genius.

 

I don't mind it when TV shows cut things out and add to comic book storylines. But "Birds of Prey" just butchered several storylines, which made things hard as fuck to follow in the beginning.

 

Very disappointing so far and hopefully the show will get better as the season moves along.

[Guest Lethargic]

The Joker murders Selena and her daughter Helena comes to her aid and she looks like she is 15.

 

Yet there was never any indication that the Joker knew that Selena had any ties with Batman.

 

Barbara gets shot by the Joker and is crippled.

 

Yet there was never any time where the show told the viewers that the Joker knew that Barbara was Batgirl who the Joker was gunning for.

 

The age timetable on this show is also fucked up because we have no idea how old Helena is or how much time had passed between the Batman and Catwoman hooking up.

1. As far as Joker killing Selena. I think it's pretty obvious that Joker knew about Batman/Catwoman. That was why he killed her obviously. They shouldn't have to be beat that into your head to figure that out. Seemed pretty simple to me from the get go and it got even simpler when Barbara told Dinah that Joker did it to drive Batman insane. So he obviously knew.

 

2. As far as them not telling the viewers that Joker knew Barbara was Batgirl. I don't know about anybody else but THIS viewer was specifically told that Joker knew that Barbara was Batgirl and that's why he shot her. He said so WHEN he shot her. Turn the volume on and plotholes aren't so bad.

 

3. I think it's safe to assume that Helena is around 25 or so just by looking at her. So I'd think that would make it 25 years since Batman and Catwoman hooked up. And if you think she looked 15 when Selena was murdered, that'd make 10 years since he left.

[Guest Drakoan]

She looked 15? Looked anywhere between 15-18 to me. Plus Dinah was a little girl when she dreamed it so it's got to be atleast over 10 years later.

 

Joker could have just followed Barbara home since the Batwoman costume was laying on the floor that tells me Barbara had just got home and had taken off the costume. Which means he probably followed Batwoman to that apartment.

[Guest Lethargic]

By the way, in case you haven't heard, Lori Loughlin from Full House has been cast as the Black Canary for future episodes.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Is the Joker supposed to be in prison or dead?

[Guest Lethargic]

Is the Joker supposed to be in prison or dead?

As far as I know, neither. He just vanished along with Batman.

[Guest Sassquatch]

There are things called "logic gaps" that do not tell the viewer what is going on and because of these problems the viewers are either A) confused B) forced to make up their own scenario or C) do not give a crap and will forget about the show about as quickly as the show rolled out it's logic gaps.

 

Is the Joker dead or alive?

 

How did the Joker find out that Barbara Gordon was Batgirl?

 

Why did Batman leave the town he once protected?

 

How did Helena acquire her powers if her parents had no powers of their own?

 

If her parents did have super powers, why was the viewer not made aware of them?

 

How did Barbara find out about Helena?

 

These questions should have had some indication to what the answers were but instead the viewers were forced to make-up their own assumptions when the writers should have outlined them. The show did not have to explain everything at first but the storyline itself for the show was all over the place with no subtle hints or answers most of the time. The show is all over the place in terms of how everything fell into play for the Joker in being able to ruin Batman's life. Looking at Selena when she was killed, she looked like she was middle aged which would have meant that the Joker and Batman were old men too but the viewers were never given a time table as to how long ago it was that Batman and Selena hooked up. It looked as if the writers were going for a Dark Knight Returns motif with the Batman and Joker having their final battle, but the show was so impossible to tell that it could be mistaken for something else.

 

Batman leaving Gotham City is also just totally out of character for him and you do not have to be a comic book fan to see that. Even if Batgirl was crippled and Selena was killed, Batman would have not just up and left Gotham.

 

The show is like Dark Angle-lite and that is not a good way to start off things.

[Guest Lethargic]

There are things called "logic gaps" that do not tell the viewer what is going on and because of these problems the viewers are either A) confused B) forced to make up their own scenario or C) do not give a crap and will forget about the show about as quickly as the show rolled out it's logic gaps.

Have you ever read a Batman comic or watched the movies? That answers most of your questions.

 

"Is the Joker dead or alive?"

 

They said he was alive in the show. Once again, turn on your volume and these gaps you keep talking about seem to vanish for the most part. Actually I think it might turn out in a later show possibly that Batman did end up killing the Joker after all that happened and since he broke his ONE important rule of not killing anybody, that's why he left.

 

"How did the Joker find out that Barbara Gordon was Batgirl?"

 

Like somebody said, he could've followed her. Or maybe he found out through some sort of investigation. Or maybe we'll find this out for sure in later episodes. Not everything has to happen in the first episode. And quite frankly it doesn't have to happen at all. All your questions are about things that aren't on the show. This was just the first show. All they were doing is giving us a few hints about the character's past to set up their little group. It was just a way of getting the main characters hooked up so they can get on with the crime fighting. They don't need to explain all that crap because nobody cares and it's not important. Why does it matter HOW Joker found out? He did find out and he crippled her. That's all that is important to the storyline. If it ever becomes important to find out HOW he found her, they can explain it then. But I don't see why that would ever need to be known, it's really a complete non-issue. If you've ever read a Batman comic or watched the cartoon or the movies, you should be used to the Joker doing things like this that nobody could ever explain. He's a friggin SUPER VILLAIN. Super villains do that kind of shit.

 

"Why did Batman leave the town he once protected?"

 

The woman he loved was murdered. His psuedo-daughter was crippled. By a man that he had the chance to kill but didn't. He blamed himself for those things. He saw himself as doing more bad to Gotham than good. Or maybe that scenario I mentioned before.

 

"How did Helena acquire her powers if her parents had no powers of their own? If her parents did have super powers, why was the viewer not made aware of them?"

 

The viewer was made aware of Catwoman's powers in the movie. This show is a continuation of the movie series. If you've seen Batman Returns then you'll know that Catwoman DID have super powers. The general populations only real view of Catwoman since the 60's is that Catwoman. So I'd say most people watching it realize that. And if you can't realize it from that then seeing Helena having those powers and having CAT EYES should pretty much tell you that she got them from her Mother.

 

"How did Barbara find out about Helena?"

 

Maybe Selena told Barbara about the daughter? Or maybe Barbara figured it out. I mean, she's friggin Oracle. That's her character. She digs around in the computer and figures shit out. Just a guess. I really don't know and I still don't see why that or any of the rest of these questions matter. I'd say any actual plotholes in the story are there purely to be answered in future episodes. But none of these look like plot holes or logic gaps. It looks like completely un-needed information to the storyline. We don't need to know every single detail about why Batman left and how the Joker found Barbara because this show is NOT ABOUT Batman or the Joker, it's about the Birds of Prey. We just need to know Selena was murdered and Barbara was crippled. That's it. I don't need Basil Exposition to pop up and explain every single detail to me. If you can't read between the lines of the dialogue and pay attention to actual spoken lines that answers a lot of these question maybe you should stick with pop-up books. I was never confused by any of this stuff. None of these questions ever popped into my mind. It all made perfect sense to me. And from looking at the ratings it seems most people managed to understand it.

[Guest Mr. Pink]

Wait....

 

 

 

Catwoman has powers? What were they?

[Guest Vern Gagne]

The flashbacks took place 7 years ago. According to the website.

 

The lady with the shorthair at the end played Matthew Broderick's girlfriend in Ferris Bueller's Day off.

[Guest J*ingus]

The viewer was made aware of Catwoman's powers in the movie. This show is a continuation of the movie series. If you've seen Batman Returns then you'll know that Catwoman DID have super powers. The general populations only real view of Catwoman since the 60's is that Catwoman. So I'd say most people watching it realize that. And if you can't realize it from that then seeing Helena having those powers and having CAT EYES should pretty much tell you that she got them from her Mother.

What powers? She was a bit hard to kill in Batman Returns, yeah, but was otherwise completely human and normal.

[Guest MrRant]

Yeah I remember her taking a couple bullets but that is about it.

[Guest Kagato Otaku]

What powers? She was a bit hard to kill in Batman Returns, yeah, but was otherwise completely human and normal.

 

The ability to look good in skintight black vinyl, which is a known side-effect of being licked by a hundred cats after falling from a multi-story building.

 

Seriously - I don't think Catwoman had any super-powers. She was "killed" and shot repeatedly in Batman Returns out of some nine-lives motif the script had going. Nowhere else in the movie does it show her doing anything out of the ordinary, and certainly nothing physical like cat-eyes.

[The Dames 0]

Here's another thing to think about. In the beginning of the show, when giving the Catwoman/Batman backstory (and in the commercials as well), both are obviously white. How is it that their daughter is a lot darker? She should be white as snow.

 

Just sayin.

 

Dames

[Guest JHawk]

Here's another thing to think about. In the beginning of the show, when giving the Catwoman/Batman backstory (and in the commercials as well), both are obviously white. How is it that their daughter is a lot darker? She should be white as snow.

 

Just sayin.

 

Dames

Maybe one of her ancestors had a fling with Thomas Jefferson?

[Guest Tony149]

I think people say Catwomen has powers because she was brought back to life by cats, and had 9 lives.

[Guest Lethargic]

Catwoman didn't have "super powers" like flying and heat vision, but she was ressurected from the dead and she went from being just a normal dumpy chick to being a total athletic ass kicker, abilities she didn't have before she died, powers she got from the cats, which I'd say is technically "super powers". Pretty much the same as Huntress without the eyes. Huntress doesn't appear to have super powers, she's just quick and can jump high and crap like that.

[Guest EL BRUJ0]

Have you ever read a Batman comic or watched the movies?

 

That this was directed at Sassquatch is funny on so many levels.