Big Smackdown! Ratings Drop

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Why can't Vince just hire professional writers?  Why do wrestling companies always have to use wrestlers and other amateurs?

[Guest Tony149]

Vince has a few writers that come from late night talk shows ie. Late Night with Conan O'Brien.

[Guest Brian]

Vince does higher professional writers. His agents are mostly former wrestlers, but aside from Shane and Steph who had to earn their way, his writers are all former professionals.

[Guest goodhelmet]

"but aside from Shane and Steph who had to earn their way"

 

how in the hell did Steph and Shane EARN their way?

[Guest Tony149]

Shane use to set up the rings and Steph used to answer phones or something. Man, how I wished Steph still answered phones.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

They should bring back whoever booked from about Januaray 2000 to August or September 2000.

[Guest converge241]

Steph used to answer phones or something. Man, how I wished Steph still answered phones.

 

Heh

How many people would stay on the line with that shrill voice?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Well, with about 3 straight shows of really bad wrestling (The Raw where NWO killed rock had a very good Angle vs HHH), and with the Wwf being the Wwf, there SHOULD be a really good match on this weeks Raw or Smackdown.  It has been a habit for them to suck for a couple of shows and try and bring back everyone with a really good match or two.  You know, a pick me up.

[Guest Tony149]

Steph used to answer phones or something. Man, how I wished Steph still answered phones.

 

Heh

How many people would stay on the line with that shrill voice?

It would keep her off TV.

[Guest mastermind]

You know the ratings are a tricky thing. When the wwf was most consistent with the ratings in 1999 I thought the product sucked for the most part. I think the higher the ratings the worse the show actually is in quality. I mean look at the stupid this is your life segment. I also think it also proves it's not the damn wrestlers causing this. Sure blame Hogan this week. I don't recall Hogan being on every segment of the show. It's the WHOLE show that isn't keeping people interested. Before it was Triple H's fault in January. Before that it was Ric Flair's fault for not keeping the audience. Before that it was Rock's and before that and before that.

 

It's pretty damn simple what the problem is. The whole show just isn't interesting. The wwf is writing team is writing pretty much a crappy show. I think the over ridiculous car crash made people tune in, but tune back out. It's the over dramatic stuff like that which turns some people off. The beatdown in the ring was great with The Rock. He could have been hospitalized from just that attack. Wasn't he in the hosptial the week before with the concussion? You see the writing is inconsistent without following up on things.

 

The wwf has a freaking goldmine of wrestlers, so I don't blame the wrestlers. When most of the time they are called to put on solid matches they do. It's the dumb and unrealistic storylines like Booker and Edge are in now. How does that relate to you wanting to see Edge and Booker fight in a match? I said before the wwf has to start remembering its a damn WRESTLING show. Yeah, entertainment entertainment. No one in ther right minds watch wrestling with ideas of seeing young and the restless or gone with the wind. I'm not saying storylines aren't important because they are. It's how they are presented. I still find last year's storyline with Austin and Rock completely stupid. It had nothing to do with the actual match. Where was Debra? Steph and Trips arguing over "crappy ecw company" doesn't make you want to see a match. Austin using a toy gun net machine tomfoolery. You wonder why they can't keep a strong rating throughout the show?

 

Another thing. People have to realize that when the NWO was in their peak they were getting in the low 4's. It's unreasonable now to think they will double the ratings. It aint going to happen.

[Guest Army Eye]

Well they were getting 4's running against Raw.  Raw is unopposed now.  But yeah, no way a rating doubling is going to happen.

[Guest converge241]

hey im all for her off tv. just that though of that voice and the poor saps on the phone lines

[Guest El Hijo Del Lunatic]

Guys, 411 is wrong.

 

From Zap2it.com:

It seems no one can beat NBC on Thursday, which took a 14.5 rating/22 share on Thursday night. CBS remains as its closest competition with a 12.9/20. ABC was a distant third with a 5.6/9, while UPN slipped to fourth, 5.3/8, still over FOX, 3.1/5, and The WB, 2.8/4.

 

I'm not a smart man (ok, I am), but since SmackDown is the only thing UPN shows in the 8-10 range (which is what's being reported), I'd say Smackdown got a 5.3 rating.  USAToday.com and Mediaweek.com both confirm that.  "Whose Line is it Anyway?" scored a 3.8/6 for ABC in the overnights from 8-9.  That's probably where the confusion lies.  

 

The overnights say SmackDown went UP.  It'll actually settle probably somewhere in the 4.2-4.3 range, which isn't that much of a dropoff from last week's.  So the question here is moot.

[Guest mastermind]

I think channel surfing was going on A LOT when Nitro and RAW were competing. On one channel you had guys like Hogan and Flair mixed in with Goldberg and Jericho in 1998. On the wwf side you had guys like Rock and Austin. So it was much easier to just flip to the segment a person liked at a given time. Now since everyone is basically in the same company not everyone gets to shine on Monday. Both RAW and Nitro were getting pretty much the same 4 rating at the peak of the rivalry. Things started to shift toward the wwf when guys like Big Show and Jericho started jumping in 1999. 2000 followed suit with the Radicalz. Not to mention wcw was screwing up with the talent. That's why I say the ratings are tricky. I think the ppv buys and house show numbers are more important. Even the merchandise numbers are tricky because how many Austin, NWO, or Rock shirts can a person buy?

[Guest El Luchadore Magnifico]

El Hijo, 5.3 was Smackdown's overnight rating. It did settle at a final, overall rating of 3.8. If you'll go back and look in 411's news archives, you'll see a story about Smackdown's overnight being 5.3.

 

And I'd have to agree that it is the writer's fault in this case. Hogan is still a draw, simply for nostalgia purposes. The nWo as a whole is still a draw, for the same reason. The problem is is that they can't draw by themselves. If someone could throw together a mildly-interesting storyline, I'm sure that a lot more people would be watching.

 

Probably.

[Guest Blue Bacchus]

I don't believe the Ratings Drop is due to the nWo or the Orange Goblin. It's so easy to blame the talent. The problem lies with the fans and the writers. No, not the core fans. But the casual fans. Everytime the Casual Fan stops watching, the Writers panic and hit the button. They try anything (Mostly Putting Steph on TV... ugh) to regain the Casual Fan. It's like when you hydro plane and over compensate. You end up in one hell of a wreck.

[Guest Brian]

Shane worked his way up the ladder; setting up the ring, refereeing, all the low-end jobs. Steph basically gave up her life starting with the phone service, working her way up to being Vince's secretary traveling with him and working eight-teen hour days, then sitting in on booking meetings just to learn and not being able to talk. Vince made sure they weren't handed anything, so no one could complain.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

it's not just the nWo ngle the overall shape of the wwf is why the ratings are on a downswing

[Guest mastermind]

Last night I was at a friend's house who is a casual fan. He was channel surfing and LiveWire or something was on. I just hoped the guy would just pass by it because I knew what would be the joke of the night. He knows I'm a big fan, so I guess he just wanted to watch for some jokes on me. Sadly, I think there are some reasons why the wwf has an image problem and people tune in one week and then tune out. Within 4 minutes this is what I grasped from him.

 

During the show we saw Hall's attack on Austin. He made the joke about the cinder block. He said "yo, that was real?". "Um, Austin's leg should be mush". I replied to the real response by saying that joke is so 1989 and he didn't even get what I meant by that. So writers there is one example why fans turn away. Stupid unbelievable attacks. He then started to talk about Hogan smashing a semi into an ambulance. He said this is just getting too stupid. He didn't really realize Hogan's a heel. He said "that is what mr. good guy Hogan does now?".

 

We see Austin and the net thing. I just told him change the channel before the "gun incident". He didn't as he said "watch I bet an anvil drops on Razor or Diesel". Of course the stupid net thing happened and he laughed saying this is what big grown men do? After that we saw the SmackDown main event and he saw Kane and asked if that was Undertaker wearing a mask now. Seriously asked me that. My other friend said you haven't watched this in a long time have you?

 

I tried to talk about Angle thinking about going back to the Olympics to show them these guys are at least real athletes. No one responded. I don't know I just thought this would give some insight into what a casual fan sees in the current product.

[Guest Rabies]

Blame Vince. In the end, the finger will end up pointing at him, where it should be.

[Guest buffybeast]

I think Survivor 4 debuted Thursday night against SD, that probably had a lot to do with the lower ratings.

[Guest Loss4Words]

The reason Steph is still writing everything is that Vince is trying to make sure his company is going to be okay once he leaves. If Steph doesn't learn to write properly and Shane doesn't show any interest in the creative side of things, then how in the hell is the WWF going to survive in the future once Vince hands over the reigns? The only way Stephanie can learn to book is to keep booking and booking and booking until she finally figures it out.

 

Also, blaming Steph is so sexist and markish. Just because you don't like her heel character (a character which is annoying BY FUCKING DESIGN for crying out loud), don't blame her for the bad shows. Ultimately, all blame for every single thing wrong with the WWF lies at the feet of Vince McMahon. It's not Steph's fault that she's writing bad shows, it's her dad's fault for putting her in that position before she was ready for it. Because like it or not, everyone seems to think Shane, but Stephanie is going to be the more visible company head for the next 25-30 years at least. She'll be the one doing the press conferences and running the company and the one calling the shots. It's imperative that she have RESPECT from the locker room for the company to be successful in the future, because like it or not, within 10 years from now she'll be the most powerful woman, nevermind, most powerful person in the wrestling business ... period.

 

Steph is a woman in a man's world and that's a big part of the problem here. It's hard for anyone to take her seriously when she asserts herself because they still see her as daddy's little girl. That means she HAS to be staying in charge of booking from here on out for public perception more than anything.

 

In fairness, that also means that her dad needs to stop vetoing her ideas and he needs to resume his usual role that is much less hands-on. Everyone has ignored this because they apparently think all women are stupid, but it has been reported countless times over the past few months that Steph's position right now is more of a title than anything and that Vince is taking a more hands-on approach than he's ever taken to the weekly TV.

 

STOP BLAMING STEPHANIE JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE HER HEEL CHARACTER! I can't stress that enough. If you wanna talk about wrestling from an inside perspective, leave your personal preferences at the door and go for it. If you want to talk about wrestling from a fan perspective, that's great too. But it usually kills companies when promoters do it and looks awfully foolish when we do it too.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

The reason Steph is still writing everything is that Vince is trying to make sure his company is going to be okay once he leaves. If Steph doesn't learn to write properly and Shane doesn't show any interest in the creative side of things, then how in the hell is the WWF going to survive in the future once Vince hands over the reigns? The only way Stephanie can learn to book is to keep booking and booking and booking until she finally figures it out.

 

Also, blaming Steph is so sexist and markish. Just because you don't like her heel character (a character which is annoying BY FUCKING DESIGN for crying out loud), don't blame her for the bad shows. Ultimately, all blame for every single thing wrong with the WWF lies at the feet of Vince McMahon. It's not Steph's fault that she's writing bad shows, it's her dad's fault for putting her in that position before she was ready for it. Because like it or not, everyone seems to think Shane, but Stephanie is going to be the more visible company head for the next 25-30 years at least. She'll be the one doing the press conferences and running the company and the one calling the shots. It's imperative that she have RESPECT from the locker room for the company to be successful in the future, because like it or not, within 10 years from now she'll be the most powerful woman, nevermind, most powerful person in the wrestling business ... period.

 

Steph is a woman in a man's world and that's a big part of the problem here. It's hard for anyone to take her seriously when she asserts herself because they still see her as daddy's little girl. That means she HAS to be staying in charge of booking from here on out for public perception more than anything.

 

In fairness, that also means that her dad needs to stop vetoing her ideas and he needs to resume his usual role that is much less hands-on. Everyone has ignored this because they apparently think all women are stupid, but it has been reported countless times over the past few months that Steph's position right now is more of a title than anything and that Vince is taking a more hands-on approach than he's ever taken to the weekly TV.

 

STOP BLAMING STEPHANIE JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE HER HEEL CHARACTER! I can't stress that enough. If you wanna talk about wrestling from an inside perspective, leave your personal preferences at the door and go for it. If you want to talk about wrestling from a fan perspective, that's great too. But it usually kills companies when promoters do it and looks awfully foolish when we do it too.

Point 1: Blaming steph isn't sexist, we aaren't saying stephanie doesn't know what she's doing because she's a woman.

 

Point 2: It IS stephanie's fault that she's writing bad shows, it's vince's fault that he lets her write the stuff but ultimatly she's the one responsible for what she writes.

 

Point 3: Everything wrong with the wwf can't b left complety at Vince's feet, he's one man controlling an empire so he has to delegate responsibilty, and ot everyone is up to the task the only way to find out who's ready is to give them the opportunity.

[Guest Brian]

"Point 2: It IS stephanie's fault that she's writing bad shows, it's vince's fault that he lets her write the stuff but ultimatly she's the one responsible for what she writes."

 

Point taken, Vince is still the last person that sees the shows before they get produced. Steph may be head of the writing team, but the only time a McMahon has ever been known to take full control of the book is Vince, and he's frustrated many a writers doing it in the last few months. If you want to look at a typically structured booking meeting w/o Vince taking full power, here ya go:

 

1. Head writer opens up, conveying their thoughts and direction

2.Other writers argue, look over, and give their own thoughts

Goes to agents

Goes to Vince

Comes back to booking team and agents

Vince for finalization

 

Heyman had her ear as well as HHH's, yet he takes no blame.

[Guest Brian]

"Point 2: It IS stephanie's fault that she's writing bad shows, it's vince's fault that he lets her write the stuff but ultimatly she's the one responsible for what she writes."

 

Point taken, Vince is still the last person that sees the shows before they get produced. Steph may be head of the writing team, but the only time a McMahon has ever been known to take full control of the book is Vince, and he's frustrated many a writers doing it in the last few months. If you want to look at a simpleton's version of a booking meeting w/o Vince taking full power, here ya go:

 

1. Head writer opens up, conveying their thoughts and direction

2. Other writers argue, look over, and give their own thoughts

3. Goes to agents

4. Goes to Vince

5. Comes back to booking team and agents

6. Vince for finalization

 

Heyman had her ear as well as HHH's, yet he takes no blame.

[Guest Dr. Wrestlingphysics]

It's a cycle of shite.

The Raw ratings are fairly consistant, but the previews and spoilers for Smackdown have recently been full of nothing but Raw re-caps, the next  Raw then re-caps anything new from the last Smackdown, so nobody's going to miss anything by only watching one show a week.

I'm all for brief re-caps of angles and feuds to make sure all the viewers are up to speed, but when that's all the shows are full of, there's nothing to persuade us to make time to watch the shows because if we miss anything, it'll soon be re-capped.

[Guest RickyB]

The reason Steph is still writing everything is that Vince is trying to make sure his company is going to be okay once he leaves. If Steph doesn't learn to write properly and Shane doesn't show any interest in the creative side of things, then how in the hell is the WWF going to survive in the future once Vince hands over the reigns? The only way Stephanie can learn to book is to keep booking and booking and booking until she finally figures it out.

 

Also, blaming Steph is so sexist and markish. Just because you don't like her heel character (a character which is annoying BY FUCKING DESIGN for crying out loud), don't blame her for the bad shows. Ultimately, all blame for every single thing wrong with the WWF lies at the feet of Vince McMahon. It's not Steph's fault that she's writing bad shows, it's her dad's fault for putting her in that position before she was ready for it. Because like it or not, everyone seems to think Shane, but Stephanie is going to be the more visible company head for the next 25-30 years at least. She'll be the one doing the press conferences and running the company and the one calling the shots. It's imperative that she have RESPECT from the locker room for the company to be successful in the future, because like it or not, within 10 years from now she'll be the most powerful woman, nevermind, most powerful person in the wrestling business ... period.

 

Steph is a woman in a man's world and that's a big part of the problem here. It's hard for anyone to take her seriously when she asserts herself because they still see her as daddy's little girl. That means she HAS to be staying in charge of booking from here on out for public perception more than anything.

 

In fairness, that also means that her dad needs to stop vetoing her ideas and he needs to resume his usual role that is much less hands-on. Everyone has ignored this because they apparently think all women are stupid, but it has been reported countless times over the past few months that Steph's position right now is more of a title than anything and that Vince is taking a more hands-on approach than he's ever taken to the weekly TV.

 

STOP BLAMING STEPHANIE JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE HER HEEL CHARACTER! I can't stress that enough. If you wanna talk about wrestling from an inside perspective, leave your personal preferences at the door and go for it. If you want to talk about wrestling from a fan perspective, that's great too. But it usually kills companies when promoters do it and looks awfully foolish when we do it too.

You're completely right, Stephanie McMahon is probably the best option for someone who takes over control of the company when Vince Leaves simply because she has other qualities as well as booking the shows because she worked with Vince for a long time as a secretery before she had any real role in the WWF.

 

I agree that a lot of people blame Stephanie for things that they wouldn't blame a man for.  And the ECW/WCW Alliance thing was Paul Heyman's idea from bringing them in and teaming them with WCW to having Stephanie control the company.  So don't blame her for that either.

[Guest mastermind]

I disagree that people blame Stephanie because she's a woman. I mean it isn't a secret the ratings have gone down since she took over. Yeah, Vince over sees the final product, but do you honestly believe he's going to have the time to change every damn thing about the show? He might as well write the shows himself. It's also what L4W said. He wants his daughter's position to be taken seriously, so of course he will be more lenient with her work. If it was an outside person say like Russo or Heyman running he would exercise his power more. Personally, I think it's kind of true and false because as many say here Vince just basically oversees the program which Stephanie would be doing in a few years. Hell, Vince turned the product into sports entertainment. I worry Steph will turn it into sports soap opera.

 

I think Stephanie being a woman writing the show IS a problem. Look at the undisputed world title match at Mania's hype so far. It's not really about the defending champion Jericho. It's about him looking a bitch for Stephanie. It's about the impending divorce between Trips and Stephanie. Jericho is the side show to the storyline and he's the champion. Tell me this is not right.

 

I take you back to last year's world title match storyline. It had to do with Rock and Austin arguing over Debra. The title only became an integral part in the last week. The year before whoever was writing the main event storyline focused on Rock wanting to regain the title and Foley living out his dream to headline WrestleMania. Do you see the problem already? That year was the wwf's most consistent and entertaining year.

 

However, the main program was about Triple H and Stephanie's marriage and control over the wwf. I say this trend started to sink into the wwf's attitude era. The year before it was about Austin wanting to regain his title against Mcmahon's corporate champion. You see it's obvious that she is writing the show with too much soap opera tones and fans are now starting to tune out than stay with the program consistently.

 

During the Attitude Era the wwf was getting serious about realistic storylines based on life. Mcmahon the over bearing boss against the working class in Steve Austin. The Rock being a third generation superstar getting spoon fed a world title in a "rigged" tourney.

 

Since around the time of the love triangle the wwf has been pretty goofy. It got precedent over the wwf title. Steph supposedly slept with Angle the night of SummerSlam. Trips is put into a tweener position. So what is the outcome? Trips is the driver in the whodunit with Austin. We get the cartoon violence which Steph has told media outlets like eXtra. Trips surviving a forklift drop. How about the soap opera between the Hardys recently that has been dropped like a bad habit? I think there is a problem.

 

Oh, let's not forget she bought ecw and took the leadership over Paul Heyman who is designed to be a real life vigilante to corporate companies like the wwf and wcw. It would make a lot more sense for Heyman to have an outlaw group against Vince Mcmahon. Of course Steph has to write herself into the storyline because she needs the respect of the locker room. Yeah right. The current stupid thinking about getting a job you have to give it back.

 

Do you think Hogan would have become such a legend if one week he won over Bundy and then the next week he lost to Bundy? How about doing this with his feuds with Andre, Orndorff, Savage, Warrior, Dibsase, Perfect, etc.?

 

Some people just need to get the push for fans to see them as the man to beat heel or face. Ric Flair did his jobs, got them back because his gimmick played into that. If he never got the upper hand and ended the rivalries he wouldn't have become so legendary. Today we are getting storylines and feuds that don't have any conclusion or clear ending. Open and loose ends.

 

In some situations it's good because it creates a career feud. I'm still waiting to understand where Kane stands with his brother's current persona. They won't touch it when this is obviously a career feud. I'm not saying have them feuding every damn week, but long term consistency would be nice. Like back in the day when Andre turned heels who had beef with him commented on the turn and why he might have done it(Bobby Heenan an example). Heenan was a life long nemesis. Hogan/Orndorff feud is another. Stephanie is also basically just a modern day Missy Hyatte or Sherri. She doesn't need to be in all the damn segments.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Um, how does working as a secretary make her more qualified? Heyman doesn't get blamed as much for the faliure of the angle because it was taken over by the mcmahons and we don't have a bug in the titan towers to tell us exactly what's going on we can only form opinions from the few things that leak out.

[Guest Brian]

She worked her way up from secretary. But she was still sitting in on booking meetings and not being allowed to do anything for quite a while, plus helping run the corporate end of things.