Guest Mindless_Aggression Report post Posted October 20, 2002 You can kick me in the junk if this topic has been done like 15 times already. Be gentle though. Take your shoes off too. But yes! System Of A Down will be releasing their new album of "stuff that didn't make it onto Toxicity" November 26th of this year. Earth shattering, I know. Ah what can I say, it made me happy, I was all amped for the new Deftones album but fuck that, we're gonna push it back to 2003. Then SOAD made it better. Bastards. Lovable bastards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Agent of Oblivion Report post Posted October 20, 2002 If it's lame, I'm giving up on SOAD. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CoreyLazarus416 Report post Posted October 20, 2002 The difference between fans of System Of A Down and Toxicity is amazing... It's going to be a bunch of B-Sides and whatnot, so I guess I'll pick it up or add it onto the X-Mas list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Agent of Oblivion Report post Posted October 20, 2002 Toxicity was an ok follow-up, but the first album was a whole lot better. Less attention was paid to making songs that could be radio singles. Toxicity seemed to be made with singles in mind. Hopefully this third album is something different, if it's just more radio-friendly simple shit, they're really going to start to slip. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CoreyLazarus416 Report post Posted October 20, 2002 Au contraire, I believe Toxicity to be musically superior as more attention was paid to making songs that incorporate more than just fast-and-easy riffs, and a better overall SOUND than just the "hey, let's have Serj sing in his usual whiney voice and then scream over fast music that even the worst of guitarists can learn in under an hour!" Then again, I'm biased, as I prefer the more melodic route to music, and I know you, AoO, prefer a much more speed-flavored style. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest saturnmark4life Report post Posted October 20, 2002 well, as much as every fucker is into em now (shouldn't piss me off but i'm a purist WHORE at times) i can't fault either record. Except toxicity. naw, it's great, but i prefer the first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest redbaron51 Report post Posted October 20, 2002 Can you say... KORN! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted October 21, 2002 Yeah Korn sucks balls. Anyway, the thing with SOAD is that they're one of those bands whom I can't get into because of their fans. All these Armo kids at school who didn't even know who the fuck they were a year ago, all of a sudden getting all proud and shit and calling them the best band ever. So much so that they picked up a guitar, learned some SOAD songs, than realized there's alot more to playing than tablatures, alot more to playing which is actually difficult. This caused their guitars to either collect dust, or for those idiots to learn more songs, even though they can't play one scale. In short, fuck their fans and their stupid asses. I can't actually say anything about SOAD, their image is tarnished due to the stupidity of those that I mentioned previous. That is all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mindless_Aggression Report post Posted October 21, 2002 I'll agree with Corey Lazarus up there, Toxicity was a very very well done album with few flaws. But like him, I tend to enjoy more melodic stuff, so thats just me. In any case, both albums are very very good and it's always nice to see someone doing something different getting success. Of course the next album will be full of Dj Remixes and lots of guest appearances. God help us all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Agent of Oblivion Report post Posted October 21, 2002 Fuck all that melody crap. *Rips his own face off* Bands currently in my stereo: Dillinger Escape Plan Origin Neurosis Why bother with all those fancy-pants melodies when there's blasting, grooves, dischordant riffs, and screaming? Yet there's Rush in my car. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted October 21, 2002 Anyway, the thing with SOAD is that they're one of those bands whom I can't get into because of their fans. All these Armo kids at school who didn't even know who the fuck they were a year ago, all of a sudden getting all proud and shit and calling them the best band ever. So much so that they picked up a guitar, learned some SOAD songs, than realized there's alot more to playing than tablatures, alot more to playing which is actually difficult. This caused their guitars to either collect dust, or for those idiots to learn more songs, even though they can't play one scale. In short, fuck their fans and their stupid asses. I can't actually say anything about SOAD, their image is tarnished due to the stupidity of those that I mentioned previous. That is all. Yeah Korn sucks balls Agreed..Though their new album is a big step up from their other ones, until they released some other songs from the album and realized THEY'RE ALL THE FUCKING SAME! (Like Andrew WK...PARTY HARD! SHE IS BEAUTIFUL! PARTY HARD!) As for our System of a Down comments, in some points I agree with you wholeheartedly, but maybe the way in which you put it can be either misperceived, or I just disagree with entirely. You can't fault System of a Down for their fans, much like you can't fault the Oakland Raiders, Kurt Angle, or pretty much all of death metal for THEIR fans. These kids in high scholl and below don't know any better, is all I can say, and I agree it's pretty fucking gay when to fall into an identity that they think they want to fit into, they decide to go and start learning music and wear their badge on their sleeves as saying they're Systenm of a Down fans, because their music is so unique and kicks all kinds of ass, and compared with what they are normally exposed to (such as the shit on TRL and most of the stuff on MTV/VH1, etc.) that all of a sudden THEY think they're not beign trendy, THEY think they're being rebellious by going oh yeah I love SOAD, best band ever, fuck that "trendy: bullshit. Unfortunately what they don't realize, and what most high school kids don't realize, is that they are "against being trendy" when THAT IN ITSELF IS *THE* FUCKING TREND IN HIGH SCHOOL. It isn't until people graduate from high school that they learn to have their own identities and things to listen to, or have freedom in the world to go and do whatever they want, so that they can be exposed to a much wider variety of music. But you can't fuckin fault these kids for their mentality, because of that identity crisis. As annoying as they may be, record companies and MTV and all those fucks appeal to the kids by MAKING them seem like they're "fucking the trend" by buying this CD. That's how Korn has been making albums for the past decade or so, but the difference between Korn and SOAD is in the MUSIC AND LYRICS. You can fault Korn because they're a corporate band marketed towards kids, and jsut because the people who signed SOAD are marketing to these high school fucks with identity crisises doesn't mean that System necessarily supports that kind of attitude or fanship (if that's even a word). They jsut want to make good music, have fun, and get their message out to the world, while at the same time gettign rich. It's the biggest reason to be a musician, considerign you do little work for a lot of money, and there isn't one fucking person on this board that wouldn't want to do it if they could. But you can't go and generalize ALL of System of a Down's fans, because there are some of us who have been there since their firsdt album came out, hell I have the 4-song demo copied to me by a friend down in LA who happens to be Serj's nephew-in-law, and thus how I became a System fan in the first place. You can't fault ME for the music that System puts out, I barely know who the fuck you are, and that's the same the other way around, so why should you care what other people think, and make a judgment on System's music ON YOUR OWN, and not based on what you see in schools and in society, because the way both are run are fucked up either ways. Rant Over... By the way I'll be first in line for thast Toxicity B-Sides. Fuck yeah. I've heard some stuff off the NEW album (the one in production for next year or 2004..including the PIZZA SONG~!), and it sounds a lot faster than Toxicity, but still keeping some melody in the songs. I heard it over the phone though, so I didn't hear it 100% fully well.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Agent of Oblivion Report post Posted October 21, 2002 you can't fault...pretty much all of death metal for THEIR fans. What fans? The thing about death metal is, is that it appeals to such a small demographic, that it's fucking pointless to try to start a death band to make money. Anyone who does usually gets sniffed out immediately and ridiculed, since it's so fucking stupid. There's just no money in it. Some of the bigger bands like Cannibal Corpse have made some decent cash, but believe me, they're the minority, and most of that is by coincidence more than anything. Pretty much all death bands are playing that music because they truly enjoy it; getting rich isn't the main goal, because, well, there aren't any fabulously wealthy death metal, black metal, hardcore, or ESPECIALLY grindcore bands. CC, Cradle of Filth, and say, Hatebreed are the only examples like that, and about 25% of the scene as a whole is really into them anyway. At least in my experience anyway. Why do you think there are so many split cd's that are half one band and half another? It's because those bands can't quite shell out the cash to go in and record an EP by themselves when it's more cost efficient to get a second band and split the cost of a whole album, that way, two bands get some exposure (the good kind) without having to literally go broke in the process, since the entire genre pretty much survives on word of mouth advertising, and tours. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted October 21, 2002 you can't fault...pretty much all of death metal for THEIR fans. What fans? The thing about death metal is, is that it appeals to such a small demographic, that it's fucking pointless to try to start a death band to make money. Anyone who does usually gets sniffed out immediately and ridiculed, since it's so fucking stupid. There's just no money in it. Some of the bigger bands like Cannibal Corpse have made some decent cash, but believe me, they're the minority, and most of that is by coincidence more than anything. Pretty much all death bands are playing that music because they truly enjoy it; getting rich isn't the main goal, because, well, there aren't any fabulously wealthy death metal, black metal, hardcore, or ESPECIALLY grindcore bands. CC, Cradle of Filth, and say, Hatebreed are the only examples like that, and about 25% of the scene as a whole is really into them anyway. At least in my experience anyway. Why do you think there are so many split cd's that are half one band and half another? It's because those bands can't quite shell out the cash to go in and record an EP by themselves when it's more cost efficient to get a second band and split the cost of a whole album, that way, two bands get some exposure (the good kind) without having to literally go broke in the process, since the entire genre pretty much survives on word of mouth advertising, and tours. That wasn't the point of the statement. The point was to prove that the Oakland Raiders (stereotypically gangbandgers or whackos with black and sivler facepaints and Halloween costumes), Kurt Angle (web geeks who are completely biased against anyone who is not Kurt Angle), or death metal (people who don't think anyone listens to their music except for them, but I know quite a few people who listen to that shit, and I am not even in their subculture...thus proving my point by your reply) It is pointless to try to star ta death band to make money, however, you do realize that these guys still make a LOT more money than most people could hope to have, otherwise they'd be like myself and a bunch of other musicians trying to make it who would be working their asses off in a full time job aside from doing the band. I personally don't know if my statement holds true or not, but I would welcome you to prove me wrong: Death metal bands, while although not popular with the main stream, are still popular enough to make enough money to not need a full-time job on the side to get by. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Agent of Oblivion Report post Posted October 21, 2002 Most of the people I've talked to do other things like studio work on the side. Most of the guys in the semi-bigger name bands just do the band, but they don't make rock star money. They're making a, upper middle-class amount of money, if that, and they're touring all the time. There's some that make it, though, but that's true with any genre, really. As far as local circuits and tours and things go, lots of them are sacrificing hours at a day job, and money as a result. With things like that, it really depends on how big the scene is in that area for THAT particular style for someone to actually make money instead of losing it. for instance, if you're a black metal band trying to break in America, fucking forget about it. In europe, that's a whole different story, but by and large, an American black metal band is broke. It really varies from area to area, but all too often, it's like indy wrestlers, driving a couple hundered miles for a club show with about 40 people there, and that's including the 4 or 5 bands, their girlfriends and shit, and anyone who came with them, so that's really about 20-25 paid at about 5 bucks a head. The venue guy takes a small cut, which leaves about $20 per band, might be enough for gas to get back, but usually a band unlucky enough to be stuck in a shitty scene loses an extraordinary amount of money in the span of a year or two, at which point they either throw a show in their hometown to pay for an EP, or else break up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted October 21, 2002 The fact that they do upper-middle class money really is quite enough when you think about it. If you can make a living based on your fanship (of which I'm sure I know close to 50% of according to your estimates of death metal fanship). Sure they may not make millions or hundreds of thousands of dollars, but considerign their exposure and all, they still make enough to live, and live comfortably, and when all you really do is make music, that's enough, since music is a job in which you can choose your own hours, put it out to the world and hope enuogh people like it so that you will make some money off of it. So if you're making an upper-middle class salary, that should imply enough people like it to support you doing that and that alone. But the problem with that argument about the local circuits and tours is that it doesn't apply really to just death metal, that applies to all metal bands, like my old one. One time we had to do a Battle of the Bands near a high school with an absolutely monstrous punk following, and we were a pretty much speed metal band ala SOAD/Pantera/Slipknot. We got there and we were setting up and we were jsut about to think we were going to lsoe because of the fanbase, but then our drummer went and I guess pimped out a few girls in the crowd to make the guys go crazy for us and it worked, to a certain extent, as the 10-20 fans we had made up for the rest of the crowd of 200 or so, and we won the damn competition. Then again, they did have me as their lead singer and that probably helped Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Agent of Oblivion Report post Posted October 21, 2002 I had to suppress a gag reflex when you said speed metal and Slip_not in the same sentence, but the taste of sewage and old cabbage is gone, and is beside the point anyway. These guys are making middle class money for say, 1-3 years. That's if they're both really good, and REALLY fucking lucky. After that, it's back to the ol' job. Sure, good times for a while, but nothing to base a career on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CoreyLazarus416 Report post Posted October 21, 2002 If you're a death metal band and you want to make money, move to Europe or South America. The music is still a whole lot more popular in Europe and South America than it will ever be in North America, so moving bands to locations where the audience is would be the best plan of attack for success. Back to the real point at hand, though. You can't fault the preacher for the followers. I don't fault System Of A Down for their fans, because the majority of their fans are just let's-like-this-band-until-the-next-album due to the way a teenage mind works. Luckily, I've outgrown the average teenage mind... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Your Paragon of Virtue 0 Report post Posted October 22, 2002 Hehe, I didn't think my outburst of anger directed at SOAD "fans" would've gotten so much attention. Well I don't blame SOAD, there's just a lingering feeling that I can't get into the band because of their fans. I still like them, sorta, but I think it can be so much more if I went to a different school. It's just a case of other people viewing them way too highly, and giving them way too much credit. I can't give them a fair judgement, basically. C'est la vie. EDIT: What's up with that "No French" rule in the Church of No Maam anyway? I just read that, and that's what popped into my head. Just curious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted October 22, 2002 I had to suppress a gag reflex when you said speed metal and Slip_not in the same sentence, but the taste of sewage and old cabbage is gone, and is beside the point anyway. Heh, you know I had doubts when writing that sentence if I should have put Slipknot in there or not, but that just about answers my question.. Back to the real point at hand, though. You can't fault the preacher for the followers. I don't fault System Of A Down for their fans, because the majority of their fans are just let's-like-this-band-until-the-next-album due to the way a teenage mind works. Luckily, I've outgrown the average teenage mind... That's pretty much the condensed version of my little mini-rant. Good to see someone agreees with me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Agent of Oblivion Report post Posted October 22, 2002 If you're a death metal band and you want to make money, move to Europe or South America. The music is still a whole lot more popular in Europe and South America than it will ever be in North America, so moving bands to locations where the audience is would be the best plan of attack for success. Especially when you're talking about black metal. Death bands can make a little money in the states, but grind bands are pretty broke no matter where they are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CoreyLazarus416 Report post Posted October 22, 2002 Because nobody really wants to hear grind, and with good cause Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Agent of Oblivion Report post Posted October 23, 2002 Dude, do you REALLY want a third face-ripping? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
