Guest mach7 Report post Posted October 25, 2002 Enjoy your obscurity, Juvi. You won't be missed. Agreed. Juventud has never been anything more than a wannabe combination of Rey Mysterio & The Rock. I've never seen anything special out of him. Than you've never seen him in Mexico, because he was better than both those guys at one point. Yes, I'm sure he was very impressive doing 700 billion versions of an armdrag. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted October 25, 2002 Hey......if you were in the beginning of a new job and you're told the way you need to do your job, and you do the exact opposite.......do you think you would last there long? With that being said, Juvi is a good worker and probably never intended to work for WWE. IT was just a public F-U to them. And i think it would be so dumb to hire the freakin LOD.... I saw them in a WWA PPV and they were freakin terrible and out of shape. I also don't think they would be very over anymore either. Their era has passed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted October 25, 2002 Why does everyone totally play down the influence of lucha as being some crazy fliers dong arm-drags and pescadoes with no selling? Uggh, it's ignorance at it's finest. Juventud Guerrera was at a point one of the top heels in the world, the best rudo in Mexico in 1995-6. He was an awesome mat worker, who was total dick in the ring. They do the ultra cool mat work for extended periods that seems so passive on first look but are surprisingly complex because of their subtlety. Really built off the Santo/Casas mat work and the high spots. Juventud was a world class mat worker before he went to WCW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest notJames Report post Posted October 25, 2002 The operative word is "was". If there is evidence of him working as good now as he did then, I'll change my tune. But as it stands, I am not impressed. Especially when his most effective move is the Miracle Ecstasy Naked Freak Out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted October 25, 2002 Of course he was. But that version of Juventud, before he got to the US, is missed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted October 25, 2002 Just like I said before, if Juvi got instructions before the match, and then went out there and did the exact opposite, I don't think he was exactly expecting a callback. Also remember that Juvi is not the most stable guy, and was probably thinking less "Better do what they say so I can start getting those sweet checks" and more "Tell me slow down!? Fuck you meng!". As for LoD, they would be a total fucking joke. Just like the rest of the tag division. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cynicalprofit Report post Posted October 26, 2002 Maybe Juvi didnt understand teh instructions, anyone know who he fought? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest D'Lo White Report post Posted October 26, 2002 Juventud whould just get stuck on Velocity anyway. You know you all want to see LOD 3000. Admit it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest permagrinning Report post Posted October 26, 2002 sorry to say this, but this board has turned into nothing but a bunch of dim wit marks. All I see over and over on this topic is juvy fucked up, what a dumb mexican. The dude's been in the business for years now. He's worked WCW, worked in Mexico (obviously) and likely japan here and there. He's been a part of indy shows and indy-wannabe-big shows too. What I'm saying, is he's been around, he knows what he's fucking doing. If he wanted to work for WWE then he would've complied. Obviously, the man could give a shit, but all I read over and over is what a dumb shit. Why's he a dumb shit? Because he didn't go to the almighty WWE? Fuck them, they're nothing but pure shit. And people eat it up while complaining. How many people do you see bitch over and over but still, right on top of current WWE events and news and rumors and injuries. Fuck the WWE. Good for Juvi, they wanted something he wasn't. So he ended it before he got buried. He may not have much left, but I think he has more integrity than most the wrestlers in WWE conforming to the punchy socky WWE style. All in the name of money? Fuck, it became money but didn't start out that way. Virtually no one makes money starting, but they're willing to whore out for all the money in the world once a character is created. LOD? Dude, those bags of horse shit shouldn't even be called wrestlers anymore. A couple of hasbeens that should've been never-beens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest IB2BLACK Report post Posted October 26, 2002 Dude; wrestling is fake. But it's also, about feeding your family and trying to make name for yourself. If he didn't care why did he show up? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Spaceman Spiff Report post Posted October 26, 2002 Why's he a dumb shit? Because he didn't go to the almighty WWE? Fuck them, they're nothing but pure shit. You know what the WWE *is*? A steady, guaranteed paycheck. If he wants to kick around the indies, performing in front of 500 people (if he's lucky), and making a lot less than he would in the WWE, more power to him. I think it's crazy to pass up the chance for the guaranteed money, so that's why it makes him a dumb shit. Last time I checked, the grocery store doesn't accept "integrity" instead of money. Neither does the hospital if (hopefully he won't) gets hurt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest permagrinning Report post Posted October 26, 2002 again, it still comes down to his own personal choice. You weren't there, you don't know what was asked of him or what he was offered. All you know are the 'rumors' and you act like they're facts. He's been doing the shit for years, you think you know these facts better than him? How? How many years have you been wrestling? What shows have you done? Who've you worked for? All I'm saying is fine, bitch about him fucking up his chance to get into the WWE but it's stupid and ignorant to make personal attacks against him for them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted October 26, 2002 I'm guessing he would have been offered $500-$1000, which he could pick up (pretty easily) working indies, Puerto Rico, and Japan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest IB2BLACK Report post Posted October 26, 2002 What about the incident in Australia? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted October 26, 2002 And that was one incident people still hang on, just like they used to with Guerrero's, albeit Juventud has lost alot of his ability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Spaceman Spiff Report post Posted October 26, 2002 He's been doing the shit for years, you think you know these facts better than him? How? How many years have you been wrestling? What shows have you done? Who've you worked for? I don't have to be a wrestler to know that working for the WWE is the ultimate dream. Easier workload, safer working conditions, better and guaranteed pay. Sure, you'd likely have to sacrifice some/most of your moveset, but I'd take that trade-off. I think it's dumb to piss that away & completely burn your bridges, but if Juvy's happier working the indies, good for him. Wouldn't be my choice, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted October 26, 2002 Juventud could get just as much if he was working in Japan full-time and work as easier schedule. The WWE is the most demanding in terms of travel, and you're basically working three full length matches a week plus one for TV. I also don't get the safer working conditions since the WWE produces far more injuries, mainly knee tears, than any other situation I can think of. With Juvi's name value he can make nearly as much, if not more, on the indies alone. Juvi probably makes at least four hundred a night, and at least two night a week. At least. His downside will be around $500, maybe $750 a week like I said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted October 26, 2002 Why does everyone totally play down the influence of lucha as being some crazy fliers dong arm-drags and pescadoes with no selling?. nobody understands the Rudo style nor the importance of submissions in Mexico. Juvi vs Hurricane could be so entertaining Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted October 26, 2002 This isn't anything that hasn't been said before, but Juvy is in a very different situation from a guy like, say, Spanky. Juvi can work in Japan or North America pretty much when ever he pleases. He'd have a contract with WWE, and probably more money, but apparently he prefers to stay on the indies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Trivia247 Report post Posted October 26, 2002 I thought Hawk espically wouldn't set foot in the WWE again? get that Japanese guy the Power warrior to tag with Animal screw Hawk lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BaldFish Report post Posted October 26, 2002 AJ Styles basically told WWE to go fuck themselves when he was offered a developmental contract--it would appear that the developmental program is where they're making their financial cutbacks, instead of trimming the dead wood from the top. Stupid, that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Redhawk Report post Posted October 26, 2002 What's up with all this Juvi-Hating? 1. Everyone seems to say Juvi should have done what the bookers told him to, but then you turn right around and clown him for being a "ripoff of The Rock." What do you think Juvi was doing then? WHAT THE BOOKERS TOLD HIM. Besides, "Da Juice" was an entertaining character. 2. Even if Juvi doesn't have a great character/personality, it's not like rey Mysterio has needed one to get over. When was the last time rey even spoke on TV? During the Angle feud? If booked right -- as in not booked to be squashed by Big Show every night -- cruiserweights can get over. Look at Mysterio. 3. No matter how you try to slice it, there is no way in hell Hawk and Animal can be better for business or entertainment for WWE. A cruiser who just does "a bunch of armdrags" is going to pop the crowd (Rey Mysterio? Tajiri? Hurricane? Okay now.) more than a sloth-speed tag team (T & A, Show-Gunns, Billy-Chuck, Simmons-Henry). And if you wanna take the nostaglia route, just ask WCW how great Animal was for business as the mystery opponent. 4. Maybe Juvi shouldn't have told WWE to fuck off, but it just shows that there is something seriously wrong with WWE when they have to tell talent to NOT do good so they don't "show up" main eventers. And here's a thought. At the last wrestling show you went to, did you even remember who was in the dark match by the time the main event rolled around? The dark matches will never show up the main events for two reasons: name recognition and presentation/production values. People know who HHH and Taker are, and on top of that they get cool videos and music, an actual angle to help tell a story, and all of that. This whole "showing up" thing is only a result of main eventers being paranoid. 5. Just because Juvi (or anyone) doesn't work for WWE doesn't mean he's going to be a bum. You all act like all wrestlers know how to do is wrestle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest teke184 Report post Posted October 26, 2002 AJ Styles basically told WWE to go fuck themselves when he was offered a developmental contract--it would appear that the developmental program is where they're making their financial cutbacks, instead of trimming the dead wood from the top. Stupid, that. Styles turned down the developmental deal because: 1. It only paid 25,000 and 2. It would require he live in the Louisville, KY, area He has a business on the side that helps pay bills when he's not wrestling, so he makes FAR more by working the indys and landscaping lawns than he'd make for jobbing to David Flair in OVW (Yes, I know Flair's gone, but he was there when Styles was offered a contract in about April) As for the WWE's choice to cut developmental guys instead of dead wood, I questions whether you've been watching the product closely since Wrestlemania X-7. Vince doesn't like to fire ANY of "his" guys unless they want out, their contract expires, or they do something so stupid that he can't keep them around. It gets a lot easier to sacrifice a Ron "H20" Waterman or a Elix Skipper, neither of whom ever made the permanent WWE roster, than it is to release *their* worthless guys like Godfather or Billy Gunn, due to a combination of Vince's misguided loyalty and backroom politics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted October 26, 2002 I thought it was 50,000; which is still low-end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest the 1inch punch Report post Posted October 26, 2002 [As for the WWE's choice to cut developmental guys instead of dead wood, I questions whether you've been watching the product closely since Wrestlemania X-7. Vince doesn't like to fire ANY of "his" guys unless they want out, their contract expires, or they do something so stupid that he can't keep them around. It gets a lot easier to sacrifice a Ron "H20" Waterman or a Elix Skipper, neither of whom ever made the permanent WWE roster, than it is to release *their* worthless guys like Godfather or Billy Gunn, due to a combination of Vince's misguided loyalty and backroom politics. Waterman was fired because he looks like Scott Steiner Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest saturnmark4life Report post Posted October 26, 2002 well, i've never liked juvi, and granted i never saw him when he was 'good' but he just pisses me off anyways. About the dark match thing, you cannot justify guys being told to have a boring match because undertaker 'isn't feeling it'. I heard that straight after the demise of ecw, the FBI went against Doring/Roadkill in a dark match that was so good, they were accused of upstaging the talent and not offered jobs. retarded. Especially cos you'd think a dark match's main purpose would be to jack up the live crowd for the show. IDIOTS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest the 1inch punch Report post Posted October 26, 2002 well, i've never liked juvi, and granted i never saw him when he was 'good' but he just pisses me off anyways. About the dark match thing, you cannot justify guys being told to have a boring match because undertaker 'isn't feeling it'. I heard that straight after the demise of ecw, the FBI went against Doring/Roadkill in a dark match that was so good, they were accused of upstaging the talent and not offered jobs. retarded. Especially cos you'd think a dark match's main purpose would be to jack up the live crowd for the show. IDIOTS. That doesnt make a lot of sense considering Guido has a job with the WWE now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Smell the ratings!!! Report post Posted October 26, 2002 I heard that straight after the demise of ecw, the FBI went against Doring/Roadkill in a dark match that was so good, they were accused of upstaging the talent and not offered jobs. I remember this too. Wasn't it like not even a month after ECW went under? That's why I was so suprised when they hired Guido. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CoreyLazarus416 Report post Posted October 26, 2002 Lately, I haven't cared at all if a talent gets turned away from WWE. Why? Means more people that could appear on TNA Wednesday night. **eagerly awaiting EZ Money and Mike Sanders on TNA** Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ravenbomb Report post Posted October 26, 2002 why hire Juvi when you can hire... Atlantis? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
