Angle agrees to shoot fight

[Guest saturnmark4life]

BoxingInsider.com has posted a big article regarding WWE and their recent interest in promoting a boxing event.

 

The article states that Vince McMahon wants to run a PPV in Las Vegas, headlined by Brock Lesnar facing Lennox Lewis. The undercard would feature Michael Moorer (who wants $425,000 to do the fight) taking on Kurt Angle.

 

Both fights would be shoot fights and WWE hopes that both Lesnar and Angle win, setting up the highly anticipated Lesnar/Angle match.

 

Both Kurt Angle and Michael Moorer have already agreed to work the fight as long as the Brock/Lewis fight also happens.

 

The rules of the Lewis/Brock fight include the fact that Lewis WOULD be allowed to wear gloves and punch, while Brock would not be allowed to wear gloves or punch. The match judges would also be boxing judges which give Lewis (and Moorer) a big advantage.

 

Interestingly enough, fighting in Nevada under the boxing label means both Lesnar and Angle would have to be drug tested.

 

McMahon wants shoot fighters Ken Shamrock and Don Frye to train Lesnar and Angle. Some feel that Shamrock would be best due to his knowledge in submission holds while others feel Frye would be better since he has already trained Lesnar in the past.

 

Another big issue right now is how much time WWE will give Lesnar and Angle to train and prepare for the fights. Shoot fighters often get as much as 6 months off to prepare, but with the state that WWE is in right now, it would be hard to give both guys that much time off.

 

The plan right now is for Lennox Lewis to be brought in as a ref or ringside enforcer for a Brock Lesnar match. The two would start to go at it in that match, setting up a legit fight between the two.

 

Obviously with McMahon involved, many experts feel that nobody will believe it's real even if it is. Therefore, McMahon is considering not promoting the fights as much on WWE TV and using traditional boxing PPV hype methods to promote the show.

 

Credit: BoxingInsider.com

 

from 411

 

I'm not sure what i think about this yet, i guess wrestlers often win these though...

[Guest notJames]

If Angle/Lesnar can avoid a fist-fight, I don't see how the boxers can hope to win. Seems to me like the grapplers more often than not win out in these shoot matches.

 

Personally, I don't see why McMahon would even risk injuring two of his top-tier talent like this. Having them lose is one thing. Having them risk brain damage is an entirely different matter.

 

Money and publicity aren't that important.

[Guest saturnmark4life]

yeah, well, try telling that to Vince 'am i so out of touch? no, it's the public who are wrong' McMahon. This could officially kill brock's heat DEAD. Oh yeah and Angle's too...they are both in with a chance but it's pretty stupid.

[Guest DragonflyKid]

Money and publicity aren't that important.

 

This is Vinnie Mac we are talking about. It's all about money and pub.

 

 

I personally think they should go through with it, boxers are inferior fighters next to wrestlers and martial artists. If the rules are even(If the boxers are allowed to box and the wrestlers wrestle.) I think both Angle and Brock could win.

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

I'll preface this by saying I'm not into MMA, UFC, etc., and have not watched any of them either, so my shoot fighting expertise is severely limited -> non-existant.

 

But I can't see how Angle or Lesner could lose. Duck a punch or 2, go behind, takedown, make them submit. I know neither guy has shoot-fighting experience, but neither wouuld the boxers. Once the boxers are off their feet, they'd be in serious trouble. But, I could be wrong (wouldn't shock me).

[Guest evilhomer]

One name: Bart Gunn

 

He gained reasonable heat after winning the Brawl for All tournament, got his clock cleaned by Butterball, and dropped off the face of North America.

 

In a mixed fight, I'd have to go with the two wrestlers because of how they could tie up the boxers to prevent punches then go for the tap out, but anything could happen. The punching power of Lewis or even Moorer means that the fight could be over in two seconds, then take the careers of two top stars with it.

[Guest DragonflyKid]

The wrestlers will probably go for a low center of gravity, it would be hard for a boxer to hit them squarely if they do that. Wrestlers aren't going to stand straight up and go toe-to-toe with boxers, they'll probably go straight for a takedown and it'll be over pretty quick after that.

 

Bart Gunn was a brawler who faced an experienced and superior brawler and thus lost. This will be a situation that favors Angle and Lesnar.

[Guest notJames]

Great avatar, Rolling Chop. Rick Fox makes me ashamed to be a Canadian.

[Guest Brian]

Still benefits the wrestlers even with limited time on the ground as Lewis loses even more defense with the gloves and Brock's still going to be able to stretch him, especially with Shamrock and Frye training them.

[Guest Ace309]

Given a boxing vs. wrestling fight, in which the wrestler wrestles and the boxer boxes, all other things being equal (Brock being at the top of his grappling game, Lewis at the top of his boxing game, etc), the wrestler takes it 98 times out of 100.

 

He'd have to be trained, of course, but keep in mind that Randy Couture, current (I believe he's still current) UFC heavyweight champion came from a Greco-Roman wrestling background, and he deals admirably with strikers. Granted, the fight won't be INTERESTING for the average sportz entertainment fan, but Brock and Angle come away winners.

 

Bart Gunn was boxing Butterbean, was he not? Also, Gunn wasn't exactly a top-of-the-line grappler, iirc.

[Guest notJames]

Bart Gunn was boxing Butterbean, was he not? Also, Gunn wasn't exactly a top-of-the-line grappler, iirc.

Yes, the Bart/Butterbean match was toughman/boxing rules. No grappling.

 

Bart didn't have a chance.

[Guest Choken One]

Sounds interesting...Although Would Lewis be a big enough Draw? Have Tyson as a Commentator.

[Guest Human Fly]

Is it worth the risk though? What happens if Angle or Lesnar lose? Then you have someone who's heat will go way down and all your planning for a Wrestlemania ME will go down the drain. This will get mainstream press too. Do you want to run the risk of Brock on Sportscenter getting knocked out in 15 seconds?

 

That being said I think the rules favor the wrestler, but I just don't know if the potential payoff outweighs the potential risk.

[Guest Choken One]

Good Point...Which is why I really think they should quietly Plan the Angle/Moorer match...just to guranntee a win.

[Guest razazteca]

nothing good can come from this, the matches will end up like the Shamrock vs Severn borefest or that time the boxer thought it was a good idea to wear one glove to a fight.

 

in MMA the grappler wins the majority of the time, once your on the ground the fight is over. I would like to see Brock bust out the Mark Coleman Neck Crank!!!!!

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Unless Brock or Kurt take a face shot shooting in I don't see how they could lose. If Brock was to get Lewis down you'd think Lewis would panic and scramble, thus letting Brock throw in a huge submission. And with gloves they're even more limited on the ground.

 

Although if Angle or Lesner loses I think it would embarass the WWE.

 

Do you think they'll have the set up like they did with Ali/Inoki? Where they had Ali beat a few gimmicked wrestlers and Inoki beat a few gimmicked boxers?

 

With Bart Gunn. He really wasn't thought to win the Brawl For All...it was a legit tournament to start with...but after Bart beat William's ass they gimmicked him to win it...although everyone in the world knew what Butterbean was going to do to him.

[Guest razazteca]

it depends on what rules are use, but it just be a watered down PRIDE match at best or Shamrock vs Severn borefest with them just walking in circles for 15 minutes. Or it could be like K-1 with short rounds and judges deciding the winner.....this is the safest style to use.

[Chunk 0]

I really dont see the point in this happening. If they dont promote via WWE TV (which i agree they shouldnt because it will look like a work) then no of your "sports entertainment" fans will watch it. And the ones that do will find it horribly boring compared to the usual "main events" they see.

 

Therefore, even if angle and brock win, it could go relatively un-noticed. Sure ppl would hear about it afterwards, but your average "sports entertainment" fan might not ever see the fight.

[Guest Brian]

That's not the point though. They're trying to create a mainstream buzz while giving both guys a great deal of credibility and build towards their WrestleMania match. The first two will lend to the third, while they build for their Mania match with WWE fans on TV.

[Guest kindredone]

Is it worth the risk though? What happens if Angle or Lesnar lose? Then you have someone who's heat will go way down and all your planning for a Wrestlemania ME will go down the drain. This will get mainstream press too. Do you want to run the risk of Brock on Sportscenter getting knocked out in 15 seconds?

 

That being said I think the rules favor the wrestler, but I just don't know if the potential payoff outweighs the potential risk.

True,its quite a risk!

I dont think it will be a shoot of any kind..worked shoot at best.

 

[Guest NoCalMike]

ANother problem I think is that, since this will be in front of a wrestling crowd(I think) then what if both fights last less than a minute or two....the crowd will hate it. I mean say Lewis goes for a punch, and Brock sidesteps it, takes him down, and makes him submit in 30 seconds?? Do you really think Sports Entertainment geeks will be happy with that??

[Guest DragonflyKid]

If Lesnar and Angle do win it'll potentially damage boxings credibility which is already at a lowpoint. Boxing's PPV buyrates will probably suffer and boxing fans might become pro wrestling fans as long as they are treated to athletic-oriented prowres and not necrophilliac-oriented SE. Mainstream sport's fan acceptance = increased buy rates.

 

Not only does the 4 potential fighters have alot to lose but prowres and boxing themselves have alot to lose. I think there would be too much riding on this for both professions for it to ever take place.

 

Prowres can get some positive mainstream press out of a victory, a loss would be more damaging concerning their fans because mainstream-wise they get no respect anyways. If the boxers lose boxing will lose alot of mainstream cred, not only will they be involved in a profession where outcomes are scripted but if their top guy is proved an inferior fighter to a "fake-fighter" they will be further hurt and lose cred.

 

A worked shoot would be awful and no one would give a shit. The Ali/Inoki match was a worked shoot because Ali was scared to have a real shoot and that match ended up sucking and proving nothing. Worked shoot = worthlessness and suck.

[Guest saturnmark4life]

Shoots should be avoided bottom line i think. As has been said, the risk is too great, the casual fanbase (which now they need more than ever) won't like it and how much does Lewis want for doing this?

[Guest DragonflyKid]

Lewis wants alot, much more than one can be justified in spending for the risk and potential gain of the deal. Tyson got 3 million if I remeber correctly. Lewis wants alot more than that and Lewis was never the draw Tyson was.

 

Most new contracts in the WWE are $75.000 downsides a year, I think that's what Rey Misterio is making.

 

Paying some outsider like Lewis millions for a one-shot would upset alot of people if it happens.

[Guest Human Fly]

If the WWE is so hellbent on putting out a shoot fight then they should use someone who could really gain from being in a match like this, but if they lost it wouldn't do serious damage to the company. Plus, they could still get their mainstream publicity that they fantasize about.

 

Some guys that I think could fit that bill would be William Regal (always talking about how tough he is), Rico (former cop, legit black belt), Bubba Dudley (big guy, they could put him in there and see what he could do. Albert could be used here, and Big Show too, but I don't think they would want to risk it with him), Mark Henry (insanely strong if he got ahold of someone serious damage could be done).

[Guest DragonflyKid]

The mid-card guys wouldn't draw, noone would care.

[Guest Human Fly]

If Lennox Lewis was in one of the fights it would draw.

[Guest AfricanAmerican]

The mid-card guys wouldn't draw, noone would care.

these fights would probably last all of two minutes each... meaning the ppv will be full of Big Show, HHH, Kane, and Albert (if his Velocity push continues)

[Guest Brian]

The thing is, Lesnar is strong and quick plus he can outwrestle Lewis, stretch him out, or sink in a choke. Even if Lewis can get training he's still at a distinct disadvantage if Lesnar scores a takedown. I think Lewis can learn how to defense it, at least from the front, but Lesnar can probably move on the mat and if he gets versed a little in submission he'll be able to pull something out.

[Guest DragonflyKid]

AfricanAmerican Posted on Oct 28 2002, 01:01 PM

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QUOTE (RollingChop @ Oct 28 2002, 03:56 PM)

The mid-card guys wouldn't draw, noone would care.

 

these fights would probably last all of two minutes each... meaning the ppv will be full of Big Show, HHH, Kane, and Albert (if his Velocity push continues)  

 

The fight itself wouldn't draw, spending millions on a single match with little to gain can't be justified.

 

 

Didn't Big Show say he wanted to give boxing a try a year or two back?

 

Big Show vs. Lennox Lewis?