Angle agrees to shoot fight

[Guest DragonflyKid]

With the necro talk turning to HIV talk somewhere maybe they can have Tommy Morrison vs. HHH boxing match.

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

I dont know why Lewis would even consider this. He could be humiliated or injured or both. It's not like he needs the money.

[Guest Brian]

Bryan Alvarez's take:

 

Brock vs. Lennox Lewis?

 

Last week, UK’s Daily Star reported that Brock Lesnar would be facing Lennox Lewis in a shoot fight on February 23rd at the No Way Out PPV in Montreal. According to the story, Lewis was being offered five million pounds, or around $7.5 million US.

 

Although the Star is a tabloid newspaper, similar to the National Enquirer here in the US, the fact is that this story is not completely made up. In fact, there have been meetings between WWE and Lewis’ people in the past several weeks. Does that mean the fight will actually take place? Probably not.

 

We got a lot of reaction to this story last week. A surprising number of people figured that McMahon would be insane to let something like this happen, because Lewis would obliterate Lesnar in seconds. These people likely don’t watch a lot of UFC or PRIDE. The reason why this would not happen is also the reason the fight likely will never happen.

 

Brock Lesnar is not going to go in there and do a boxing match with Lennox Lewis. McMahon would truly be insane to let something like that happen. On the other hand, Lewis is not going to go in there and do a wrestling match with Lesnar, because he would be massacred literally within seconds. Obviously, both sides would have to agree to rules, and since neither side is about to agree to rules that favor their opponent, the chances of actually putting this together are very slim.

 

The reality of mixed fighting, in this case boxing vs. wrestling, is that the man who can fight with rules closest to those used in his own sport is likely to win. If Lesnar met Lewis in a dark alley, chances are very strong that Lesnar would kill him. Lewis’ only chance would be a knockout punch delivered in the first, oh, one second or so. If he didn’t land that punch, Lesnar would have him on the ground and it would be all over.

 

There are some precedents set if you look back at the history of wrestling. Someday Frank A. Gotch will tell the story of the time he fought a boxer under boxing rules with disastrous results. Probably the most famous boxer vs. wrestler match of the modern era was World Heavyweight Champion Muhammed Ali vs. New Japan’s Antonio Inoki on June 25th, 1976 in Tokyo. Both sides agreed to do a worked fight. The idea was that Ali would just pummel him and Inoki would blade. After awhile, Ali would ask that the fight mercifully be stopped, at which point Inoki, the dastardly Japanese (they were still really dastardly back then I guess) would give him an enzuigiri to the back of the head and pin him. As it turned out, Ali decided at the last minute that he didn’t like this idea so much, and when they couldn’t come to terms on a new finish, they just sent them to the ring to go at it. Both guys were scared to death of each other, and Inoki ended up lying on his back doing the infamous MMA crab and kicking at Inoki’s legs for fifteen hideously boring rounds. As bad as it was (and it was AWFUL), it became legendary in Japan.

 

In Japan, pro-wrestlers cross over into MMA and vice versa with some regularity. History has shown that literally anything can happen in a real fight. In an example which parallels this story, on December 31st, 2001, New Japan put Yuji Nagata, one of their top wrestlers who was scheduled to get an IWGP Title shot (New Japan’s equivalent to the WWE Title) a couple of days later, in the ring with Mirko Crocop, a K-1 kickboxer who had beaten several pro-wrestlers in mixed matches in the past. The feeling was that Nagata, a tremendous amateur wrestler in his youth, would be able to take Crocop, a kickboxer, down to the mat and give him a sound beating. Unfortunately, the plan backfired when Crocop, just 21 seconds in, landed one killer kick and knocked Nagata into next week. Unfortunately for Nagata, his reputation took a serious beating as well, and to this day fans still don’t accept him quite like they did before. However, as noted earlier, anything can happen. On that same show, Tadao Yasuda, a horrible New Japan pro-wrestler and even more horrible fighter, beat the enormous and scary Jerome LeBanner of K-1, because Yasuda did manage to take him down and once on the mat, LeBanner had no clue.

 

And, of course, WWF promoted Brawl For All several years back, a shoot tournament that was designed to get Steve Williams, a legitimate tough guy, over as a superstar and future challenger to Steve Austin. The fights were basically boxing matches where every landed punch was worth one point and every takedown was worth five. Williams never survived the tournament, getting knocked out by Bart Gunn. The winner ended up being Gunn (now Mike Barton in All Japan) (and you’ll soon learn why), who wasn’t that great a boxer, but was just good enough to beat everyone else. WWF was snowed into thinking he was a hell of a lot better than he was. They scheduled a boxing match at WrestleMania XV between Gunn and gimmick boxer Butterbean. Most inside the WWF believed Gunn would destroy him and become a superstar. Most in boxing knew otherwise. Sure enough, Butterbean knocked him out in 40 seconds. That was Gunn’s last day in the World Wrestling Federation.

 

McMahon in the past few years has thought he’s hit a few home runs. Usually, they turn out to be singles, and often, he just strikes out completely. But I truly believe that if this match can be put together, he could conceivably hit the home run to end all home runs. As noted above, there is a chance Brock could lose, which would be an XFL-level disaster. But while anything can happen in a real fight, unless Lewis’ camp bans takedowns (which they won’t, otherwise there is no fight), his chances of winning are very strong. Steve Austin became Steve Austin by associating with Mike Tyson. If Austin had actually fought Mike Tyson and beaten him, I can’t even imagine what kind of superstar he might have become. If the two sides can come to terms, Brock has a chance here to become bigger than Austin ever was.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

The thing is, Lesnar is strong and quick plus he can outwrestle Lewis, stretch him out, or sink in a choke. Even if Lewis can get training he's still at a distinct disadvantage if Lesnar scores a takedown. I think Lewis can learn how to defense it, at least from the front, but Lesnar can probably move on the mat and if he gets versed a little in submission he'll be able to pull something out.

Don't forget the psychological aspect of it - no matter how many tapes Lewis sees, no matter how many people prepare him, Lewis will most likely still not expect a supposed fake wrestler the size of Brock to move as quickly and sharply as he can. In this case Brock's size could act as camouflage. I've never even heard of Moorer, so I doubt an Olympic gold medallist will sweat him much.

[Guest TheArchiteck]

Well this is a win/lose situation for both sports.

If the wrestlers win, it means good mainstream attention, but it'll hurt boxing's credibility. If boxers win, it'll hurt wrestling's credibility.

[Guest notJames]

If the wrestlers win, it means good mainstream attention, but it'll hurt boxing's credibility. If boxers win, it'll hurt wrestling's credibility.

I don't think I need to explain the joke.

 

[Guest razazteca]

this Special Attraction needs somebody like Don King to promote the hell out of it......then the fight would end up like Great White Hype movie with Samuel Jackson, Damian Wayans, Jeff Goldblum.

 

Neither "sport" has any credibility at this point.

[Guest SP-1]

You know, Big Show is big and slow, but he's strong too. Seriously. Boxing Great as an opponent or not, I feel sorry for anybody that gets a taste of a Show punch that isn't pulled. I might pay to see the possibility of that happening.

 

-SP

[Guest The Hamburglar]

You know, Big Show is big and slow, but he's strong too. Seriously. Boxing Great as an opponent or not, I feel sorry for anybody that gets a taste of a Show punch that isn't pulled. I might pay to see the possibility of that happening.

 

-SP

According to Angle, Big Show is the only guy he can't properly ground in a legit wrestling match, he's a bit too big for all the takedowns to work. I recall hearing a similar story about Andre the Giant when he was told to shoot on some Japanese shoot-style wrestler. The Japanese guy couldn't take Andre down so he just started kicking him in the legs. Anyone care to verify or expound upon this story?

[Guest RickyChosyu]

The "grapplers always win" idea is a myth. If Brock and Angle can't hold their own on their feet, they won't have a chance. One combination later and the all their "grappling" ability doesn't mean shit.

 

For the love of God, stay away from Shammy and get Frye so these two can at least have some semblance of what punching is.

 

Just ask Yuji Nagata, a pro wrestler with an amature background who was asked to fight a kick boxer. He lost the fight before it began, and his drawing power as a wrestler hasn't recovered since. Vince is making the same mistake.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

To add on to this, Lewis's manager is denying that he'll do the fight (and that means no Angle/Moorer, either):

 

From BoxingInsider.com:

 

There was a story in the Sun newspaper in England yesterday in which Adrian Ogun (Lewis's business manager) shot down the idea of Lewis getting into the ring to fight but said Lewis would be involved in the future in a referee's capacity. Ogun was quoted saying:

 

"The rumors that Lennox is going to wrestle are completely untrue. He is going to appear as a referee or a special enforcer, as Mike Tyson did a few years ago, but he will not be wrestling."

 

The story being reported in the wrestling media is that while Lewis would be brought in for a referee role, it would lead to an actual match. Tyson got paid $3.5 million for his WWE Stint, while Lewis is asking for $8.5 Million."

[Guest ShooterJay]

In terms of punching power, Angle should have no problem. If you read his book, he comes from a family of Regal-like tough guy street fighters. A match against a washed-up boxer like Moorer would be an easy win.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

First off, "growing up with a tough familly" and being able to KO a boxer are two different things. On top of the fact that Angle would most likely not be allowed to punch, even if he did, Moorer (being a boxer) can take anything Angle can dish out and counter attack with ease. However, since Moorer is washed up himself, Angle could probably avoid a KO and destroy Moorer on the ground (though the rules stating a time limit for staying on the ground could put this in doubt, too).

 

btw, I withdraw my comment about Frye teaching Angle/Lesnar how to strike, since the rules would probably prevent them from doing so. They should still have Frye train them, but not for that purpose. He needs to show them how to avoid a quick KO (which Lewis could easilly accomplish) and Lesnar, in particular, needs to learn some submisions and learn them fast, as that's the only way he can expect to beat Lewis. Unless Lesnar learns how to make Lewis submit quickly, he won't be able to do much on the ground (due to the time limit) and even if he managed to avoid being KOed, the fight would be decided by boxing judges who would favor Lewis.

 

Unfortunately, I doubt the WWE will give Lesnar enough time off to learn the submisions he needs to win the fight, which spells bad news for them.

[Guest Brian]

That's basically what needs to happen is Lesnar needs to be trained to avoid the KO and lock in a submission. The one thing that Shamrock can help him with is getting a good leg lock.

[Guest creativename]

In terms of punching power, Angle should have no problem. If you read his book, he comes from a family of Regal-like tough guy street fighters. A match against a washed-up boxer like Moorer would be an easy win.

There is no way in hell that Angle would stand a chance in a boxing match with a former heavyweight champion, no matter how washed up he is. The man was a professional boxer; "tough guy" means nothing compared to that.

 

It's like everyone's already said; the pro wrestler/boxer will win, and win easily, if playing by his own rules. Otherwise, he'll get embarassed. Just repeating everyone again, but if Angle and Lesnar can avoid the quick KO and get it on the ground, the match will be over real fast.

 

In any event--unless they put in some really funky rules--neither match should last more than a couple minutes, max, no matter who wins.

[Guest humongous2002]

McMahon is so desperate that he wants to get publicity at any cost,he could save himself a lot of money if all he did was fired Gerwitz, demote Stephanie and stop all the backstage politics, but I guess he likes to do things the hardway not the ....ahem...smark way.

[Guest El Satanico]

This will end badly IF it happens.

 

This event will never happen. Lennox Lewis would gain NOTHING from doing this. He isn't going to risk a bad bump ending his career for one paycheck.

 

This may happen with boxers who need the money. It will shock the hell out of me if one of the top boxers agree to do it.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Moorer is desperate for cash, but he's only going to fight Angle if Lewis fights Lesnar, which isn't likely.

 

If it does, expect a train wreck.

[Chunk 0]

This will end badly IF it happens.

 

This event will never happen. Lennox Lewis would gain NOTHING from doing this. He isn't going to risk a bad bump ending his career for one paycheck.

 

This may happen with boxers who need the money. It will shock the hell out of me if one of the top boxers agree to do it.

Lewis is (or at least was) considering retirement anyway. So its not as though his career is on the line or anything.

[Guest humongous2002]

Lewis is a world champion if he looses to Lesnar that will make him look like the biggest punk in the world and if he beats the Vanilla Gorilla he won't gain any notoriety, instead if Vince really wants to do this he should get Tyson to fight Lesnar now I would pay to see that.

[Guest Choken One]

Tyson has lost any credibility as a "Boxer" and is a total Circus freakshow...which makes him perfect for this...but no one will buy the "real" aspect.

[Chunk 0]

Lewis is a world champion if he looses to Lesnar that will make him look like the biggest punk in the world and if he beats the Vanilla Gorilla he won't gain any notoriety, instead if Vince really wants to do this he should get Tyson to fight Lesnar now I would pay to see that.

How can you view Tyson above Lewis as a boxer? When they went head to head there was only one winner - Lewis! And it was a clean KO!

 

Sure Tyson would draw more in the US, but as Choken one says, i dont think anyone will buy it for real if Tyson is involved. He's been involved with the WWE before, and now has little creditbility in the boxing world. To your casual fan, it might look as though Tyson had said enough is enough with boxing and had decided to try his hand at something new.

[Guest Choken One]

Which is what Rodman said before quickly retreating to obsecurity.