Who's side do you take

[Guest cynicalprofit]

We all know what happened and what was suppose to happen during SS, but who's side do you take and why?

[Guest Ravenbomb]

I take my side.

[Guest T®ITEC]

I will side with Strong Mad, as he is superior to both Bret Hart And Vince McMahon.

 

Nah... I choose Bret, just because I don't think it was very cool to screw over the guy like that. Vince, however, was thinking business... Meh.

 

EDIT: Why do I even try fixing the errors in my posts?

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Vince...had Bret left the company an unbeaten champ to work for WCW it makes the title look like shit.

 

I say it's a work though, just to let Bret leave a babyface and make Vince a heel.

[Guest eiker_ir]

Bret, just because he was loyal and all that and Vince shouldn't have done that...

[Guest bob_barron]

Vince- Bret should've done the job

[Guest job squad]

i go with bret vince has a history of lyeing thru his teeth from the "andre hasent been beeten in 10 years" dispite the fact he had been beten several times in mexico and japan

[Guest Dr. Wrestlingphysics]

Vince - Bret should have done his job, and done the job.

[Guest papacita]

Vince, mainly because Bischoff started dropping Bret's name the very next night on Nitro. It would've been too risky to let Bret leave with the belt.

[Guest bob_barron]

i go with bret vince has a history of lyeing thru his teeth from the "andre hasent been beeten in 10 years" dispite the fact he had been beten several times in mexico and japan

it's called spell check.

 

and OH MY GOD!!! Vince told a lie about Andre the Giant to sell tickets.

 

Seriously- the guy was never beaten in the WWF until then and since back then the internet didn't exist who cares if he stretches the truth?

[Guest Incandenza]

Vince. Yeah, he's a prick, but business is business.

[Guest MaxPower27]

Vince.

 

I understand Bret's thinking and rationale, but Bret doesn't realize how much Vince actually trusted him. Vince released Bret while Bret was the WWF Champion. I don't think Bret ever thought about it that way. That showed Vince's trust to Bret.

[Guest BAR]

Bret, because he's one of my all time favourites. I despise Vince. I have no real explanation for it.

[Guest godthedog]

I understand Bret's thinking and rationale, but Bret doesn't realize how much Vince actually trusted him. Vince released Bret while Bret was the WWF Champion. I don't think Bret ever thought about it that way. That showed Vince's trust to Bret.

no, survivor series is a perfect example of the fact that vince did NOT trust bret.

[Guest Loss4Words]

I agree that Bret should have jobbed on the way out, but I also think Vince should have laid down the law and said "You're jobbing and that's that. Period."

 

The fact that Vince was afraid to tell him the truth upfront and led him to believe there would be another finish is where I have a problem.

 

I guarantee you Bret would not have walked out or held up the show. The whole point was that he wanted to leave with his head high.

[Guest HartFan86]

Bret, because he had the creative control. Vince didn't have to put it in there when he gave Bret that contract. And Bret had told Vince he'd never go on WCW TV with the WWF Belt because he's been working for his company for 10 + years and was very loyal. Vince just got too paranoid. And it's not like Bret would never give up the title.

[Guest bob_barron]

Didn't Bret threaten to jump to WCW with the I-C belt in 1992?

[Guest MaxPower27]

I understand Bret's thinking and rationale, but Bret doesn't realize how much Vince actually trusted him. Vince released Bret while Bret was the WWF Champion. I don't think Bret ever thought about it that way. That showed Vince's trust to Bret.

no, survivor series is a perfect example of the fact that vince did NOT trust bret.

No, it's proof that Vince didn't trust Bischoff. Vince released Bret Hart while Bret was the World Champion. If that's not trust, I don't know what is.

 

Bret should have just jobbed. Bret's one of my favorite workers of all time, but I can't see his logic. When you leave a promotion, you lose the belt. Period. No arguments.

 

What Vince did was wrong, but he was protecting his best interest (The WWF). I think that Vince did trust Bret, but who's to stop Bischoff from getting his grubby hands on the WWF Title and trashing it on Nitro? That was Vince's biggest fear, and it boiled down to two options:

 

-Trust Bret and possibly lose your world title, putting a large hole in your promotion

 

OR

 

-Betray the guy that has been there for you for x amount of years.

 

I'm not saying what Vince did was right, but it was in the best interest for the WWF, which comes before Bret. If Bret doesn't want to play ball, you get the belt off of him anyway you can.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Obviously, Vince didn't want Bret going in on a strong note.

 

They should have just met somewhere down the middle.

 

They do the run-in that they planned earlier, but rather than Bret keeping the belt and dropping it in a promo the next night, the run-in occurs when Shawn had Bret pinned (but no count because the ref was bumped), the ref wakes up but is boweled over by the massive run-in and both Shawn and Bret are trampled and "injured", and the belt is considered vacant since nobody would have known if Bret kicked out or not in the clusterfuck.

[Guest dreamer420]

Bret and hears why:

 

Vince promised Bret that he wasn't going to lose the match and he sent Michaels out there to screw him. Bret agreed to drop the title the next night on Raw but somehow no one ever remembers that. WTF?

[Your Paragon of Virtue]

Who the hell said that Bret tried to jump with the IC back in 1992? I never heard that one...

 

Bret had creative control, and could do what he wanted. Vince gave him the contract, and took it away when he felt like it. He should have used some foresight if he was going to get rid of his most loyal employee, and not put the title on him. Bret was willing to job to anyone but Michaels, whom had refused to job to him on countless occasions.

 

In other words, Vince put himself in that situation, but didn't have the balls to back out. So he went the coward's way out and screwed him mid-match. I don't see any way to justify it.

 

I don't like the Undertaker, but it seemed kind of admirable for him to tell Vince to go and apologize before he kicked his ass....

[Guest bob_barron]

Here we go-

 

As far as all of Bret's talk about loyalty to the WWF, recall he "conspired" to leave the WWF for WCW as IC Champ without giving notice early in 1992, but was stopped because he misinterpreted his contract. Therefore, he was forced to stay (and obviously made the best of it). All of his talk about being a Canadian hero, frankly, is a bit nauseating. But Bret is Bret. He is criticized on air for being a "mark for himself" for a reason. His house is a virtual shrine of memorabilia featuring his face.

 

(That's from a torch newsletter from 1997)

[Guest jimmy no nose]

I'd side with Vince, he did what he had to do.

[Your Paragon of Virtue]

Well Bret was pretty popular in Canada, at least until he stopped wrestling. Also, not that I disbelieve you, I just find it a little odd that I have never heard of this information about Bret trying to bolt before this. Especially since no one would have wanted in WCW in the early 90s, unless Vince outright didn't want you, or if you were loyal to their company.

 

That being said, it still doesn't change the fact that I still believe that Vince was in the wrong on this matter. I even normally side with him regarding most other stuff, as a businessman, you could say he did what he had to do, but he went about the wrong way of doing it, negating all good intentions he may have had.

 

Unlike most others, I actually like him somewhat, as he has contributed alot, even if his head was up his ass on a few occasions, like this one...

[Guest Ram]

I think Vince did the right thing - business wise and friend wise.

 

Instead of forcing Bret to cleanly lose, Vince went out there and rang the bell making him lose. Bret never *lost* to Shawn, and would have what he wanted by not *losing* to him in Canada. Vince got what he wanted, Bret not walking away champion of the PPV, and perhaps even the attention he wanted.

[Guest Loss4Words]

The Torch is full of Clique marks who hate Bret Hart. You have to take anything Wade Keller reports with a grain of salt.

[Guest treble charged]

The whole 'Bret refusing to lose in his home country' kind of pisses me off, since Americans lose in the US all the time, and it's no big deal. Montreal is nowhere near Calgary, anyway, so it's not like it was his 'hometown', either.

 

Also, this whole 'Canadian hero' thing is blown out of proportion, too. Sure, he's probably the most famous wrestler in Canada, but its not exactly like he's idolized by every single person in the country.

[Guest dreamer420]

The whole 'Bret refusing to lose in his home country' kind of pisses me off, since Americans lose in the US all the time, and it's no big deal. Montreal is nowhere near Calgary, anyway, so it's not like it was his 'hometown', either.

 

Also, this whole 'Canadian hero' thing is blown out of proportion, too. Sure, he's probably the most famous wrestler in Canada, but its not exactly like he's idolized by every single person in the country.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. With the Canada vs. USA angle that was taking place at the time Bret was a hometown hero for the PPV.

 

All I can say is try to look at it from Bret's POV and the alternative options he gave to Vince.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Vince was the one to back out of his contract therefore it is HIS responsibility, as an employer and person in general to smooth things out.

 

Vince had MONTHS to think of a way to get the title off Bret, but he decided to screw him. It was pre-meditated, planned, conspired, thought up -whatever term you want to use. Vince WANTED to screw Bret - otherwise he wouldn't have. Why? Controversy. And it worked.

 

I side with Bret.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

With the Canada vs. USA angle that was taking place at the time Bret was a hometown hero for the PPV.

Except that angle was just an angle (and IMO, pretty stupid.) Angles end and change when outbooked by other angles.

 

Bret said his career was "sabotaged" becuase the American people wouldn't accept him as a face again. Bah! All they have to do is have him make the save and beat up a heel the audience hates even more. That's how Kurt Angle could go from making fun of every town nationwide to getting a face push with proper heat.