the official "bitch about survivor series" thread

[Guest godthedog]

so we got shawn michaels as the raw champion and the guy on the show to EVER decisively beat triple h, we got fucking BIG SHOW as the smackdown champion who finally pinned brock (who cleanly beat rob van dam, eddie guerrero and the rock)...and that's just the beginning.

 

so vent here.

[Guest Kingpk]

WWE: Where you can injure the rising star at a house show and then beat him for a championship on a major PPV.

 

WWE: Crippled? Can't wrestle a full year without needing enough painkillers to stun a blue whale? No problem! We got a title for you!

[Guest MrRant]

Looks like everyone liked the show.

[Guest The Man in Blak]

Or everybody's just stunned that the WWE actually did this crap.

[Guest SP-1]

<---- LOVED the show.

[Guest Paranoid]

I hate Brock, so him getting beat was cool until I realized it was to The Big Slow.

 

I like Victoria, so all is well there.

 

I like Eddie and Chavo, so once again no complaints.

 

D'von and Buh Buh together again. KICK ASS!

 

HBK>HHH. SWEET!

 

I only read about it, but I am still kicking myself in the ass for missing it!

[Guest the pinjockey]

It is more fun to make fun of HHH in the HHH is injured thread than it is to bitch about this asinine booking.

[Guest bravesfan]

Pros:

--The REAL Dudleys are back, and might actually salvage a feud with 3-Minute Warning.

--The fact that cruiserweight wrestling is not dormant, by any means.

--An actually interesting feud between Trish and Victoria is brewing.

--The Smackdown 6.

--Chavo Guerrero gets a WWE title... all is well with the world.

--MATTITUDE~! NOWINSKI~!

--Scott Steiner's return wasn't screwed up.

--HBK's title reign, although NOT a breath of fresh air, creates some interest in the Raw product.

 

Cons:

--Big Show: WWE Champion by default. Uggh.

 

Verdict:The cons win out.

[Guest goodhelmet]

i did this in the summer and i'll do it again.... boycott until the next ppv of all wwe programming!!!

 

vince sucks, his product sucks, and his champions suck.

[The Dames 0]

I sure as hell didn't love the show. I think the Big Show's win was done well, although it was a poor decision. Any other way and Brock would have looked a lot worse.

 

The Elimination Chamber match was quite disappointing as well.

 

Dames

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

"HBK's title reign, although NOT a breath of fresh air, creates some interest in the Raw product."

 

Based on what?

 

HBK's failure to draw when he was an active wrestler? Or the dropping ratings the weeks he's been back on RAW this time?

 

HBK 2002 = Hogan 2002

[Guest SP-1]

Now you're going to blame the ratings decrease on HBK? I guess when he retires, the full blame will return to Triple H and Necrophilia. I see how it works now, anytime something happens that the general fanbase enjoys, but you specifically hate, it's the reason for the majority of the company's woes.

 

Hate to break it to you, but from the looks of it, the MSG crowd, and pretty much the entire bar I was in were totally into HBK's winning last night. A single person being, "elevated" is not going to save the WWE, and it isn't going to institute an instant turnaround. Entertaining people over an extended period of time will turn things around, and putting the title on someone that many, many fans love and respect is entertaining those fans. When it's Shawn's time to step aside, if VINCE MCMAHON decides to put the strap on RVD, Booker, or Jericho, then HBK will do his J-O-B. But until then, people cheer when HBK gets the pin, people cheer when HBK's music hits for his entrance, and people are happy to see him return and defeat the friend who betrayed him.

 

People cheer when Brock Lesnar, with cracked ribs, hauled Big Show up for the F-5. People booed when Heyman betrayed Brock. People booed for the HEEL winning, but cheered when Brock went after Heyman. And people will cheer when Brock gets that title back, or at least retribution of some sort. And people cheering, and being happy with the product, regardless of rumors or backstage speculation, is what will save the WWE.

 

There. That's my bitch about Survivor Series. People aren't willing to let go long enough to figure out that everybody out there last night busted ass to entertain. People were injured, but continued, (Brock, HHH off the top of my head), and people cheered. But everybody on the internet is so wrapped up in their "insider knowledge" that they forget what gets put on the line in that ring, and instead of appreciating that alot of people were happy last night and that sacrifices were made and the mass was entertained, we all come together to berate and bitch about people who tried their best to do good by us last night.

 

Jericho, RVD, Booker, Kane, you guys did great. You went out, you hit your spots, you got asses out of seats for people to stand and cheer. You built up the tension for the big finish, and I loved it. You did good by me. HBK, thanks for giving me one really reat markout, thanks for giving me a role model in so many ways. Triple H, thanks for continuing despite being hurt, for being a part of the big finish. Brock, thanks for lugging Show up and igniting at least a bar full of happy people into cheering. You did good by me.

 

SpiderPoet, who is happy.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I'm not blaming it on HBK...I'm just stating the fact that he has done zip to boost ratings at any point in his career.

 

So I fail to see how it's going to gain any interest this time.

 

And while elavating one person may not be the answer, elavating no one is even worse.

[Guest buffybeast]

Elevating one person will not help ratings just as putting the belt on an old has been will not help boost ratings (this is my opinion, of course).

[Guest SP-1]

hey jerky boy, my name is Jason (not the Spider Poet). Who in the bloody hell are you to say that HBK hasn't boosted ratings or been vital? When was the last time you watched HBK and Bret Hart or "Badd Blood"? Do you have a memory that extends past the brand split? The problem with all you marks is that you are jealous of the fact that for one night, something occured on WWE programming that was a lil deeper than just having a match, it was soemthign very abstract that happened last night and you can't stand it. I am a professional wrestler so maybe I look at it a lil differently than you do, but I guarantee that whether ratings or buy rates or ticket sales go up, the entertainment value will. Isn't that ultimately the thing guys? Isn't

entertainment supposed to be worthwhile to watch? When does the buy rate signify a good show, last time I checked "the play's the thing" not how many come, but how many people leave happy. And I assure you that not many people were dissappointed by last night's effort, from Shawn and the rest.

 

"...they didn't pay to see you, they paid to see me..."-Matthew Blaze

[Guest treble charged]

I don't know if you can consider HBK 'old'. A 'has been' maybe, but technically, the guy really isn't old at all.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

"Who in the bloody hell are you to say that HBK hasn't boosted ratings or been vital"

 

 

I'm someone who looked back at ratings and buyrates during the HBK title reigns.

 

The rest of your statement can't be responded too without talking down to you so I won't bother attemting it here.

[Guest SP-1]

Jason here again bub....well, "talk down to me", please. I expected a lil more than that from someone who pretends to be verbose. My question to you, why do buy rates matter? (Unless of course you're a WWE stock holder )

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

They matter because that is how the company makes money.

 

I think you'd be better suited going to some AOL WWE chat rooms and discussing these concepts you have about how what's good for the one renders what's good for the many to be worthless.

 

Or just continue to discuss them during recess.

[Guest SP-1]

Jason here one last time bub....okay, my point is that you guys prattle on about it like it matters to you, that's it. Your moronic comebacks to me were staggering (sniff) but I must leave now. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy the show, but oh well. And by the way, you guys don't even know what "smart" means...lol.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Well you got me there.

 

I have no defense for such wit.

[Guest treble charged]

I've gotta ask, bps. Did you not see/hear the reaction that HBK got after he won the belt? Now, those people paid money for those seats, money that will go to Vince's pockets, and those people seemed quite happy with the ending to the Elimination Chamber. The people who were in the theatre, watching the show with me also paid money to be there, and some of that will go to Vince, as well, were happy as well.

 

What's to say that, you know, other people aren't going to be, 'Hey, HBK is champ, lets watch Raw again'? Sure, in the long term, Michaels as champ makes little to no sense, but WWE is rather desperate right now, and since an Austin or a Rock aren't available right now, why not give it to someone who was a proven champ in the past?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

What has he proven as champ?

 

I still fail to understand how one of the two WORST DRAWING CHAMPIONS in the history of the company...a man who found a way to forfeit every title in the company is proven as anything.

Now add in that he can't work a full schedule and you've hit Russo style retarded.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Oh...I should add that none of that is even the worst part.

 

The company is SORELY in need of progressing forward past the HHH/Taker dominated landscape.

 

Instead they chose to go backwards again.

 

Plus...the fans seemed mighty happy when Hogan won the belt too this year.

 

Just before they all decided to turn the TV off.

[Guest SP-1]

SP, back in the saddle.

 

What my friend (who is a Pro), was trying to get across is that, from a point of view from inside the ropes, there was very little wrong last night. The ultimate goal is to send the masses home happy, regardless of how massive the mass is. The smark community berating everything is so frustrating in that respect. I look at things from three different points of view, so that's probably why my views are so massively contradicting to everyone else's. I'm a fan, I'm a "smark", and then I'm also the guy that travels with a wrestler, the guy that talks about it with him, the guy that goes and helps set up rings and take them down for shows. Three worlds that tend to collide, but the three filters I look at things through. And the general consensus I've reached is that we smarks tend to bitch so much that we lose sight of the fact that those guys are out there trying to entertain, and we're massively disrespecting them by tearing them down every chance we get. It's senseless, and I'm starting to understand why guys like Jericho have a lowered opinion of the "Smart" marks.

 

SP

[Guest bob_barron]

I was there so I liked it.

 

I was pulling for HHH though cause I dont like HBK.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

NO. stop right there.

 

Don't try to tell me about how these guys are trying to entertain and we should respect that, when the guys who go out and do it on a nightly basis just had Big Show and a man who has wrestled 2 matches in 4 years get the push.

[Guest bob_barron]

As much as the crowd went battyshit for HBK-

 

They were PISSED when RVD and Book got eliminated.

 

So I think them winning would've also gotten the mega bonkers pop.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Plus...

 

I have to hear this all the time. The "How do you know it won't work out, you're just mad because your guy lost" thing.

 

I heard it when the NWO came back and all the Hogan marks told me it would draw.

 

I heard it when Mania ended and everyone told me HHH was going to draw.

 

I heard it when Hogan got the title and everyone told me it would draw.

 

Guess what.

 

They didn't.

 

And this won't either.

[Guest SP-1]

Jericho and Booker are also in somewhat of a feud, and Jericho is a Tag Champion. Vince didn't have to do the Chamber, he didn't have to put those guys in the Main Event in the first place. But they were there, in a high profile match. As much as I love RVD, as much as I respect his technical ability and his ability to entertain, he lacks a solid character. Something that HBK, HHH, Jericho, Kane, and Booker all have. In terms of storytelling, that sort of rules RVD out. I wouldn't be very entertained by a Champion whose entire vocabulary on the stick so far has been, "Dude."

 

And yeah, the crowd did go nuts when Hogan won the belt. They were entertained that night, and the night after on RAW. And THAT is what's important in the end.