RVD VS HBK

[Guest I Fear Hogans Air Guitair]

How does Booker deserve it more?

 

For being less over and not having as good of matches for over the last year?

 

In that case I guess Test deserves it the most.

LOL good one Bps. But i think Mark Henry derserves the most.

[Guest ryankeast]

Of Corse RVD deserves it. He is more over than Booker.

Whether he is a better worker i'm not sure.

 

However Booker is the second most over on RAW.

 

That may change though if Steiner is to come to RAW.

[Guest RenegadeX28]

Well, I remember like maybe 5-6 months back in WWE magazine, they mentioned that this would be a dream match (HBK vs RVD), but it was a ladder match they wanted. I hope this match will be good.......

[Guest Choken One]

Obviously, A ladder match won't occur, at least not Next monday and nor does it need a ladder match.

 

A 15 minute straight high flying match with a hot crowd will do the job done. I am not expecting the ***** Match it could be if it was Shawn in 1996 and RVD today...but I eagarlly ancipate a *** match at the least. Does it really matter whom goes over? The focus will remain HBK-H3 either way, and likely Game will be back the week AFTER Next Monday...They won't establish a H3-HBK match for Armagedeggon but expect a possible 3 way or 4 way involving H3-HBK-RVD and either a Heel turned/Tweener Booker or Jericho.

 

It would be smart for WWE to allow its self to believe that the HBK-HHH fued doesn't need a title to revolve around since they are confidant that the fued itself will draw.

 

That should allow RVD to run with the title for at least 2 months before timely laying down for H3 at No Way Out. What to do if RVD takes the title? If they turn Booker T heel, then we got a match for Rumble...Or they can go with the safe route and have Total Heel Jericho involved...Likely The steiner angle will be concluded by then.

[Guest cabbageboy]

Believe me, Steiner is getting new guy pops from the crowd but his act is sorta one note and will wear thin after a couple of months.

 

In regards to Shawn/RVD, I think it is a hugely important match in determining where the company is going. If RVD goes over it is a sign that things could change and improve. If Shawn goes over it is really retarded, since he's on his last legs and shouldn't be beating ANYONE at this point. If it's a DQ, I'm not really sure either way.

 

Booker's main problem is that he's really not a terribly interesting guy to watch wrestle. He's got the mic skills (at times anyway), the gimmick move, but his matches are not all that good for the most part.

[Guest Choken One]

Exactly. Booker T is the wrestling equilvent of Steiner's Rants...one note and one dimensional. Rob Van Dam is cleary more over because he brings a aura of unpredictablity to the match, you never know if You're going to see a Innovative move created like Van Terminator or theMultitudes of variations of the moonsault. Booker is the same Monotone wrestler...Keeping the crowd silent until the Spinarooine.

 

Booker T would be a great heel since he can easily slam his challengers in great one liners, ALA 1998 rock.

[Guest ryankeast]

I don't think they will have HBK pin RVD that just would not make sense.

 

If they aren't gonna put the title on him then have it finish in a D/Q.

 

But heres hopeing that RVD gets the title and gets a decent couple of months reign.

[Guest Brian]

So is RVD. Most of the guys on the roster are. They wrestle a dumbed down style where that's the way to go.

[Guest Choken One]

RVD isn't a one note guy...esp Live. He always adds a little twist to a move in each match. A extra Flip in the Rolling Thunder or a Longer hang time on the 5*...but he keeps the crowd alive because he is seriously unpredictable.

[Guest Brian]

That's not true. Ever since RVD toned down he's been basically a WWE style wrestler with flashier moves. He's got that flash to his moves, but he's basically wrestling the same way as eevryone else (with few exceptions).

[Guest Choken One]

Yes, he wrestles the same but he adds as you said "Flash" and energy to the matches that others don't, along with the "Whatever" attitude and the neato outfits...It's the unconventionality that draws RVD to the masses and leads them to chant "R-V-D" every monday nite.

[Guest Brian]

But like I said, it's the same style with the basic rotation of move only his being more spot-oriented and his strikes being far less than adequate to carry the flow.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Why do people always talk as if how good the match is matter in the least?

 

Hogan put up DUDs all day long and drew, Austin put on good matches and drew.

 

RVD's more over than Booker, and therefore of more use.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Eh, I don't see why they just can't push both guys, but then, I'm not legally insane, either.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Way more over? No way. I won't argue that RVD may be as over as Booker, but not more over. The crowd wasn't very loud the whole night, but they got up for Booker during that interview, chanting his name and everything. RVD's reaction was fair, but def. not better then Booker's tonight. Etrance pops are one thing, crowd reaction during promos and matches are a better indicator (Kane gets a pop for his entrance but not for his ring work). Booker had RVD beat in both of those things tonight and often does.

 

As far as Booker being overrated, he has a good, defined moveset that he uses it perfectly and can work it into any match. That is a sign of a good worker. Not RVD who does a bunch of "cool-looking" stuff that is really contrived and doesn't often hit.

RVD is more over IN HIS SLEEP than Booker is. I was at the RAW house show. Booker got a decent pop, Kane got boos, RVD got a pop I thought was reserved for Austin.

 

 

You're wrong.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

That's not true. Ever since RVD toned down he's been basically a WWE style wrestler with flashier moves. He's got that flash to his moves, but he's basically wrestling the same way as eevryone else (with few exceptions).

Dude, could you *be* anymore wrong?

 

Rolling Thunder, Van Daminator, , Split-Legged Moonsault,Twosting Body Press, every kind of sweet kick imaginable

 

No one else in the WWE can do what Van Dam does. His style is different, and *that's* one of the reasons he is over at Austin (circa 97) levels. If you don't like spotfests, fine. But a *vast* majority of the WWE's audience LOVE RVD for his in-ring work alone. (He upstaged Eddy Guerrero in his first TV match)

 

 

Remember when everyone said that RVD couldn't work a ten-minute match?

 

 

I'm *still* laughing at that one.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

If you want a 30-Minute *experience, than RVD is a bad worker.

 

 

If you, like the WWE, want a 30-Minute match where the crowd is on their feet the entire match than there is *no one* on the roster who does that better than RVD.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

That's not true. Ever since RVD toned down he's been basically a WWE style wrestler with flashier moves. He's got that flash to his moves, but he's basically wrestling the same way as eevryone else (with few exceptions).

Dude, could you *be* anymore wrong?

 

Rolling Thunder, Van Daminator, , Split-Legged Moonsault,Twosting Body Press, every kind of sweet kick imaginable

 

No one else in the WWE can do what Van Dam does. His style is different, and *that's* one of the reasons he is over at Austin (circa 97) levels.

You misunderstood what he said. When he said that Van Dam works the same style, he meant the WWE style where they basically do 5 spots a match and nothing but punch/kick for transitions(or, in Rob's case, lame forearms).

[Guest Goodear]

I'm not sure about this 30 minute number Mr. Z is throwing out there. RVD seems to peak about the 15-20 minute mark since he usually tends to string his spots together pretty much bang-bang-bang. But I don't expect Big Show going 30 minutes either, so it wouldn't be an obsticle to his success anyway.

 

Basically, in my opinion there are three keys to success in WWE wrestling (success meaning you'll get a push based off those things, not that you will get a bunch of 5* classics) and RVD falls under one of them.

 

1) The person is over (see Rock or Steve Austin) - where a person could basically get the people chanting them by having a glass of water backstage. We aren't still hearing 'what' chants for no reason. RVD kinda-sorta fits this criteria since he gets impressive responses for his thumb point thing, but he's just not the pure Over-guy since he doesn't do a lot of interviews or backstage segments.

 

2) They're big - There's no doubting this one. From Andre to Bundy to Earthquake to Yokozuna to Mable to Show... WWE will push you if you are big. RVD isn't here obviously.

 

3) If the person's spots are over. Scotty II Hottie (for example) basically netted II Cool a tag title reign based on a little dance thing. Rikishi still remains over and in the midcard based on the stinkface. Rey gets pushed because he flies through the air all the time. RVD belongs in this grouping, because his moves (however much you want to say they're stupid) are over... Unfortunately, this is group that usually gets a short push to a secondary position on the card. We'll have to see if RVD can break that barrier.

[Guest cabbageboy]

Well here is the main difference: Booker gets the pop for his spinarooni, but there is nothing else he does in the ring that the crowd deems important. I doubt most even care if he wins or not, as long as he works in the spinarooni. He is veering dangerously close to the one note antics of Rikishi's stink face or Scotty's worm. In fact I dare say that Booker is worse than Rikishi in some ways.....at least Rikishi has a legit finisher (Yokozuna Banzai ass squash). Booker can't be a serious contender until he has a real finisher, and no the axe kick is hardly an established finisher.

 

With an RVD match you don't exactly know going in what you are about to see. Is he going to do a Van Daminator? Van Terminator? Variations on Rolling Thunder? Split legged moonsaults? About the only thing we know is he'll try for the 5 Star at some point....because it's his well established finisher.

[Guest Brian]

You misconstrued my point. It wasn't that RVD didn't have a flash, kool moveset, it was that he was basically working the same match with weaker strikes and flashier sig spots. He's has a formula like most others, which is why he got lambasted for not knowing when to make his comebacks in the Benoit match and Eddy got praised for those carry-jobs.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

That's not true. Ever since RVD toned down he's been basically a WWE style wrestler with flashier moves. He's got that flash to his moves, but he's basically wrestling the same way as eevryone else (with few exceptions).

Dude, could you *be* anymore wrong?

 

Rolling Thunder, Van Daminator, , Split-Legged Moonsault,Twosting Body Press, every kind of sweet kick imaginable

 

No one else in the WWE can do what Van Dam does. His style is different, and *that's* one of the reasons he is over at Austin (circa 97) levels.

You misunderstood what he said. When he said that Van Dam works the same style, he meant the WWE style where they basically do 5 spots a match and nothing but punch/kick for transitions(or, in Rob's case, lame forearms).

Whoops!

 

 

Sorry, man.

 

 

It's just, calling RVD an "ordinary" wrestler got me angry and I didn't read it in context.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

I'm not sure about this 30 minute number Mr. Z is throwing out there. RVD seems to peak about the 15-20 minute mark since he usually tends to string his spots together pretty much bang-bang-bang. But I don't expect Big Show going 30 minutes either, so it wouldn't be an obsticle to his success anyway.

 

Basically, in my opinion there are three keys to success in WWE wrestling (success meaning you'll get a push based off those things, not that you will get a bunch of 5* classics) and RVD falls under one of them.

 

1) The person is over (see Rock or Steve Austin) - where a person could basically get the people chanting them by having a glass of water backstage. We aren't still hearing 'what' chants for no reason. RVD kinda-sorta fits this criteria since he gets impressive responses for his thumb point thing, but he's just not the pure Over-guy since he doesn't do a lot of interviews or backstage segments.

 

2) They're big - There's no doubting this one. From Andre to Bundy to Earthquake to Yokozuna to Mable to Show... WWE will push you if you are big. RVD isn't here obviously.

 

3) If the person's spots are over. Scotty II Hottie (for example) basically netted II Cool a tag title reign based on a little dance thing. Rikishi still remains over and in the midcard based on the stinkface. Rey gets pushed because he flies through the air all the time. RVD belongs in this grouping, because his moves (however much you want to say they're stupid) are over... Unfortunately, this is group that usually gets a short push to a secondary position on the card. We'll have to see if RVD can break that barrier.

If seen ECW matches where he went 30+ minutes.

 

 

I said he COULD go 30, not that the WWE would let him.

[Guest Brian]

Alot of guys can go thirty doing what he did. Especially with some of the guys he had to work with to put on the decent matches.

[Guest notJames]

...(I've) seen ECW matches where he went 30+ minutes...

Not to be argumentative, but most of those ECW 30+ minute matches consisted of 15 minutes of posing, stalling, and playing to the crowd.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Blah blah blah blah blah.

 

Has anyone taken the time to point out that this is maybe the first RVD match EVER whre we actually know his motivation going in?

 

He asked for the title shot...so for the first time we know he actually WANTS the title...

 

and he respects his opponent but will obviously do whatever it takes to win the title.

 

 

That's more development than his character has gotten since the aborted Jericho program.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Blah blah blah blah blah.

 

Has anyone taken the time to point out that this is maybe the first RVD match EVER whre we actually know his motivation going in?

 

He asked for the title shot...so for the first time we know he actually WANTS the title...

 

and he respects his opponent but will obviously do whatever it takes to win the title.

 

 

That's more development than his character has gotten since the aborted Jericho program.

I pointed that out in my first post in this thread...

 

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Oh...well then...

 

I concede victory to APO on this day

[TheFranchise 0]

...(I've) seen ECW matches where he went 30+ minutes...

Not to be argumentative, but most of those ECW 30+ minute matches consisted of 15 minutes of posing, stalling, and playing to the crowd.

So a lot like his wwe matches then?

[Guest TheAnvil]

How does Booker deserve it more?

 

For being less over and not having as good of matches for over the last year?

 

In that case I guess Test deserves it the most.

Well...I guess if you were an RVD mark...that explains why you feel like that.

 

Let's do a little compare and contrast, shall we?

 

Booker T has believable offense. His punches/strikes don't look utterly pathetic like RVD's do. He has solid wrestling moves, and works matches well, and with a great pace. Sure, Booker T needs a better finish, but since he can't do the Bookend anymore, I guess the axe-kick will have to work. His matches are also different. Every match he works seems new and different. Sure, he has his spots, but he actually looks like he's wrestling a different opponent every time out.

 

Rob Van Dam on the other hand, has little-to-no offense. His strikes/punches are pathetic...almost Kane-like (actually...now that I think about it, Kane's punches/kicks are probably better). Most of his offense is him flipping/rolling/cartwheeling for no reason, then hitting a shitty punch/kick. Sure, his finish is spectacular...so he's got one move you want to see. RVD's matches are cookie cutter. They all involve RVD hitting all his spots, usually in the same order. If you've seen one (WWE) RVD match, you've pretty much seen them all. (I actually liked his ECW work.)

 

As for matches in the last year, look at who each of them has had programs with. RVD has worked with Guerrero, Benoit, and Jericho. Booker T has had to work with Big Show, and worked Tag Matches most of the time. How is he gonna showcase his talents wrestling The Big Slow? RVD should have had many...many better performances. He had all the best talent to work with.

 

Both men are over. To what extent, you can argue until your blue in the face. Every town they go to, it's gonna be different. So, which one is more deserving of a title shot? The man with the better in-ring work, if you ask me. Booker T is better in the ring. Booker T is better on the mic.

 

Now, just so you don't think I'm anti-RVD...I'm not. I'm pro-wrestling. Booker T is a better wrestler, even though RVD was in the MOTY in my opinion (Benoit/RVD SummerSlam).

 

 

As for the RVD/HBK match we're gonna get on Monday...there is a way they can screw this up. Have RVD control the match with offense. To be honest, neither of these guys is gonna bring the house down with their offense. If HBK was 10 years younger, maybe...but not anymore. Now, HBK has proven me wrong before...and I hope that he will. But, I think this is going to be 2 guys in there, selling sub-par offense from their opponent, and hitting a couple high-spots.

 

I'd like to see HHH interfere, actually. Say what you want about HHH, but he does one thing extremely well. He makes the belt seem like it means something. Remember when The 2 Man Powertrip had the belts?? They made it seem like the belts were everything to them, and it made the belts seem more valuable. At least HHH show that he HAS to have the belt...at all costs. It makes the belt seem more valuable.