So you think Shawn Michaels wasn't a draw?

[Guest CanadianChick]

For every example you give to prove your point, I can also give one to prove mine. Look at Brock/Rock. It only drew a 1.0.

I don't really see your point. Summerslam '96, which Shawn main evented, only drew a 0.58.

[Guest Paranoid]

And Backlash 2002 only drew a 0.80. I really don't want to start an argument with anyone. I just can't see how logically you can say that the total card doesn't effect the buyrate and that the main eventer does.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

The main eventers are the stars. People pay to see the stars. This isn't complicated, it's fundimental wrestling logic. Yes, a good card top to bottom will keep people entertained, but the main event is what people come to see. Most people don't look at a card, analize it from top to bottom, and then make their decision. They remember who's booked on top, and they decide based on that. Simple wrestling logic.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Slightly off subject:

 

What were the buyrates during the two times that Randy Savage was WWF Champion?

[Guest CanadianChick]

Slightly off subject:

 

What were the buyrates during the two times that Randy Savage was WWF Champion?

I'm not including the ppvs where he actually won the title, since he technically wasn't champion yet.

 

Summerslam '88-4.5

Survivor Series '88-2.8

Royal Rumble '89-1.5

Wrestlemania V- 5.9

Summerslam '92- 1.5

[Guest PhilWalsh]

I don't mean to change the subject, but what are buyrates?

[Guest CanadianChick]

I believe that the number is the percentage of people who buy the ppv that can have access to the pay-per-view. So a 1.8 buyrate means that 1.8% of people who have access the ppv actually got that particular ppv.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Buyrates are just indicators of how many people bought a particular PPV, plain and simple. I believe a 1.0 buyrate means that 400,000 people ordered the PPV.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

I'm not including the ppvs where he actually won the title, since he technically wasn't champion yet.

 

Summerslam '88-4.5

Survivor Series '88-2.8

Royal Rumble '89-1.5

Wrestlemania V- 5.9

Summerslam '92- 1.5

Hmm...and technically, he only defended the title in the last two of those PPVs...Summerslam and Survivor Series 88 he teamed with Hogan (the latter with others too), and in Rumble 89 he was in the Rumble match.

 

Not that great of a judge...*shrug*

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

For those interested in Savage, here are some ratings from the period. Keep in mind that these shows were less frequent in those days.

 

Saturday Nights Main Event, October 1988 (8.7)

SNME, November 1989 (9.4)

The Main Event, February 1989 (11.6)

SNME, March 1989 (10.0)

 

These are generally around the same for the entire Golden Age, and begin to drop during the Ultimate Warrior's WWF title run.

[Guest Brian]

1996:

 

Wrestlemania 1.20 $4,000,000

04/28/96 Good Friends, Better Enemies 0.65 $1,400,000

05/26/96 Beware of Dog 0.45 $561,000

06/23/96 King of the Ring 0.65 $1,680,000

07/21/96 International Incident 0.37 $1,060,000

08/18/96 SummerSlam 0.58 $1,740,000

09/22/96 Mind Games 0.48 $960,000

10/20/96 Buried Alive 0.40 $798,000

11/17/96 Survivor Series 0.58 $1,740,000

12/15/96 It's Time 0.35 $785,000

 

1997:

 

01/21/97 Royal Rumble 0.72 $2,180,000

02/16/97 The Final Four 0.50 $1,040,000

03/23/97 Wrestlemania 0.77 $2,460,000

04/20/97 Taker's Revenge 0.50 $1,080,000

05/11/97 A Cold Day in Hell 0.57 $1,270,000

06/08/97 King of the Ring 0.50 $1,590,000

07/06/97 Canadian Stampede 0.59 $1,320,000

08/03/97 SummerSlam 0.80 $2,760,000

09/07/97 Ground Zero 0.45 $1,580,000

10/08/97 Badd Blood 0.60 $2,110,000

11/09/97 Survivor Series 0.89 $3,140,000

12/07/97 D-Generation X 0.40 $1,510,000

 

1998:

 

01/18/98 Royal Rumble 0.94

02/15/98 No Way Out of Texas 0.52

03/29/98 Wrestlemania 2.34

04/26/98 Unforgiven 0.85

05/31/98 Over the Edge 0.58

06/28/98 King of the Ring 1.13

07/26/98 Fully Loaded 0.90

08/30/98 SummerSlam 1.63

09/27/98 Breakdown 0.86

10/18/98 Judgement Day 0.89

11/09/98 Survivor Series 0.89

12/13/98 Rock Bottom 0.78

 

1999:

 

01/24/99 Royal Rumble 1.91

02/14/99 St. Valentine's Day Massacre 1.21

03/28/99 Wrestlemania 2.32

04/25/99 Backlash 1.06

05/23/99 Over the Edge 1.12

06/27/99 King of the Ring 1.14

07/25/99 Fully Loaded 0.94

08/22/99 SummerSlam 1.71

09/26/99 Unforgiven 1.02

10/17/99 No Mercy 0.88

11/09/99 Survivor Series 1.14

12/12/99 Armageddon 1.10

[Guest Brian]

1996:

 

01/01/96 WWF Raw 2.61 2.61

01/08/96 WWF Raw 3.04 3.04

01/15/96 WWF Raw 2.40 2.40

01/22/96 WWF Raw 2.93 2.93

01/29/96 WWF Raw 2.41 2.41

02/05/96 WWF Raw 2.72 2.72

02/19/96 WWF Raw 3.10 3.10

02/26/96 WWF Raw 3.13 3.13

03/04/96 WWF Raw 3.62 3.62

03/11/96 WWF Raw 2.91 2.91

03/18/96 WWF Raw 2.90 2.90

03/25/96 WWF Raw 2.82 2.82

04/01/96 WWF Raw 2.94 2.94

04/08/96 WWF Raw 4.73 4.73

04/15/96 WWF Raw 3.12 3.12

04/22/96 WWF Raw 3.30 3.30

04/29/96 WWF Raw 3.92 3.92

05/06/96 WWF Raw 4.12 4.12

05/13/96 WWF Raw 3.54 3.54

05/20/96 WWF Raw 3.13 3.13

05/27/96 WWF Raw 3.34 3.34

06/03/96 WWF Raw 2.31 2.31

06/10/96 WWF Raw 2.74 2.74

06/17/96 WWF Raw 2.32 2.32

06/24/96 WWF Raw 2.71 2.71

07/01/96 WWF Raw 2.62 2.62

07/08/96 WWF Raw 2.53 2.53

07/15/96 WWF Raw 2.62 2.62

07/22/96 WWF Raw 2.21 2.21

07/29/96 WWF Raw 2.10 2.10

08/05/96 WWF Raw 2.82 2.82

08/12/96 WWF Raw 2.04 2.04

08/19/96 WWF Raw 2.91 2.91

09/09/96 WWF Raw 2.44 2.44

09/16/96 WWF Raw 2.12 2.12

09/23/96 WWF Raw 2.03 2.03

09/30/96 WWF Raw 2.32 2.32

10/07/96 WWF Raw 2.12 2.12

10/14/96 WWF Raw 1.84 1.84

10/21/96 WWF Raw 2.63 2.63

10/28/96 WWF Raw 2.02 2.02

11/04/96 WWF Raw 2.34 2.34

11/11/96 WWF Raw 2.50 2.50

11/18/96 WWF Raw 2.41 2.41

11/25/96 WWF Raw 2.10 2.10

12/02/96 WWF Raw 2.34 2.34

12/09/96 WWF Raw 2.30 2.30

12/16/96 WWF Raw 2.31 2.31

12/23/96 WWF Raw 1.52 1.52

12/30/96 WWF Raw 1.64 1.64

 

 

1997:

 

01/06/97 WWF Raw 2.14 2.14

01/13/97 WWF Raw 2.31 2.31

01/20/97 WWF Raw 2.23 2.23

01/27/97 WWF Raw 2.20 2.20

02/03/97 WWF Raw 2.64 2.61 2.63

02/13/97 WWF Raw 2.71 2.71

02/17/97 WWF Raw 2.21 2.01 2.13

02/24/97 WWF Raw 2.43 2.54 2.50

02/31/97 WWF Raw 2.31 2.62 2.44

03/03/97 WWF Raw 2.31 2.62 2.44

03/10/97 WWF Raw 2.33 2.40 2.34

03/17/97 WWF Raw 2.20 2.51 2.34

03/24/97 WWF Raw 2.41 2.62 2.53

03/31/97 WWF Raw 2.73 2.70 2.71

04/07/97 WWF Raw 2.02 2.41 2.23

04/14/97 WWF Raw 2.10 2.34 2.22

04/21/97 WWF Raw 2.73 2.82 2.74

04/28/97 WWF Raw 3.31 3.54 3.42

05/05/97 WWF Raw 3.34 3.53 3.41

05/12/97 WWF Raw 3.01 3.42 3.23

05/19/97 WWF Raw 3.42 3.81 3.63

05/26/97 WWF Raw 2.34 3.10 2.74

06/02/97 WWF Raw 2.34 2.64 2.51

06/09/97 WWF Raw 2.21 2.30 2.24

06/16/97 WWF Raw 2.40 2.51 2.44

06/23/97 WWF Raw 2.34 2.53 2.43

06/30/97 WWF Raw 2.42 2.54 2.50

07/07/97 WWF Raw 2.60 2.71 2.64

07/14/97 WWF Raw 2.42 2.95 2.63

07/21/97 WWF Raw 3.82 4.31 4.04

07/28/97 WWF Raw 2.84 3.01 2.92

08/04/97 WWF Raw 2.64 2.93 2.80

08/11/97 WWF Raw 2.50 3.41 2.93

08/18/97 WWF Raw 2.93 3.42 3.20

08/29/97 WWF Raw 1.63 1.63

09/05/97 WWF Raw 2.13 2.13

09/08/97 WWF Raw 2.10 2.31 2.22

09/15/97 WWF Raw 2.42 2.74 2.60

09/22/97 WWF Raw 2.41 2.34 2.40

09/29/97 WWF Raw 2.84 2.72 2.80

10/06/97 WWF Raw 3.04 3.12 3.10

10/13/97 WWF Raw 3.14 2.65 2.82

10/20/97 WWF Raw 2.91 3.04 3.00

10/27/97 WWF Raw 2.74 2.90 2.83

11/03/97 WWF Raw 2.50 2.72 2.61

11/10/97 WWF Raw 3.04 3.81 3.42

11/17/97 WWF Raw 3.01 3.34 3.14

11/24/97 WWF Raw 2.84 3.32 3.12

12/01/97 WWF Raw 2.74 3.34 3.02

12/08/97 WWF Raw 2.80 2.61 2.73

12/15/97 WWF Raw 2.92 3.04 3.00

12/22/97 WWF Raw 3.04 3.23 3.12

12/29/97 WWF Raw 3.32 4.01 3.62

 

1998:

 

01/05/98 WWF Raw 3.74 3.31 3.52

01/12/98 WWF Raw 3.91 3.73 3.82

01/19/98 WWF Raw 3.74 4.21 4.07

01/26/98 WWF Raw 3.52 3.54 3.53

02/02/98 WWF Raw 3.72 3.31 3.55

02/09/98 WWF Raw 3.21 3.24 3.22

02/23/98 WWF Raw 3.40 3.01 3.22

03/02/98 WWF Raw 3.84 3.94 3.90

03/09/98 WWF Raw 3.52 3.68 3.63

03/17/98 WWF Raw 4.21 4.62 4.41

03/23/98 WWF Raw 3.51 3.73 3.62

03/30/98 WWF Raw 4.04 3.62 3.83

04/06/98 WWF Raw 4.34 4.53 4.43

04/13/98 WWF Raw 4.32 4.94 4.63

04/20/98 WWF Raw 4.34 4.43 4.42

04/27/98 WWF Raw 5.54 5.92 5.71

05/04/98 WWF Raw 5.52 5.54 5.53

05/11/98 WWF Raw 4.64 4.93 4.81

05/18/98 WWF Raw 5.33 5.44 5.41

05/25/98 WWF Raw 4.13 4.32 4.22

06/01/98 WWF Raw 4.42 4.34 4.39

06/08/98 WWF Raw 4.41 4.53 4.33

06/15/98 WWF Raw 4.12 4.54 4.33

06/22/98 WWF Raw 4.12 4.53 4.34

06/29/98 WWF Raw 5.23 5.64 5.44

07/06/98 WWF Raw 3.64 4.43 4.03

07/13/98 WWF Raw 4.41 4.92 4.65

07/20/98 WWF Raw 4.61 5.43 5.02

07/27/98 WWF Raw 4.21 5.54 4.92

08/03/98 WWF Raw 4.54 5.20 4.93

08/10/98 WWF Raw 4.34 4.82 4.55

08/17/98 WWF Raw 3.93 4.44 4.23

08/24/98 WWF Raw 4.91 4.52 4.72

09/05/98 WWF Raw 2.44 2.73 2.61

09/14/98 WWF Raw 3.91 4.20 4.03

09/21/98 WWF Raw 4.24 3.81 4.03

09/28/98 WWF Raw 4.42 4.94 4.65

10/05/98 WWF Raw 4.53 4.62 4.55

10/12/98 WWF Raw 4.74 4.93 4.84

10/19/98 WWF Raw 5.03 5.04 5.04

10/26/98 WWF Raw 4.42 4.64 4.53

11/02/98 WWF Raw 4.73 4.94 4.84

11/09/98 WWF Raw 4.94 5.12 5.03

11/16/98 WWF Raw 5.43 5.64 5.54

11/23/98 WWF Raw 4.74 5.03 4.91

11/30/98 WWF Raw 4.84 5.21 5.03

12/07/98 WWF Raw 5.13 5.24 5.14

12/14/98 WWF Raw 5.33 5.12 5.23

12/21/98 WWF Raw 4.44 5.02 4.73

12/28/98 WWF Raw 4.34 5.43 4.92

 

1999:

 

01/04/99 WWF Raw 5.71 5.82 5.74

01/11/99 WWF Raw 5.52 5.54 5.53

01/18/99 WWF Raw 5.34 5.83 5.60

01/25/99 WWF Raw 5.74 5.21 5.53

02/01/99 WWF Raw 5.64 5.94 5.81

02/13/99 WWF Raw 3.84 4.81 4.30

02/15/99 WWF Raw 6.12 5.73 5.94

02/22/99 WWF Raw 5.63 5.54 5.60

03/01/99 WWF Raw 6.44 6.32 6.40

03/08/99 WWF Raw 6.53 6.41 6.44

03/15/99 WWF Raw 5.84 5.83 5.84

03/22/99 WWF Raw 6.44 6.42 6.43

03/29/99 WWF Raw 6.64 6.43 6.54

04/05/99 WWF Raw 5.53 6.14 5.83

04/12/99 WWF Raw 6.44 6.21 6.33

04/19/99 WWF Raw 5.74 6.42 6.10

04/26/99 WWF Raw 5.84 6.13 6.00

05/03/99 WWF Raw 5.94 6.92 6.43

05/10/99 WWF Raw 7.82 8.44 8.13

05/17/99 WWF Raw 5.64 7.12 6.40

05/24/99 WWF Raw 7.24 7.13 7.20

05/31/99 WWF Raw 5.84 6.72 6.33

06/07/99 WWF Raw 6.43 6.94 6.60

06/14/99 WWF Raw 6.54 6.81 6.64

06/21/99 WWF Raw 5.94 6.12 6.03

06/28/99 WWF Raw 6.43 7.24 6.83

07/05/99 WWF Raw 5.74 6.21 6.03

07/12/99 WWF Raw 5.42 6.53 6.00

07/19/99 WWF Raw 6.04 6.53 6.31

07/26/99 WWF Raw 6.92 7.34 7.13

08/02/99 WWF Raw 5.84 5.93 5.90

08/09/99 WWF Raw 6.23 6.54 6.40

08/16/99 WWF Raw 6.44 6.83 6.62

08/23/99 WWF Raw 5.64 5.72 5.70

08/30/99 WWF Raw 4.23 4.24 4.24

09/06/99 WWF Raw 4.64 4.23 4.43

09/13/99 WWF Raw 5.74 6.23 6.02

09/20/99 WWF Raw 5.94 6.21 6.10

09/27/99 WWF Raw 6.54 7.01 6.81

10/04/99 WWF Raw 5.94 5.92 5.93

10/11/99 WWF Raw 6.04 6.13 6.14

10/18/99 WWF Raw 5.54 5.30 5.42

10/25/99 WWF Raw 5.53 5.64 5.60

11/01/99 WWF Raw 5.93 5.94 5.94

11/08/99 WWF Raw 5.14 5.63 5.41

11/15/99 WWF Raw 6.34 6.24 6.31

11/22/99 WWF Raw 5.52 5.60 5.54

11/29/99 WWF Raw 6.32 6.74 6.53

12/06/99 WWF Raw 5.63 6.34 6.02

12/13/99 WWF Raw 6.13 6.10 6.12

12/20/99 WWF Raw 5.53 6.14 5.82

12/27/99 WWF Raw 5.60 6.11 5.90

[Guest pochorenella]

The main eventers are the stars. People pay to see the stars. This isn't complicated, it's fundimental wrestling logic. Yes, a good card top to bottom will keep people entertained, but the main event is what people come to see. Most people don't look at a card, analize it from top to bottom, and then make their decision. They remember who's booked on top, and they decide based on that. Simple wrestling logic.

 

Of course the Main Event (and who's on there) is the main factor for people wanting to see a show or not, I'm not saying otherwise. But the rest of the card DOES matter, and who's facing who in the main event DOES matter. I sincerely doubt that people would tune in massively for a WrestleMania main event that featured Steve Austin against Tugboat just because it's Austin wrestling there. If so, then all the PPVs with Ustin in the ME would do the same because everybody would just want to see him no matter who he faced, right?

 

Austin vs. Rock = good ratings

Austin vs. Berzerker = shit ratings

 

And I'm not putting blame on any of those jobber guys, but I know I wouldn't pay for a show that featured Brooklin Brawler or Outback Jack on the main event. Would you? That's your prerrogative of course. You can cheer for whomever you want, but don't lay ALL the blame on one guy. Like I said before, I'm not exonerating Michaels (or anybody, for that matter) for drawing ability (or lack of). He's the main guy responsible, no doubt. But who's he paired with is gonna be a direct influence on wether people tune in for the show or not.

 

And what I meant by HBK-haters, are those guys that simply hate the guy because of his backstage behavior and doesn' t at least recognize his in-ring ability. If you consider yourself in that category, then fine. As I said, you can cheer for whomever you want.

 

All I'm trying to do here is to analize the circumstances that make a show succesful or not, wether it's good crowds, good buyrates or whatever. There are a lot of factors that come into play. Sure, the guy on top of the card is directly responsible because he's supposed to be the main draw, but he can't be put to blame if the show draws poorly when the rest of the show is a 2 hour nechrofilia segment, like what happened recently.

 

Let's keep discussing this in an intelligent way, not misinterpreting what people say. If you got a point, try to defend it. Nobody'll blame you for doing it.

[Secret Agent 0]

05/10/99 WWF Raw 7.82 8.44 8.13

 

That had to be the show where Mankind did the "This is your life" segment with Rock. Either that or something big happened.

 

I also wonder what the ratings were for the 2001 RAW where Austin won the title back from Angle after a 2 week stint as champion.

[Guest El Satanico]

Isn't the point here that HBK and his fans claim that he is a big draw even when it's obvious that he wasn't that big of draw?

 

Talk about the midcard all you want, but do you honestly believe that Vince factors in the whole card when deciding if his top guy is a draw or not? However he ignored it when HBK didn't draw that well.

[Guest El Luchadore Magnifico]

That had to be the show where Mankind did the "This is your life" segment with Rock. Either that or something big happened.

 

I also wonder what the ratings were for the 2001 RAW where Austin won the title back from Angle after a 2 week stint as champion.

 

Nope, you're right. That segment did draw an 8.4.

[Guest bob_barron]

05/10/99 WWF Raw 7.82 8.44 8.13

 

That had to be the show where Mankind did the "This is your life" segment with Rock. Either that or something big happened.

 

I also wonder what the ratings were for the 2001 RAW where Austin won the title back from Angle after a 2 week stint as champion.

Nope-

 

The RAW with This is Your Life was in September of 99

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

May 10.....hmm....can't think of what happened on May 10. Owen Hart hadn't died yet, Austin was still champ and feuding with UT.....what happened to pop it that high?

[Guest bob_barron]

No Nitro

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Oh that explains it.