Guest bcu1979 Report post Posted November 22, 2002 Reading this week's Torch was like reading an Observer towards the later days of WCW. Business is down so everyone is pointing fingers and blaming someone else. A summary could basically be Triple H and everyone associated with him has major heat. But I'll mention a couple of specific things: Triple H has heat for not selling enough on tv. He is not backing off or showing weakness to his opponents. (i.e. Kane, Shawn Michaels) Instead, he is dominating them when he should be playing the vulnerable champ role. No one defends Triple H's politics anymore. (And this is coming for the Torch, which used to defend Triple H to no end.) He is seen as someone who is only looking out for himself while trying to portray himself as a company man. He knew there was pressure on him to lose the title so he lost to Michaels, who is no threat to him long term. Same goes with Scott Steiner, who could be a babyface challenger for Triple H early next year. Triple H is also trying to defend the poor ratings for the RAW show (which revolves around him) by saying he is "miscast" as a heel because the fans want to cheer for him. He is talking about turning face now, which would cause even more chaos on RAW. Steiner would then have to be turned heel. The RAW wrestlers are getting increasingly frustrated with the power structure. They believe even if an idea is well received by one writer, the rest will shoot it down if doesn't benefit their political games. Some wrestlers also believe that some guys are favored by management and given numerous chances to get over (Edge, Jeff Hardy) while others are never even considered because Vince has already decided against using them. Shane McMahon is seen as a sympathetic figure by the wrestlers because of the perception that he and Triple H are not tight and he is not thrilled with Triple H and Stephanie's political power. Shane has no defined role in the company and is not seen as being part of the day-to-day operations. One of the reasons Raven is not pushed may be because he's seen as someone who speaks their mind and calls a spade a spade. Triple H prefers working with guys like RVD, Chris Jericho and Booker T who don't make a lot of complaints for the most part. In one bit of good news, Keller speculates that Vince might have been influenced by the response RVD got at MSG since he pays more attention to fan reactions at MSG. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Zero_Cool Report post Posted November 22, 2002 In one bit of good news, Keller speculates that Vince might have been influenced by the response RVD got at MSG since he pays more attention to fan reactions at MSG. Could this mean that RVD could actually win on Monday? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Mighty Damaramu Report post Posted November 22, 2002 Hopefully so...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mulatto Heat Report post Posted November 22, 2002 Triple H is also trying to defend the poor ratings for the RAW show (which revolves around him) by saying he is "miscast" as a heel because the fans want to cheer for him. Yeah, because he's a face draw of Rocky and Austin caliber. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted November 22, 2002 so beating up Mattitude V1 and Nowinski at Survivor Series and taunting Jericho on Raw is not heelistic behavoir? Steiner works best as a heel in my opinion, Scott is only good as a face if he is part of a tag team. HHH losing to Kane in his own gimmick match, the Casket Match = company man Too bad it was not a clean win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Flyboy Report post Posted November 22, 2002 In one bit of good news, Keller speculates that Vince might have been influenced by the response RVD got at MSG since he pays more attention to fan reactions at MSG. Could this mean that RVD could actually win on Monday? If yes... I will prepare to MARK THE FUCK OUT. That is all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mulatto Heat Report post Posted November 22, 2002 so beating up Mattitude V1 and Nowinski at Survivor Series and taunting Jericho on Raw is not heelistic behavoir? Jericho, Hardy and Nowinski are heels themselves. Steiner is being hyped as a face, from what I can see. The pubescents who can't even talk to women like his "I get pussy" rants. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest creativename Report post Posted November 22, 2002 If HHH turns again, he'll start to be a poor man's Big Show. Too many changes are going to kill his character (as if crap like the necro angle hasn't done enough already). It would be silly if he turned face before Mania. Maybe after then, as his character seems more of a face character (he's a tweener now anyway). When a heel is booked that strongly it's hard for fans not to cheer him. Also, his matches are just killing the crowd nowadays. Once could make the argument that maybe if got less offense in, as a face is theoretically supposed to do, his matches would improve. However it seems that his matches were just as poor before his heel turn, and people were hoping that the heel turn would improve them. I say put him at the semi-main event/upper-midcard level, stop revolving the entire show around him, and end with the constant PoocHHHie-style references. Of coure that's just conventional smark wisdom, but it's almost guaranteed to improve business. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CanadianChick Report post Posted November 22, 2002 Triple H is also trying to defend the poor ratings for the RAW show (which revolves around him) by saying he is "miscast" as a heel because the fans want to cheer for him. He is talking about turning face now, which would cause even more chaos on RAW. Steiner would then have to be turned heel. Bwhahahha! HHH actually thinks that he'd be more over as a face? Didn't WWE try that already earlier this year? And what would his proof be of thinking that he would be more of a draw as a face? The RAW wrestlers are getting increasingly frustrated with the power structure. They believe even if an idea is well received by one writer, the rest will shoot it down if doesn't benefit their political games. Some wrestlers also believe that some guys are favored by management and given numerous chances to get over (Edge, Jeff Hardy) while others are never even considered because Vince has already decided against using them. Why do RAW wrestlers care about Edge's push? And it seems to me that Edge is over with his chances, so whats the problem? One of the reasons Raven is not pushed may be because he's seen as someone who speaks their mind and calls a spade a spade. Triple H prefers working with guys like RVD, Chris Jericho and Booker T who don't make a lot of complaints for the most part. Anybody else surprised that RVD doesn't have many complaints and is laid back? lol In one bit of good news, Keller speculates that Vince might have been influenced by the response RVD got at MSG since he pays more attention to fan reactions at MSG. Its about time. PUSH RVD! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest creativename Report post Posted November 22, 2002 Oops. I meant "turns", not changes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bcu1979 Report post Posted November 22, 2002 In one bit of good news, Keller speculates that Vince might have been influenced by the response RVD got at MSG since he pays more attention to fan reactions at MSG. Could this mean that RVD could actually win on Monday? The plan was for a Triple H/Michaels rematch at Armageddon so I wouldn't get my hopes up about RVD winning the title on RAW. Besides, Triple H was the one pushing for Michaels to win the belt in the first place so it wouldn't go to any potential long term threat. And things could always get worse before they get better. In his column this week, Keller actually suggests Triple H/Kevin Nash for the World Title as a co-main event at WrestleMania as a credible idea. His "ideal" scenario is for Michaels to pin RVD and Booker T clean before dropping the title to Triple H at Aramgeddon. Triple H will then wrestle Steiner at the next two PPVs before facing Nash at WM. I thought it was some kind of WWTHD parody but the scary thing is that it sounds like a WWE idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Phr33k Report post Posted November 22, 2002 Too many changes are going to kill his character (as if crap like the necro angle hasn't done enough already). You cannot kill that which is already dead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Big McLargeHuge Report post Posted November 22, 2002 This is pure speculation! HHH can do no wrong! None of it's true! You're just smark sheep! /Smarkzone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jester Report post Posted November 22, 2002 My solution to the whole HHH thing is to fire his ass, whip the writers into shape and inform the entire locker-room that anyone who isn't feeling it can not feel it over in Japan, or go begging to NWA TNA. Since that isn't going to happen, let me hope for a slightly less impossible situation: send HHH to the midcard for some decent fueds where he puts someone new over (yeah, and Trish Stratus says she wants to be my love slave). Don't make him the focus of Raw. And for god's sake, change something about him. Change that damn overplayed song (Not gonna happen as long as they think it sells anthologies). Stop the water spit. Find a new personality for him. Oh, who am I kidding. They'll turn him face, Raw will revolve around his turn, and since he's squashed everyone heel and face, nobody will get excited about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest AlwaysPissedOff Report post Posted November 22, 2002 In one bit of good news, Keller speculates that Vince might have been influenced by the response RVD got at MSG since he pays more attention to fan reactions at MSG. Could this mean that RVD could actually win on Monday? The plan was for a Triple H/Michaels rematch at Armageddon so I wouldn't get my hopes up about RVD winning the title on RAW. Besides, Triple H was the one pushing for Michaels to win the belt in the first place so it wouldn't go to any potential long term threat. And things could always get worse before they get better. In his column this week, Keller actually suggests Triple H/Kevin Nash for the World Title as a co-main event at WrestleMania as a credible idea. His "ideal" scenario is for Michaels to pin RVD and Booker T clean before dropping the title to Triple H at Aramgeddon. Triple H will then wrestle Steiner at the next two PPVs before facing Nash at WM. I thought it was some kind of WWTHD parody but the scary thing is that it sounds like a WWE idea. Damn, you sure do know how to depress someone... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BoboBrazil Report post Posted November 22, 2002 Nash will just get injured again within a month of coming back if it takes that long. Don't worry about him. RVD won't be winning the belt Monday Night though. That is reserved for HHH at Armageddon. I wouldn't be surprised if RVD turned heel out of nowhere just to kill off his face heat, which won't work because he was still getting face pops during the Invasion last year as a heel. Maybe HHH will let him be the jobber of his new Horsemen group that is being formed Don't worry though, Linda says new stars should be elevated "soon" aka when Undertaker and HHH retire, which should be somewhere around 2020. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cynicalprofit Report post Posted November 22, 2002 Some wrestlers also believe that some guys are favored by management and given numerous chances to get over (Edge, Jeff Hardy) while others are never even considered because Vince has already decided against using them. Im willing to bet these are all ecw/wcw guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest snowfan Report post Posted November 22, 2002 Nash will just get injured again within a month of coming back if it takes that long. Don't worry about him. RVD won't be winning the belt Monday Night though. That is reserved for HHH at Armageddon. I wouldn't be surprised if RVD turned heel out of nowhere just to kill off his face heat, which won't work because he was still getting face pops during the Invasion last year as a heel. Maybe HHH will let him be the jobber of his new Horsemen group that is being formed Don't worry though, Linda says new stars should be elevated "soon" aka when Undertaker and HHH retire, which should be somewhere around 2020. with "legends" matches ONLY every 2 years thereafter.... always going over of course... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted November 22, 2002 What I don't get is... he likes working with OUR 3 favorites on the show too...because they don't speak out against him... but he still can't put any of them over. RVD's reaction at MSG won't win him anything on Monday...but it may put him in like for consideration later for something to happen for him. The fact that it took over a year of good reactions for them to care speaks volumes on its own Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted November 22, 2002 its because RVD refuses to get a hair cut you know nobody can have a ponytail besides god-uh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Human Fly Report post Posted November 22, 2002 Triple H is also trying to defend the poor ratings for the RAW show (which revolves around him) by saying he is "miscast" as a heel because the fans want to cheer for him. He is talking about turning face now, which would cause even more chaos on RAW. Steiner would then have to be turned heel. Uggh this means he's going to turn face against evil owner Bischoff. We haven't seen that storyline enugh. Also, who is he trying to fool? When he was a babyface Champ his run tanked ratings and they freaked out and put the belt on Hogan, do they think 6 mohts later a HHH babyface run is going to set the world on fire? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Satanico Report post Posted November 22, 2002 What I don't get is... he likes working with OUR 3 favorites on the show too...because they don't speak out against him... but he still can't put any of them over. Well it doesn't mean that HHH actually likes them and wants to help them out. They just won't complain about being buried as much as other guys so HHH likes using them. It's fairly obvious Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest NoCalMike Report post Posted November 22, 2002 Everyone in the company sans Triple H, needs to rid themselves of any idea pitched by Steph or Vince. It is obvious THOSE TWO are the ones that call the most important shots, and so far we see what those have been. Vince is to blame, he needs to get a reality check and try something DIFFERENT because the Triple H ship is sinking. Of course I think most of us have been expressing these sentiments for a long time now, and nothing has changed, so it will be interesting to see exactly WHAT IT TAKES for Vince to decide to move in a DIFFERENT direction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheFranchise 0 Report post Posted November 22, 2002 Triple H is also trying to defend the poor ratings for the RAW show (which revolves around him) by saying he is "miscast" as a heel because the fans want to cheer for him. He is talking about turning face now, which would cause even more chaos on RAW. Steiner would then have to be turned heel. I'd personally love to see Triple H as a face again, i think (and i KNOW y'all disagree here) that his best work WAS as a face, the DX days, and especially when he came in the Royal Rumble this year, best RR enterence ever. I'd also want to see Trip as a face against a heel Steiner, since Steiner is the obvious choice of the two for a heel run, we'll have to see what happens, this Steiner thing won't last, they are just new guy pops, but it's fun to watch, especially the thing Stiener will be remembered for, "GIMME THE FUCKIN MIC" will go down in history Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest FeArHaVoC Report post Posted November 22, 2002 Triple H prefers working with guys like RVD, Chris Jericho and Booker T who don't make a lot of complaints for the most part. Remember back when Jericho use to be known for speaking his mind against Management, Politics, his dislikes, Storylines etc? Hell, he even use to go to the Production meetings. We need our WcW and ECW Alumni to join together in the Mid-Card like the Clique did years ago to take over. The Radicals, Jericho, RVD, Dudleys, Dreamer, Mysterio, etc. If WWF "Home Grown" guys like Edge & Angle don't want to speak up, Fuck em'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CanadianChris Report post Posted November 22, 2002 I think the answer is clear... Shane is going to have to try a hostile takeover of WWE for real. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cawthon777 0 Report post Posted November 22, 2002 I think Steiner has a lot of potential as a face, at least short term. I thought there would have been huge money in face Steiner against heel Goldberg (remember that 6 week run?) in a well-hyped PPV match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest humongous2002 Report post Posted November 22, 2002 What I don't get is... he likes working with OUR 3 favorites on the show too...because they don't speak out against him... but he still can't put any of them over. Well it doesn't mean that HHH actually likes them and wants to help them out. They just won't complain about being buried as much as other guys so HHH likes using them. It's fairly obvious The reason this guys don't complaint due to the fact that they will be demoted to midcard status as soon as they start complaining. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nikowwf Report post Posted November 22, 2002 People WANT to cheer for Steiner and don't want to see HHH at all. How would you turn him face to fight a heel Steiner? People would sh*t all over that...... niko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mattdotcom Report post Posted November 23, 2002 "Rob, I couldn't help but notice your reaction in the GARRRRRDEN at SURRRRRVI-VOR SEEEER-IES! and I, the great Vince McMahon decree that in your match Monday, you will be allowed one more special "offensive" move. And Hunter and I have decided that you will get...ONE MORE FOREARM SHOT! YOU GOT HIM! ONETWOTHREE! NO YOU DIDN'T!" "Now, wait a min-" "You-uh....don't interrupt me-uh....*POSES**PUTS FINGERS IN EARS*lalala-uh....lalala-UH!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
