Eddy/Edge = Misawa/Kawada???

[Guest ManKinnd]

Now at first viewing of both these matches, and I'm referring to the Eddy/Edge SD No DQ match and the "best match ever" Kawada/Misawa from 94, I thought of these matches as nothing special. On second, third, and even a fourth viewing (and with a little help from the smarks), I finally see it. Now, this is, of course, just my interpritation, but that's what wrestling's all about, right?

OK, in the beginnings of both of these matches there are two very good wrestlers out there that go out to wrestle the other. In Eddy/Edge, there was neck work from Eddy and some arm work from Edge. In Misawa/Kawada, Kawada worked the arm and Misawa worked the leg. Now around the halfway point in both matches, it seemed both workers just thought "You know what, I really hate this guy. How bout I just beat the shit out of him." It was clear in Eddy/Edge; they brought out a friggin' ladder and destroyed each other with it. In Kawada/Misawa, you saw Kawada give up on the arm work; you could see it in his face. He immediately went after the neck, suplexing and chopping Misawa. Then Misawa came back and said "Well I can drop you on your head too." And both matches rocked. Now I see it.

Thoughts?

[Guest BionicRedneck]

OK,

 

I'll actually try and address your point in this thread, as the one in the WWE was basically full of insults towards the Puro folder.

 

To be honest, you can really draw comparisons between any two matches. In this case, I think Misawa/Kawada was the greatest match ever, several years in the making and that will be remembered for years to come. Edge/Eddy was a very good effort, but it descended into a bit of a spot-fest, and isn't even the best WWE Match on SmackDown this year.

 

Although, in a way, I can see your point, there isn't really much to it.

[Guest DragonflyKid]

I didn't think the Edge/Eddy match was **** let alone in the same league as MM/Kawada 6/94. Yes there was animosity between Edge and Eddy but no where near the level of MM/Kawada, plus the psychology factor isn't even comparable. I have only seen the Edge/Eddy match once but it wasn't memorable, maybe it's a match that can grow on me but I doubt I'll go out looking for the tape because it didn't seem like it had the potential to ever blow me away. Everything is comparable in one way or another, Eddy/Edge and MM/Kawada have very few points of comparisions IMO.

[Guest ManKinnd]

I agree with the difference in quality of the matches. The only thing I attempted to do was draw parallelisms between the two, story wise, in the ring.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Well, storyline wise, I'm really not getting this. Eddy's animosity towards Edge was based on the fact that "all the girls cheer Edge" which really doesn't hold up to "I've hated you for years but teamed up with you anyway, and you've ruined my dream countless times, so now I'm going to anialate you!"

 

They've got similar ideas, but one is on a completely different levle.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Not to go off topic..but what do you think was the best SD! match this year then?

[Guest wolverine]

The best Smackdown match I saw this year was Benoit vs. Rey. That match was a hell of a lot of fun.

[Guest Jubuki]

With Misawa/Kawada, it wasn't so much a "I give up, now I kill you" thing - what separates it from just about everything else I've seen in a pro setting is how well they give off the impression that they're throwing absolutely everything they have at each other. Kawada's intensity when he survives a flurry and comes back, kicking away; Misawa's classic looks to the crowd, wondering when the Hell Kawada's going to stay down and how much of himself he has to give to get the job done...WWE matches just don't do that.

 

About the closest thing I can recall to that was the second half of the Austin/Rock match from Wrestlemania 17, where the whole thrust of the match was that they were the only two who could take each other so far. Of course, it was still something of a crap match with such limited movesets, the early brawling, and the idiotic run-ins, but that's a lot closer in spirit and story to Misawa/Kawada than anything WWE has done since. Working body parts happens in all kinds of matches; that isn't what makes them great.

[Guest Banky]

Man oh man, even I thought this guys comparison shit was incredibly lame - and no one ripped him a new one? I am shocked.

 

I disagree with your original statement. The Eddie/Edge match was a spotfest, and the first 10 minutes were essentially restholds. The backround to the feud was pretty goofy, and not very memorable. I think the Eddie/RVD series was much better because it brought Van Dam out of his usual spot to spot style. The Judgment Day match with these two competitors was very good. Maybe even the MOTY for the WWE. I found it to be greatly satisfying.

[Guest Black Tiger]

I can see quite a few comparisons to both matches.

 

The end sequence, Misawa used the one move he KNEW Kawada couldn't get out of the TD 91. Edge used his DDT off the ladder to finish off Eddie.

 

Edge and Kawada, were the guys who the fans in each match were pulling for, each man was coming off a couple of losses to Guerrero and Misawa respectivly.

 

I don't think its fair to judge them both on the same level, 1994 AJPW and 2002 WWE are like night and day. I love the TV show Seinfeld, and I love Law and Order, it doesn't mean one is really better than the other they're two different styles.

 

 

Banky, go to the WWE folder and read this thread its full of anti-puroresu posts. What the hell does the WWE folder have against the puroresu folder anyways? We care about the damn IN RING PRODUCT and not who's doing the bosses daughter.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I really don't see how Edge is comprable to Kawada, or Eddy is comprable to Misawa. Edge lost one singles match to Eddy through interferance, Kawada lost every match against Misawa because he just couldn't beat the guy. If the "one guy coming off a few losses faces guy who has one a bunch" storyline can relate a match to Misawa/Kawada, then an infinite amount of matches could be related to 6/3/94. I think it takes more than that to draw a comparison.

 

And yes, they are night and day...because one is in a different universe than the other. It doesn't make sense to say "different" styles, as an excuse for one match being better. Misawa/Kawada were more effective with what they did, so they had the better match.

 

I think many posters in the WWE folder would rather be applauded for saying something stupid then be told that what they said was morronic.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

I really don't see how Edge is comprable to Kawada, or Eddy is comprable to Misawa. Edge lost one singles match to Eddy through interferance, Kawada lost every match against Misawa because he just couldn't beat the guy.

Not saying because I disagree since I don't, but Eddy beat Edge twice before the Smackdown No DQ match(Smackdown after SummerSlam and at Unforgiven the night before). Also, neither match had interference as Eddy cheated to win on one and beat him clean at the PPV.

 

Just wanted to clear that up.

[Guest Daddy X]

There was so much more to Kawada vs. Misawa than "Two guys work body parts and then get pissed at each other so actually try hard".... The story going into it was years of frustration and Kawada being screwed over by the bookers. Misawa... The golden child of Baba... Kawada, probably better but never given the chance to shine. Kawada had to prove to the world that he was better than his former partner. He had to show Misawa that he was more deserving and he had to shove this whole company up the bookers asses and prove that he was the man to lead them through the end of the Century. Kawada would walk into that ring as a man who would not lose. There was no way in hell that Kawada would leave that building without the Triple Crown. Unfortunatly, Misawa held tough... Survived Kawada's brutality and dished out his own. You really can't get that depth out of Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

There was so much more to Kawada vs. Misawa than "Two guys work body parts and then get pissed at each other so actually try hard".... The story going into it was years of frustration and Kawada being screwed over by the bookers. Misawa... The golden child of Baba... Kawada, probably better but never given the chance to shine. Kawada had to prove to the world that he was better than his former partner. He had to show Misawa that he was more deserving and he had to shove this whole company up the bookers asses and prove that he was the man to lead them through the end of the Century. Kawada would walk into that ring as a man who would not lose. There was no way in hell that Kawada would leave that building without the Triple Crown. Unfortunatly, Misawa held tough... Survived Kawada's brutality and dished out his own. You really can't get that depth out of Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero.

This guy makes a good point. 6/3/94 was about a hell of alot more than limb working and frustration. It was about Misawa surviving the toughest challenge of his career to prove once and for all that he has taken Jumbo's position as the 1#native aka Da Man. Edge and Eddy were hardly battling for the top spot in the company.

 

And there are plenty of matches that use the start with traditional wrestling followed by frustration and than brawling formula. Benoit/Angle Wrestlemania 17, Bret/Owen Wrestlemania 10, .............etc.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Not saying because I disagree since I don't, but Eddy beat Edge twice before the Smackdown No DQ match(Smackdown after SummerSlam and at Unforgiven the night before). Also, neither match had interference as Eddy cheated to win on one and beat him clean at the PPV.

 

Just wanted to clear that up.

 

Ah, I was thinking of the Smackdown match were he cheated to win when I typed "interferance." Also, what do you mean "after Summerslam and at Unforgiven the night before?" I've really fallen off on WWE dates, so this confused me a bit.

 

Thanks for clearing that up, though.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Also, what do you mean "after Summerslam and at Unforgiven the night before?" I've really fallen off on WWE dates, so this confused me a bit.

I meant the first Smackdown after the SummerSlam PPV(it was the #1 Contender's Tourney for the Unforgiven main event) and the Unforgiven PPV, itself. I honestly don't know the dates of the shows, so I'll have to edit them in later.

[Guest Banky]

I don't understand why many in the WWE bash the puro folder, maybe they are just afraid to challenge you guys one on one. Personally, I too am a little afraid to discuss Puro with *some* of the guys in here. I think their resentment has more to do with some of the attitudes that a lot of the posters have as well as little ignorance in regards to the different style.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I don't understand why many in the WWE bash the puro folder, maybe they are just afraid to challenge you guys one on one.

I would agree with that.

 

Of course, if you ask them, it's always "they're elitist bastards" or the like. I liked how a few made comments in a recent thread, but then when they were addressed, there were no further replies.

 

Hey, I thought Mr Zsasz and Anglesault were supposed to back up ManKinnd here against these "pompous assholes" (direct quote). What happened?

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I don't see the cause of this conflict. The most "feared" of the posters in here didn't say anything that could be taken as offensive, so I see no problem with this forrum or the attitudes of the people who post here.

 

I don't have any reason to care about what's said in the WWE folder. If they come here and cause a disturbance (which has happened in the past) then I would try to work things out with them, but until then, they're free to have as many issues with this folder as they want.

[Guest Banky]

My first post in this thread mentioned how I was shocked that this guy did not get a new one ripped for such a ridiculous comparison. In the past, there have been such incidents.

[Guest Jubuki]

The topic? Anyone? Or is this going to meander more than a Dusty Rhodes match?

[Guest Banky]

The topic? Anyone? Or is this going to meander more than a Dusty Rhodes match?

Case in point.

[Guest wolverine]

GO AWAY.

[Guest bob_barron]

The topic?  Anyone?  Or is this going to meander more than a Dusty Rhodes match?

Case in point.

What is your problem Banky?? You're basically just trolling here.

 

Jubuki just wanted to know if anyone else was going to discuss the comparison made between Eddy/Edge and Misawa/Kawada

[Guest Jubuki]

Banky, if you ask for it, you're going to get it. Next time, act like you have something creating positive pressure inside your skull and don't ask for it (and don't pull a thread so far off-topic just so you can piss and moan about the attitudes of other people - people you don't have to interact with - in the process). I shouldn't have to tell you these things.

[Guest Banky]

Banky, if you ask for it, you're going to get it. Next time, act like you have something creating positive pressure inside your skull and don't ask for it (and don't pull a thread so far off-topic just so you can piss and moan about the attitudes of other people - people you don't have to interact with - in the process). I shouldn't have to tell you these things.

Wow, I'll make sure to keep that in mind. I'll make sure never to steer off track to insult anyone EVER - because Jabuki says so.

 

*irony*

 

With that, I'll leave this thread. And don't post any smart ass comments back, because then my 'pissing and moaning' will continue.

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

I knwo the reason why most WWE folder regulars don't like the puro folder regs, and it's actually a solid case.

 

Whenever somebody starts talking about a high-quality WWE match, somebody always has to bring up a puro match that they thought was better. It goes almost without fail. And usually it's RickyChosyu doing it. Nothing too personal, Ricky, just something I noticed. You know your shit, and I applaud you for that, but you do seem to be a bitter puro fuckhead 9 times outta 10.

[Guest wolverine]

NAME THE MATCHES.

 

If you want to start debating, I'm sure there's plenty of people here who are game.

[Guest Jubuki]

Wow, check the reading comprehension skills on this lot.

 

Here's a clue for anyone interested:

 

The person who STARTED THE THREAD ADMITTED MISAWA/KAWADA IS BETTER.

 

Annnnnnnnd, in this case, the first person to bring it up was....RollingChop. Hey now, two names starting with R doesn't make them the same person - you have to look at the rest of it before moving forward with identification.

 

Yes, it happened. Maybe someone should open his/her eyes next time and READ before trying to instigate the usual 4th-grade nonsense.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

To be quite honest, I can't think of a single time RollingChop did that either. How often do you think the WWE comes up aroudn here, anyway? I don't mean to be rude, but there's a seperate folder for that, and even on the rare occasion that it does come up, hardly anyone actually compares it to the Japanese promotions. If you have a problem and would like to solve it, great, but being this vague won't help anyone. I'm not even sure which one of us you were talking about. You say "without fail" and "9 times out of 10" like we should know what you're talking about, and I certainly have no idea.