Planning out the inevitable

[Guest Loss4Words]

"What does any of that have to do with Austin refusing to work with Jarrett?"

 

It shows that Jarrett was not main event potential, and it was obvious since he couldn't draw heat to save his life. Usually, people prove themselves BEFORE they are put on top. They were wanting to put Jarrett on top and justify it later, and that never leads anywhere good.

[Guest Big McLargeHuge]

If Austin had worked a program with Jarrett it could have given him that little nudge he needed to get into the main event picture in the WWF.

Thing is though, a little nudge would not have gotten him to the top. Again, he wasn't over, the push was failing, and his valet was getting the majority of the heat whenever they were in the ring. He was reduced to beating up women (insert Austin wife beating joke here) before fans started responding to him. A nudge would imply that he just needed that little mmph to get him up to the next level. Which isn't the case. At least in my opinion. I don't think anyone would've bought him as a legit threat to the title. I certainly didn't. And that was when he held the WCW title.

[Guest NoCalMike]

I agree that Austin's gimmick has run it's course, and now every wrestler basically has a piece of Austin's gimmick in it anyway. Plus anything involving Hogan/Vince/Bischoff wrestling, is just setting the company back because the WWE needs to concentrate on making people care about CURRENT and FUTURE stars. This is where the WCW failed big time, everytime they rid themelves of a "star" for awhile, they would just bring them back, push them to the moon, and when the fans didn't take to it, they had no one else pushed or "elevated" into the proper place so they were fucked.

[Guest Army Eye]

"What does any of that have to do with Austin refusing to work with Jarrett?"

 

It shows that Jarrett was not main event potential, and it was obvious since he couldn't draw heat to save his life. Usually, people prove themselves BEFORE they are put on top. They were wanting to put Jarrett on top and justify it later, and that never leads anywhere good.

That still is nothing for Austin to concern himself with. If he wants a job as a booker, I'm sure he could get himself that position.

[Guest Brian]

Austin was looking out for his character at the peak of his drawing potential. Like I said, it was also payback for the USWA stuff and the possibility that the Debra thing could make it legit. Austin at that point was protecting his character.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

For all that is holy, PLEASE...no Austin. He was more of a nuisance than HHH, he played the backstage politics more than anyone else, he was a spoiled brat, who's gimick had run its course, and wasn't getting over anywhere NEAR the way he used to.

He refused to sell others offense, and put anyone else over credibly, his promos had become a shadow of the former greatness, reduced to "What"s, and the usual "hell yeah".

He expected to remain at the top, and hold the belt, when his actions didn't deserve it.

And then of course, comes his ego/attitude problems, resulting in him walking out more than once, and then abusing his wife.

I for one, would rather hear about his bald ass being some Bubbas' BITCH, then him being back in the WWE.

Austin is essentially Hogan v2.0...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

I quote the above simply becuase it pretty much speaks my opinion for me.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Also, I want to mention that the All About Austin RAWs sucked much more than today's All About HHH RAWs. The Austin/McMahon angles and sketches ran into the midcard's time. At least HHH limits himself to a promo, an interview, and a match in one show.

 

40 minutes of Vince going into bars in "Texas" looking for Austin with only 2 entertaining minutes of Pat Patterson trying to flirt with some guy = BORING

[Guest MixxMaster]

It's good to see that some agree with me, I was thinking that this turned into Bizarro world.

The same people who think that NEW stars need to be elevated and pushed, are now wanting freakin' Austin back??? WTFisupwitdat?

The same people who say that bringing older veterans back isn't the solution, now clamoring over Austin, TSO(The Spoiled One) coming back?

A glass ceiling is bad enough. A concrete one is even worse...

[Guest Loss4Words]

When it was the All Austin show, RVD, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit were all elevated.

 

On the all HHH show, only HHH benefits.

 

That's the difference.

[Guest DARRYLXWF]

I think Austin's drawing power lies with him playing the face, and playing the face against a person that people REALLY want to see getting the shit beaten out of. Having said that, an Austin/Triple H feud would be a good start, as I really only enjoyed seeing Triple H wrestle against Foley and Austin.

[Guest RedJed]

Maybe its just my appeal to play off of real life situations in angles, but I don't see any other option other than at least trying to have Austin as a heel to start based on the circumstances. They publicly admitted he just walked off and left the company, anyway you look at that, its not a move a babyface would do. His last face run after last year SurSeries sucked if you asked me. I loved his heel run after Mania 17, especially before the Invasion happened. If you took the comedy fodder and the WHAT shit from that last heel run, I think the next one could be really strong.

 

Plus there is an overabundance of top level babyfaces right now it seems. With guys like Lesnar, RVD, and Booker needing to be elevated, throwing Austin as a face, especially on Raw, would be ridiculous. There is unfinished business that can be penciled in with all of those 3 faces and Austin in programs. As for a feud with Austin-HHH, no thanks. Been there, done that. Same with Austin-Taker, etc, etc.

 

Austin has plently of other options as a heel, and from what I gather, and this comes from JR, but he stated (in that same mentioned interview in the initial thread) that when he comes back, he will probably only be around for a year or two max, and then retire. Apparently he has "unfinished business" to take care of, and one would assume one of two things from that.

 

1) Payback from HHH in a program (ugh) which would really serve any purpose really or

2) A chance to elevate talent he never got to help before, such as the program with Benoit that was shitcanned twice.

 

This is all wishful thinking though, as Austin might just feel he should come back for one last major run on top, and if thats the case, I'd rather see him staying in Texas.

[Guest creativename]

I expect Austin to be back by the Rumble (he was the first to officially enter it, after all ). And if not then, he'll almost definitely be back in time for Mania.

 

I have mixed feelings on his return though. I must admit that I HATED Austin when he was around. I was ecstatic when I heard he wouldn't be on my TV anymore, because Raw was always the 3:16 show. I can't bring myself to hate him so much anymore though...maybe it's just because absence makes the heart grow fonder.

 

But a part of me also has the hope that he can severely curtail HHH's politics. It a case of the lesser of two evils, and as someone mentioned beore, Austin held people down and "protected his spot"™ but there were still stars made during his tenure. I would say that Austin=glass ceiling, whereas HHH=conrete ceiling. And that Austin+HHH would actually be less of a ceiling than HHH by himself.

 

Plus, if I were running the company, I would most certainly bring him back, no matter how much I couldn't stand him. They're still paying him after all, and he remains a top draw. He is one quick fix that would, in fact, improve revenues over the long-term. So from a business perspective I would say WWE would be stupid to not bring him back.

 

And of course, it would be something to mark out for. WWE gives us mark out moments rarely enough these days; I'll take what I can get.

[Guest RedJed]

For all the politicing Austin apparently did, there is one thing he did right.......vocally protested to management about wrestlers being involved in booking meetings, i.e. HHH. When he was still around earlier this year, HHH was out of those meetings.

[Guest creativename]

Austin does win most of the time, but usually his opponent doesn't come out of the match looking useless.

See nWo, The.

 

Ausitn seriously ruined that whole angle. Yes, it's true the guy he didn't want to job to was out of the company in a few months anyway. But that doesn't mean he should have singlehandedly destroyed the most famous stable of all time. After losing both their matches at Mania, including one that was basically a handicap match, they looked ridiculous and lost all credibility.

 

The nWo was yet another guaranteed money angle that the WWE ruined for themselves, and Austin played a big role in that.

 

And the Booker T lumberjack match squash was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. Not even HHH ever buried somebody so goddamned blatantly. I'm shocked that the Book actually managed to get heat and become a contender again after that; it did take him a while, though.

 

How many times did Austin job in 2002 before he left? I can't recall a single job in his last couple of months (and of course the Jericho one doesn't count, jobbing via nWo uber-interference is barely jobbing; it did nothing for Jericho).

 

Austin was also pissed because he didn't main event Mania. Well, he can't main event every f*cking year. All draws become stale after a while. His feud got as much TV time as Rock/Hogan and HHH/Jericho anyway.

 

And as for him coming back as a heel...well, I don't see how that could possibly work. He'll get one of the greatest pop of all time when he returns, and the fans just won't be able to help cheering him. If he's made a heel, he'll out pop his opponent anyway, which would just make them look ridiculous. I'd say he'd even easily out-pop Hogan. Hogan out-popped Rock, but then, Rock's opponent is always the one cheered in face vs. face matches (hell, even tweener Jericho and rookie heel Lesnar got cheered against him!). Fans just won't root against Austin, even with the walking out/wife-beating stuff. Lord knows how many marks think that's all a work, anyway.

 

Also, if he's back in time, I'm pretty sure Austin will win the Rumble...again...and then win the title at Mania to complete his "big comeback". I would rather someone like RVD, Jericho, Angle, or even Edge win it, because that would actually be better for the company in the long run.

 

I'd love to see Brock vs. Austin, face vs. face, non-title co-main event at Mania actually. But please, for the love of god, no Austin vs. owner feuds...think of the children!!!

[Guest bravesfan]

It a case of the lesser of two evils, and as someone mentioned beore, Austin held people down and "protected his spot"™ but there were still stars made during his tenure.

Who made THOSE stars? I only remember 2 men elevating the Angles, Jerichos, Benoits and RVDs during the last few years, and those two were Steve Austin and the Rock.

 

Don't give me the Undertaker, or Kane, or god forbid Triple H. The Rock made a conscious effort to elevate Jericho, Brock and Kurt Angle when he had the chance. Steve Austin made Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit into believable stars who could "carry the ball", yet we "reward" him with Scott Hall, Bradshaw, TBS and Kevin Nash as his workers? While a bloated no-selling cripple takes precedent over guys that Austin and Rock elevated?

 

Who's to blame here?!?

 

I would say that Austin=glass ceiling, whereas HHH=conrete ceiling.  And that Austin+HHH would actually be less of a ceiling than HHH by himself.

 

Austin never held a glass ceiling over anybody in the last 2 years. He jobbed when it was appropriate. Name one instance where the wrong man went over in any of his feuds; hell, Trips has done it 3 times in the last 3 months.

 

Plus, if I were running the company, I would most certainly bring him back, no matter how much I couldn't stand him.

 

Vince has to bring him back, no question. Austin/Bradshaw versus TBS/X-Pac were drawing 4.0's, while RVD/HHH/HBK/Y2J/Booker/Kane is drawing 3.1's? You think Bradshaw and the nWo-lite was the attraction in the April-May feuds?

 

They're still paying him after all, and he remains a top draw.  He is one quick fix that would, in fact, improve revenues over the long-term.

 

Booking and writing problems are all that hold the WWE back from regaining their successful run of 1998-2000. You get Austin back, put him in credible feuds with Trips, Y2J and Brock, have him keep his character while grooming the future ME'ers, put some thought into your writing plans and you get your major fanbase back.

 

And of course, it would be something to mark out for.  WWE gives us mark out moments rarely enough these days; I'll take what I can get.

 

Rock/Hogan at RAW and Wrestlemania 18 was my last mark-out moment, BTW.

[Guest bob_barron]

I'd welcome Austin back but I want to see him put over Booker T clean in the middle of the ring.

[Guest creativename]

It a case of the lesser of two evils, and as someone mentioned beore, Austin held people down and "protected his spot"™ but there were still stars made during his tenure.

Who made THOSE stars? I only remember 2 men elevating the Angles, Jerichos, Benoits and RVDs during the last few years, and those two were Steve Austin and the Rock.

 

Don't give me the Undertaker, or Kane, or god forbid Triple H. The Rock made a conscious effort to elevate Jericho, Brock and Kurt Angle when he had the chance. Steve Austin made Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit into believable stars who could "carry the ball", yet we "reward" him with Scott Hall, Bradshaw, TBS and Kevin Nash as his workers? While a bloated no-selling cripple takes precedent over guys that Austin and Rock elevated?

 

Who's to blame here?!?

Now you know damn well that nobody is going to say that Taker or HHH made stars, ffs, so no need to be condesending about that.

 

However I would say the Rock was a lot more responsible for any star-making than Austin. And it's mostly Austin '02 that concerns me. He made all his opponents look 2nd rate (the Booker T example stands out in everyone's memory, but there were others as well) and his matches were excruciatingly predictable (both in terms of actual wrestling as well as outcomes). What fun is it watching a show dominated by an invincible babyface who always gets the last laugh (and often the only laughs)?

 

Oh, I just remembered that Austin did job to Taker to further the feud with Flair. So that's one more job he did towards the end. But seriously, he really was playing the Superman role for a while there at the end. I just don't want to see that anymore...and seeing that WWE probably won't be able to satisfy Austin by putting him in actual interesting storylines, they might decide to make do with putting him over everbody this side Andre. It might make Austin fans happy for a little while, but that's just not want I want to see...and more importantly, it's not good for business, either.

[Guest bravesfan]

Austin seriously ruined that whole angle. Yes, it's true the guy he didn't want to job to was out of the company in a few months anyway. But that doesn't mean he should have singlehandedly destroyed the most famous stable of all time. After losing both their matches at Mania, including one that was basically a handicap match, they looked ridiculous and lost all credibility.

 

SO....having Hall show up drunk to several events, INCLUDING Wrestlemania, should not be accounted for? Hogan forced face turn at WM 18, basically killing the stable's chances of succeeding? X-Pac as the new 3rd member? Putting TBS in the stable? Putting Booker T in the stable? Flair helping out the stable for no particular reason, yet trying to remain face? Shawn Michaels cutting 15 minute promos with no real point? Nash's unfortunate injury when the nWo was picking up steam again?

 

Screw that, Austin beat Scott Hall in a singles match. DAMN HIM TO HELL, I SAY!

 

The nWo was yet another guaranteed money angle that the WWE ruined for themselves, and Austin played a big role in that.

 

The nWo was a big-money angle...3 YEARS AGO! There's no way it would've sustained past August, no matter how great the booking was. What, have Nash, X-Pac, TBS, HBK and HHH run the show, while guys like Batista, Cena and Orton play B-Teamers to these "stars"?

 

YOU SAY Austin and others should've elevated new talent, yet you seem to criticize how the nWo, a bunch of unmotivated old hacks clogging up the picture, were treated.

 

And the Booker T lumberjack match squash was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. Not even HHH ever buried somebody so goddamned blatantly. I'm shocked that the Book actually managed to get heat and become a contender again after that; it did take him a while, though.

 

There is NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE that should be to blame for this but Brian Gerwitz and Vince McMahon. Not Steve Austin, not Booker T, nor anyone from the locker room. Putting a mega-face into a mega-heel stable, yet keeping him face: how did they expect this angle to work?

 

How many times did Austin job in 2002 before he left? I can't recall a single job in his last couple of months (and of course the Jericho one doesn't count, jobbing via nWo uber-interference is barely jobbing; it did nothing for Jericho).

 

In PPV appearances...

 

--Allowed Mr. Perfect to throw him out at the Rumble.

--Lost to Jericho (albeit, not cleanly) at NWO.

--Beat Scott Hall.

--Lost to Undertaker.

--Beat TBS and Flair.

 

I can't recall any RAW-brand matches besides the handicap and 6-man with the nWo, which I believe Austin's side lost on both occasions. Did not have TNN until February, so I don't know how Angle/Austin in January ended, or if Hennig/Austin ever tangled.

 

Austin suffered his worst beating from Y2J during their build-up to NWO, yet Stone Cold never once-upped him in the days leading up to the PPV. Jericho gave Austin a beer-bath, while flipping him the birds and celebrating mid-ring. Who has been able to do that to Austin in the last 2 years? That speaks volumes about how much both cared about making the angle work, albeit overshadowed by the nWo's return.

 

On a side note, even though both Rock and Austin jobbed TWICE to Jericho in a period of 2 months, it didn't matter because he was jobbed out to Cripple H and his bulldog.

 

Austin was also pissed because he didn't main event Mania. Well, he can't main event every f*cking year. His feud got as much TV time as Rock/Hogan and HHH/Jericho anyway.

 

Wasn't Wrestlemania advertised as a Triple Main Event? May be wrong about that, but considering the circumstances, Austin was rightfully pissed at how the booking turned out. There is no reason to defend Austin on walking out after Wrestlemania, though. Both Austin and Vince have to learn how to resolve their issues, before a character is humiliated on-air (Austin's "benching", "Karaoke Night", angle with Eddy lusting over his wife, Austin's "web-gun o' doom", various people turning on him, just to mention a few.)

 

All draws become stale after a while.

 

But Steve Austin main-eventing at Wrestlemania is still a red-hot draw. Austin's matches in his last 4 visits (vs. Bret, HBK, Rock and Rock) were all top-notch affairs, with 3 of those matches being considered as MOTY's.

 

And as for him coming back as a heel...well, I don't see how that could possibly work. He'll get one of the greatest pops of all time when he returns, and the fans just won't be able to help cheering him. If he's made a heel, he'll out pop his opponent anyway, which would just make them look ridiculous.

 

You're absolutely right, they'll have to put a MEGA-FACE against him, which the WWE does not have. No fan would choose Trips or Booker over him, and with his history with Y2J and Benoit, it may not work either. Their only shot is with Brock or Angle, mayyybe RVD. The return of the Rock (the ultimate choice) is way too far off to settle their feud once-and-for-all.

 

Also, if he's back in time, I'm pretty sure Austin will win the Rumble...again...and then win the title at Mania to complete his "big comeback".

 

I'm pretty sure HHH will repeat this year, then unify the titles at Wrestlemania by beating Brock clean, then he will part the Pacific Ocean on his way to take the Triple Crown from Tenryu, Mutoh, Kawada or godforbid Goldberg (whoever's got it then)

 

OK, everything up until the Pacific Ocean idea is my prediction.

 

 

I would rather someone like RVD, Jericho, Angle, or even Edge win it, because that would actually be better for the company in the long run.

 

Yes, we all would like that, but we'll get a Triple H reign shoved down our throats instead.

 

I'd love to see Brock vs. Austin, face vs. face, non-title co-main event at Mania actually. But please, for the love of god, no Austin vs. owner feuds...think of the children!!!

 

Pretty soon, HHH/Bischoff will start up, then conclude with Bischoff/Stephanie/HHH versus Vince/Shane to end the split once more.

[Guest bravesfan]

Now you know damn well that nobody is going to say that Taker or HHH made stars, ffs, so no need to be condesending about that.

 

Sorry, didn't mean for it to come off like that. I just attempted to show that the only 2 workers elevating the new main-event talent, were Rock and Steve Austin.

 

HHH and UT did jobs for NOBODY below them, so there's no mystery as to how Y2J, Benoit and Angle become believeable threats in 2001.

 

However I would say the Rock was a lot more responsible for any star-making than Austin.

 

True. Thing is, Rock was always booked to keep his heat, whether it be condescending promo, opponent's humiliation, or a simple clean win.

 

Austin, in the last year, was made to look like a paranoid buffoon. As a heel, I understand that. As a face though, there's no reason why the writers decided to have Austin ditch the "DTA" gimmick and turn into a trusting character who was turned on by everyone in the company. Fans had a hard time understanding why Austin, all of a sudden, decided to trust characters like Flair, TBS or Taker.

 

And it's mostly Austin '02 that concerns me. He made all his opponents look 2nd rate (the Booker T example stands out in everyone's memory, but there were others as well) and his matches were excruciatingly predictable (both in terms of actual wrestling as well as outcomes).

 

Actual wrestling, no argument. It seems that most wrestlers these days (exception being Smackdown Six) have a hard time putting together a match that most fans can't see coming a mile away.

 

The predictibility of his outcomes have nothing to do with the wrestlers themselves; the writers and agents have made confusing decisions in wins/losses this year.

 

What fun is it watching a show dominated by an invincible babyface who always gets the last laugh (and often the only laughs)?

 

The last 8 weeks of his tenure, had the nWo and Ric Flair one-upping Austin each and every Monday night. Both sides of the heel/face uber-dominance issue are banal and boring to watch; give me a balance (ala Austin/McMahon) and then it'll become exciting again.

 

Oh, I just remembered that Austin did job to Taker to further the feud with Flair. So that's one more job he did towards the end. But seriously, he really was playing the Superman role for a while there at the end. I just don't want to see that anymore...

 

Yet, we're seeing it NOW with Triple H. In all honesty, I really want Austin back, just to combat the backstage politicking that Trips is using.

 

 

...and seeing that WWE probably won't be able to satisfy Austin by putting him in actual interesting storylines, they might decide to make do with putting him over everbody this side Andre.

 

They'll be able to satisfy Austin by just giving him a GOOD storyline, stick to the plan and run with it. I have yet to see an engrossing storyline this year, with the exception being the beginnings of the nWo/WWF angle. Austin seemed elated with being one-upped by the McMahons, Bret, Foley, Rock, Hunter and Undertaker constantly, as long as it furthered a storyline.