The Thing About Ring Of Honor

[Guest thetrendsetter]

I don't mean to sound insulting here, But I don't understand the reasoning behind Ring Of Honor....

 

Or, the "Code Of Honor"...

 

The promotion is just the same as any other big name indy promotion. Alot of the core wrestlers wrestle for the same promotions.

 

Here's what I don't get...

 

Low-Ki: Chop, Chop Chop Chop... KICK IN FACE...

 

AJ STYLES: Good Match!!!

 

It doesn't make sense... They'd kill each other anywheres else...

 

Original Yes. Good. Eh...

 

What are other people's opinions on the promotion?

[Guest converge241]

i dont get what youre saying....

please expand on chop, chop kick in face and the AJ saying good match?

 

my problems are:

the code goes by the wayside too much..either enforce it or just get rid of it

 

putting the belt on Xaiver to elevate him..the belts too new to be used to do this... thats what a secondary belt is for.. Xaiver's not terrible but he has no heat and the whole "he can get heat because he doesnt deserve the belt" only work if its an established or secondary belt.. and you kind of have to hate him already..hes just so..there

 

they really need to have a screen showing various ROH moments and vignettes at each house show.. a lot of fans are just locals who have no clue about the face/heel definitions or the storylines

 

those are my only problems.

i love the company

[Guest Ace309]

I'll hazard a guess.

 

Ring of Honor is revered above other indy feds for two reasons, imho. The first is that, yes, it uses stars that work every other indy, but it uses ALL of them, CONSISTENTLY. Another indy might have American Dragon or Christopher Daniels working the main event, but it won't have both of them, much less Low Ki, the SAT, Samoa Joe and AJ Styles on the same card. (A corollary to this is that these particular indy stars are all smark darlings, and so any show with them on it gets attention.) This results in not only well-known guys who can carry a broomstick to a *** match, but said well-known guys working WITH each other to make excellent wrestling matches which are coincidentally so stiff that they actually reach through your TV screen and slap you. I'm missing two teeth from my first viewing of Ki vs. Dragon.

 

The second is, well, money. Rob Feinstein, that fun athletic guy, has the ability to promote and make available tapes and DVDs of said great wrestling, and so it's easy for us to get into.

 

JMHO, of course.

[Guest goodhelmet]

i think trendsetter's main beef seems to be with styles and low-ki. for my money's worth, these are two of the most innovative wrestlers out there. when i hear their names in a matchlist, i take notice.

 

as for the promotion itself, ROH has sustained my love of wrestling when wwe and aj have tried to destroy it. while some of the booking can be questionable, and the tag division sucks nuts, the promotion has put on some of the most consistently good shows this year, indy or major league. i would much rather see guys like styles, daniels, ki, am. dragon and morgan tear it up month after month than watch the crap fed to us by mutoh and mcmahon.

 

as for the code of honor, i liked the idea at first but when the fed doesn't adhere to its own stips then you have problems. i think ace309's suggestions would definitely help the product and even expand its fanbase.

 

in summary, for your money's worth and mine, ROH is the best fed out there right now and i don't mind saying it.

[Chunk 0]

as for the code of honor, i liked the idea at first but when the fed doesn't adhere to its own stips then you have problems. i think ace309's suggestions would definitely help the product and even expand its fanbase.

Ive only seen the first half of ROH #1, but allreayd I can see that that Stip means nothing.

 

I think, in theory, it could work, but why they dont stick to it is anyones guess.

 

I mean, I hear about the Stip, in the 20 minutes promo before the show. (No crap, no gimmicks, no storylines, just wrestling for the sake of wrestling). And then the first workers I see enter the ring are the Christopher Street Connection.

 

I let that one slide, because I figure that we might be just seeing a match that symbolises the death of Sports entertainment (i.e. with CSC getting completely squashed).

 

And then I see some "extreme" ref get beat up and cut a promo telling us his life story.

 

Still, I can allready say that im a huge ROH fan. Red/Jay Briscoe was amazing, and so was the Mikey Whipreck student match.

 

ChUnK!

[Guest goodhelmet]

dude, those matches are nothing compared to the real meat of ROH.. matches involving low ki, daniels and am. dragon. in fact, the red-briscoe match is sub-par compared to many of the other ROH matches. if you weren't using pal format, i'd open the door to some really great roh matches.

[Chunk 0]

dude, those matches are nothing compared to the real meat of ROH.. matches involving low ki, daniels and am. dragon. in fact, the red-briscoe match is sub-par compared to many of the other ROH matches. if you weren't using pal format, i'd open the door to some really great roh matches.

Grrr, damn you PAL format.

 

I thought they were pretty good matches none the less though.

 

I am frantically trading at the moment for some more ROH shows, but im also rapidly becoming a NWA:TNA addcikt aswell, and my small wallet can't take it.

 

 

ChUnK!

[Guest goodhelmet]

hey chunk, since you are in the uk, do you have access to american vcr's? i know my good friend, jay spree has the capability. the small investment in an american format vcr might allow you to get more tapes and more trades than you would normally receive.

[Chunk 0]

hey chunk, since you are in the uk, do you have access to american vcr's? i know my good friend, jay spree has the capability. the small investment in an american format vcr might allow you to get more tapes and more trades than you would normally receive.

Hmmm, funny you should say that.

 

Ive just bought a tape from a person in Canada (in NTSC format). Because I have a feeling that my new VCR is NTSC compatible. I bought the tape (which should be here in the next week or so) partly to test if I can play NTSC format tapes.

 

Im coming to the USA next year for a holiday, and I wanted to pick up some tapes while im over there. So, your probably right, it woul dbe a good idea for me to invest in a vcr.

 

Do you know:

 

a) where i can buy an american vcr over the net, that will last me a while but not cost a fortune. Also, i need it to be deliverable to the uk.

 

b) If i hook an american vcr up to a uk one (via scart) would i be able to copy from PAL to NTSC?

 

cheers for anyhelp,

 

ChUnK!

[Guest goodhelmet]

in reference to both of your questions, i have no clue. i just know i made jay spree a comp in ntsc format, sent it to the uk and he had no problems watching it. i think with a pal format conversion, you lose a lot of quality, as noticed by all of the subpar copies of the ppv version of 'one night only'

[Chunk 0]

in reference to both of your questions, i have no clue. i just know i made jay spree a comp in ntsc format, sent it to the uk and he had no problems watching it. i think with a pal format conversion, you lose a lot of quality, as noticed by all of the subpar copies of the ppv version of 'one night only'

Hmm, that could also be why my tna tapes arent really brilliant quality.

 

As soon as i get that NTSC tape, ill try it in my vcr and let you know if it works.

 

In the mean time, if anyone else knows where i can get a cheap but reliable american vcr (that can be delivered to the uk) then please let me know.

 

Thanks,

 

ChUnK!

[Guest thetrendsetter]

i think trendsetter's main beef seems to be with styles and low-ki. for my money's worth, these are two of the most innovative wrestlers out there. when i hear their names in a matchlist, i take notice.

 

as for the promotion itself, ROH has sustained my love of wrestling when wwe and aj have tried to destroy it. while some of the booking can be questionable, and the tag division sucks nuts, the promotion has put on some of the most consistently good shows this year, indy or major league. i would much rather see guys like styles, daniels, ki, am. dragon and morgan tear it up month after month than watch the crap fed to us by mutoh and mcmahon.

 

as for the code of honor, i liked the idea at first but when the fed doesn't adhere to its own stips then you have problems. i think ace309's suggestions would definitely help the product and even expand its fanbase.

 

in summary, for your money's worth and mine, ROH is the best fed out there right now and i don't mind saying it.

I don't know... It seems stupid from a Mark sense, that they would act all professional, and shake hands in ROH, then turn on each other with chairs the next week on a TNA PPV.

 

Indy Wrestling in general at this point is great, it's starting to get better and better.

 

For the record, I'm a huge Styles fan, I just find it stupid that they have this sacred "Code Of Honor"... sounds like Japan "lite" to me...

 

Nothing against people enjoying it though...

[Guest converge241]

I see what youre saying there about the lack of continuity between promotions..its very aggravatting to the process of suspending your disbelief

[Guest Youth N Asia]

ROH

 

Sure overall the shows are good...but little things bother me.

 

in the beginning they promised no blood and whatnot...yet for the last batch of shows they've booked Abby...they didn't take long to back out of their word on that.

 

I'd tired of hearing about how they're the #1 indy and all...they have been around for 9 months...and RF has been known to burn a bridge or two. So let's see how they're doing a year from now before I call they the top company.

 

And doesn't booking spot monkeys like Divine Storm, Red, and the SAT go against all the crap they're trying to be?

 

ROH contracts? Come on now, this is the indies, we all know no one is under contract, drop the gimmick.

 

And finally...American Dragon vs Low Ki w/Shammy has the ref...has anyone seen this match? I know Rob think's he's booking very good Japan like matches...but that was the most boring match I've seen in a long long time. Seems like ROH's whole deal is "This is what you really want to see", the dead crowd for the first 20 minutes of the match should have tipped them off.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like psychology and all...but when you put on a 40 minute match of all submission moves it's just going to be boring.

 

Other then listed...I like the shows.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

And finally...American Dragon vs Low Ki w/Shammy has the ref...has anyone seen this match? I know Rob think's he's booking very good Japan like matches...but that was the most boring match I've seen in a long long time. Seems like ROH's whole deal is "This is what you really want to see", the dead crowd for the first 20 minutes of the match should have tipped them off.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like psychology and all...but when you put on a 40 minute match of all submission moves it's just going to be boring.

I think that's a little harsh, but you are right that the submission work in that match is a problem. I found that it really didn't go anywhere or lead to anything in the context of the match. The announcers tried to sell some psychology around Dragon's eye cut and his neck area, but I just didn't buy it. It seems superfluous to me to have a twenty minute submission opening on the mat if you're going to be finishing the match with highspots like second rope Ki Krushers. Its an entertaining match despite this, but I feel that if they stuck to a slightly more structured match then those two guys could produce a real classic.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

The 3/30/02 Dragon v Ki match was boring?

 

Ha!

 

Just because they actually went out and wrestled doesn't = boring.

 

Tim

[Guest Ace309]

Okay, I'm an idiot.

 

I didn't understand this bit

 

Here's what I don't get...

 

Low-Ki: Chop, Chop Chop Chop... KICK IN FACE...

 

AJ STYLES: Good Match!!!

when I made my post this morning, which is why I didn't respond. Seems like it went over a few other people's heads as well, judging by the comments.

 

The handshake at the end isn't something invented by ROH. Yes, Ki just kicked the everloving shit out of Styles, but it's only sportsmanlike to shake hands after a match that was contested AS a match rather than as a fight. They don't do it as much in the pros, but after most amateur athletic contests, there are mandatory handshakes for the competitors and coaches, or the analogous bowing in judo and other martial arts. Hell, refusing the handshake in amateur wrestling will penalize your team at best, get you ejected at worst.

 

... which is actually one of the things I like about ROH. They present it, more or less, as a real sport. Sure, some of the guys are inexcusably spotty, but it's presented as if it were a competition rather than an exhibition of talent. Why do they shake hands after they just destroyed each other? Because, well, they weren't fighting, they were competing, and anyone who's ever competed can understand that.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

The 3/30/02 Dragon v Ki match was boring?

 

Ha!

 

Just because they actually went out and wrestled doesn't = boring.

 

Tim

Dude, you know your wrestling, so explain a few things to me. I personally didn't find the mat stuff in that match boring, just a little pointless. How did it build to create the match as a whole? It just seemed to me to be two matches in one, first the submission stuff on the mat and then their more regular stuff for the second half. Thing is, I couldn't see anything that connected the two. Ki's leg selling was a bit off as well, as he kept alternating his stronger leg so in the end I couldn't remember what leg Dragon had actually attacked. And come on now, Second Rope Ki Krusher not deciding it? That's misuse of head-dropping IMO, although I thought the actual finish with Dragon killing Ki with a suplex before getting the Cattle Mutilation as sweet.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Ki/Dragon is far from a classic. It doesn't hold a candle to MIsawa v Kawada, Hokuto v Kandori, Tamura v Kohsaka, Tamura v Han, etc. But the match does a good job of building a match of two equal comeptitors, building from the mat.

 

It most cases of Juniors matches, I hate the pointless mat work that starts the matches. In the 3/30 match, I found the mat work to lead to the latter portion of the match. It was kind of like how the 3/16/96 Rey v Juve Tijuana match builds off the mat into a match.

 

As far as the selling, I thought it was more aimed at exhaustion rather than the "body part" work which is really cliche these days.

 

I have it rated at ****1/4 and it is currently my MOTY. I haven't seen anything elsewhere that really does as good of a job as this match does. And that comes from someone who dislikes Lo Ki for the most part.

 

Tim, also noting that Dragon carried Ki through the mat work.

[Guest J*ingus]

I liked the match as well, but I did have an interesting experience watching it one time. I showed it to a veteran wrestler who'd spent a lot of time in Memphis and similar territories, and he liked a lot of the work, but didn't get the psychology. Like when Dragon would roll out of the ring, lay down for a while, and then finally climb back in, while Ki just stood there and let him. He was saying stuff like, "Fuck, come on, get on him! Don't just let him get his strength back." I tried to explain the whole sportsmanship "honor" thing they were trying to present, and the fact that they were two babyfaces, but he still thought they weren't nearly mean enough to each other until way later in the match. I still love the match, but I can see his point.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Hokuto v Kandori is mean and full of hate. Dragon v Ki wasn't suppose to be full of that at all. So the guy not getting the psychology is correct because there was no "hate" psych.

 

That said, attacks while coming back into the ring would make sense in the perspective that you want to keep your opponent wore down.

 

But this match was about who was better. Who could outlast the other and finally get that hold on that would win the match. What I would take from that is both wanted to play it as fiar as possible, straight down the middle so the winner was a winner and the loser lost fair and square.

 

Tim

[Guest Youth N Asia]

The 3/30/02 Dragon v Ki match was boring?

 

Ha!

 

Just because they actually went out and wrestled doesn't = boring.

 

Tim

No, I don't have a problem with actual wrestling...but when they worked body parts for 20 minutes, then had them go through high spot after high spots...what was the point of all the submission. I can watch good wrestling, but it has to keep my interest...8 minute submission, reversal, 5 minute submission...didn't do much for me.

 

Maybe boring wasn't the best word...but it was far from entertaining. I can watch two submission experts and be on the edge of my seat...this was not the case for Dragon/Ki, they tried too hard to put on a match they couldn't pull off.

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

but when they worked body parts for 20 minutes, then had them go through high spot after high spots...what was the point of all the submission.

 

Actually, I find that matches that go like that (Mostly Japanese Juniours matches and such) tend to make sense in that respect.

 

What I mean is, it'd make no sense for Ki to just grab Dragon and slap him in a Ki Krusher right off the bat - Of course Dragon's gonna counter.

 

But after 20 minutes or so of mat work, such things become more believable. Both men get tired and sore - their chances of countering moves, or in the case of juniours matches, moving out of the way, decreases.

 

But hey, I loved that match. I mark for good mat work, and I found their mat work to be very good.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

And who would these submission experts be that keep you on the edge of your seat?

 

Tim

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Submission Expert was a bad choice of words...cause really Low Ki or Dragon doesn't even fall into that. Anyone that does a submission is a "submission expert"

 

You ever see Malenko/Gurrero from ECW. They worked heavy submission matches and they were classics. And fun to watch.

 

The Bret vs Owen matches were great, they'd work a body part over thoughout the match...and it was entertaining.

 

Dragon/Ki just didn't do it for me. I like both workers, but I thought they were trying to hard on that one.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

The Malenko/Guerrero ECW series sucked. It was nothing more than a bunch of masturbatory matches to satisfy the ECW fan base. Want submission stuff, watch Volk Han and Kiyoshi Tamura.

 

Tim

[Guest Youth N Asia]

The Malenko/Guerrero ECW series sucked. It was nothing more than a bunch of masturbatory matches to satisfy the ECW fan base.

You praise Dragon/Ki while bashing Malenko/Guerrero...

 

I'm now out of this thread. Best wishes.