Dave Meltzer On Raw

[Guest BoboBrazil]

I know that most people have gotten not only frustrated with Raw, but tired of complaining about Raw. It literally boggles my mind how people with such little understanding of the basics of pro wrestling can be putting together these shows that go nowhere and build very little. It isn't HHH going over last night, or necessarily who wins and loses that's the problem (well, that's a problem, too). It's how the match was laid out. The decision was made to do HHH vs. Shawn Michaels at Armageddon, presumably with HHH going over for the title. So what was the purpose of Michaels' win? A momentary pop in MSG that was over 30 seconds into his interview on Raw the next night when the people realized they put the belt on a guy who admits himself he's not what he once was. Everyone can see it, but when he's got the belt, that isn't the time to be telling people that. While putting the belt on him was a bad idea, it was made worse than it was done for a confetti celebration that was more important than having the title on house shows (well, we already know they don't care about those, and guess what, if they don't, they've made it so nobody else does either). But in a time when business is down, it's time to make new stars and more important, to create future match-ups. The problem with the brand extension at this point is with no true upward mobility, all it has done is more than halved the number of potential top match-ups among a decreasing number of top guys that have largely all faced each other to death. The idea of Michaels losing to someone, whether it be Van Dam or Booker T, and having HHH chase them, while probably not box office either, is at least something new.

 

The idea last night should have been HHH going over. There is no problem with him going over Van Dam in a manner that you want to see them again. He should have won if he's in the PPV main event. But what happens next? If HHH goes babyface, as is being pushed as a strong idea, who does he face? Chris Jericho? RVD as a heel? Kane as a heel? Ric Flair as a heel? There's nothing there. If he stays heel, who does he face? Michaels again? Probably Scott Steiner next, but now you're talking about a battle to see who gets hurt first with those two as the main program.

 

Anyway, so we knew all that going in. But watching it unfold. First, Michaels should not have been ref. If they were going to have HHH go over, it should have been Flair as a ref, or maybe even Jericho, Batista or Sean Morley to get a new top heel into the mix that Van Dam can marry off with, and Michaels at ringside saying he's there to make sure Flair (or whomever else) doesn't screw Van Dam. And then the heel ref does what heels refs do, favor the heel and count slow to save his title. Michaels gets involved. In all that, Van Dam can get his visionary falls, screwed by Flair for a finish, and clean the ring with Michaels afterwards. HHH gets his title match, and the announcers can play up that HHH is afraid of Van Dam, who both injured him (might as well use the storylines real life hands you, it worked for Shamrock and Ortiz) and should have beaten him. They have an opening for a program. Granted, it won't draw either, and even if they want to rush to Steiner (which I do recommend by the way), at least Van Dam came out without being buried so badly. I'm not saying it's perfect and I don't really like it much either but I'm just trying to come up with a smarter match within their already booked parameters. And it sure beats the stupidity of last night of a guy being overly buried in a company that theoretically is using a failed brand extension as a way to create new headliners.

 

Special ref continually screws with the heel, blatantly. Van Dam is so weak as an opponent that even with the help of a biased ref, he can't get the job done. There is nothing more that's a kiss of death to babyfaces (remember the elimination match on Nitro with the No Limit Soldiers vs. West Texas Rednecks where Curt Hennig stood up to four faces who had bad gimmicks and the bookers couldn't understand why the fans were cheering him). And most important, where was he at the finish. Asleep in the ring as another guy proven for the 35th time that the fans who chant his name are wasting their time because he's not portrayed in the league with the top guys on the show.

 

wrestlingobserver.com

[Guest DeputyHawk]

there's a problem with the booking on raw? you know, now that i think about it, he might ... he might be onto something!

[Guest LaParkaMarka]

I wish they'd listen to people like Meltzer. But hey, what could he possibly know about the business, right?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

He is nothing but a bitter mark who writes things just for to sell his newsletter

 

"Thanks HHH, I needed that. Now, what were you saying about burying RVD?"

 

No Problem Vince, I think RVD should put over Batista - that kid has real value.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

" And most important, where was he at the finish. Asleep in the ring as another guy proven for the 35th time that the fans who chant his name are wasting their time because he's not portrayed in the league with the top guys on the show"

 

Amen.

 

Screw Vince.

[Guest DJ Jeff]

He pretty much hit the nail on the head with that.

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

You mean Dave has a better idea how they 'could have' booked the match, after it's been done? Go Figure.

 

Really, It's fucking amazing that we on this board pitch idea's all the time that would work, or at least, could be worth a try. Or, we even try to make sense of where the WWE is going and they fuck it all up.

 

It's not like we're saying Stop the Promotion dead, and have a re-start. Just build new friggen stars, try new things, and see what works and what doesn't.

 

What the Hell is so hard to understand?

[Guest Mole]

Yes, Vince is a retarted retard.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Making new stars means you have to have them go over your current stars...

 

Can't have that... Oh no... Can't have that.

[Guest EricMM]

It's just surprising that he is still keeping all his eggs in one basket. I dunno what they're going to keep blaming for the ratings decline.

 

I mean, at this point, it's either HHH or fate...

 

They'll always go with fate. They insist it's just part of the business, instead of seeing that there's nothing cool about HHH anymore. He doesn't cut a good promo, and he doesn't tell a good story, and he doesn't make ANYONE go ooo.

 

My point is this: HHH on his best day doesn't have half the charisma of a SCSA stumbling across the ring to give someone the double eagles, or Rock asking if the people smell what the rock is cooking. He never has. He never will. After about 4 years of nothing but the game, people get tired. Even SCSA wasn't in the spotlight that long, and he shared it with the rock when the time came. HHH hasn't given anyone the opportunities he had in spades. If not RVD, then certainly Jericho was a bonafide star in the making. The fact that he didn't go over HHH years ago in some sort of high profile title match, and then go over him again, verbally and physically speaks volumes for WWE's priorities.

 

I wouldn't even care if he just toned it down. HHH would have a part in all of our hearts if he was just like ... anyone else. If he was as high profile as Booker T no one would complain. I don't think that's too unreasonable.

 

What is this WCW? I should just put that in my sig...

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Does the WWF even KNOW why they are pushing HHH so hard as a heel? Do they plan on having Edge go over him, or Angle, or RVD, or Booker T? Cause I seriously don't know why they are putting the time and effort in making him an uber-heel esp. when it's not working.

[Guest EricMM]

They don't expect anyone to go over him, they expect HHH to be the next Hogan I suppose.

[Guest Daddy X]

I remember in the days when a heel was built up just as a way to push a face into superstardom. I mean seriously WWE then WWF used to be good at this, or at least good at it to me. The point it to take someone and build them up as a huge heel and even put the belt on them. They plow through the easy competition and get wins (not all of them fair) over the upper midcarders and really get the fans against them. You take a mid to high mid card face and you really start building him up a lot to eventually go against the monster heel. He goes over the heel and a new star is born. We have seen is so many times before and it has worked so many times before. Why change a can't lose formula? It seems HHH is just this ultra heel, but there is nobody being built up to go over him. It looked like it would be RVD (Not my personal preference but at least its something new) but week and week out HHH continues to stay at the top with nothing pointing towards change. You build up these "uber-heels" because you have something special down the line and something that will change the company direction. I honestly don't see them going anywhere with this.

[B. Brian Brunzell 0]

Yes, Vince is a retarted retard.

That was the most intelligent thing typed all day.

[Guest buffybeast]

I remember in the days when a heel was built up just as a way to push a face into superstardom. I mean seriously WWE then WWF used to be good at this, or at least good at it to me. The point it to take someone and build them up as a huge heel and even put the belt on them. They plow through the easy competition and get wins (not all of them fair) over the upper midcarders and really get the fans against them. You take a mid to high mid card face and you really start building him up a lot to eventually go against the monster heel. He goes over the heel and a new star is born. We have seen is so many times before and it has worked so many times before. Why change a can't lose formula?

This statement reminds me of the old Ric Flair character. When Ric was working as the dastardly heel, how many times did he put someone over or do the job? Quite a bit. And no, Flair was not always selfless in his jobs. But at least he did them. And jobbing did not effect his standing with the fans in the least.

 

Nowadays if someone jobs he must win the rematch so he can get his heat back. This just doesn't make sense much of the time.

[Guest dreamer420]

It's the evolution of the sport though. You will find the same stuff going on in every fed out there.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I know that most people have gotten not only frustrated with Raw, but tired of complaining about Raw.

That includes myself. It's become far too much with the constant insanity every week, so I just stopped caring, a Booker T or Rob Van Dam be damned (no pun intended).

 

I did catch the end of HHH/RVD from last night. I've never seen crowd apathy like that for a main event match before. You could see closeups of people in the front row just stonefaced. I now have something to reference to.

[Guest Kingpk]

It's the evolution of the sport though. You will find the same stuff going on in every fed out there.

What, that the company refuses to evolve and make new stars to take the place of the guys who have made their impact and aren't cutting it anymore? The WWF did it once before, and Vince was regarded as a "genius". Why the hell not try it again, especially with seemingly every wrestler in North America at your disposal?