News on Vince, Brock, Triple H & Raw

[Guest bob_barron]

WTF is an Illusion-ite??

 

Here's an idea- HBK pins HHH anyway but it ends up going down to HBK v. Book, RVD or Jericho- you know something new and fresh.

 

Considering he laid around for an hour when he could've done the job and still gotten his heat back later- he doesn't get a medal from me

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

WTF is an Illusion-ite??

A faithful, dedicated, serving follower of Use Your Illusion.

 

That's all of you by the way, ALL OF YOU WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!

 

Hah...Hahaha....HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! *Que stormy clouds with lightening*

 

 

 

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Plenty of wrestlers have continued matches while injured. That's why I have a general respect for wrestlers all together.

 

But I think it was Mick Foley that once said that wrestlers are taught early on that the show must go on. Why is a wrestler continuing a match with an injury discussed as if most wrestlers wouldn't do it?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

It's funny. How long has the internet been saying that Shock TV doesn't work? How many times have we been right? Yet the WWF will continue to look at the smarks and smarts and the like as just a bunch of bitter fans with a computer who, because they don't own a wrestling company of their own and whose last names are NOT Mcmahon, have no idea on what works and what doesn't - and they will continue their ignorance.

[Guest El Satanico]

If shock TV is dead they wouldn't be doing this lesbain angle on Smackdown.

The reports only said that they shot footage to possibly use, It was never confirmed that they will be using it.

[Guest JHawk]

Plenty of wrestlers have continued matches while injured. That's why I have a general respect for wrestlers all together.

 

But I think it was Mick Foley that once said that wrestlers are taught early on that the show must go on. Why is a wrestler continuing a match with an injury discussed as if most wrestlers wouldn't do it?

Because guys like Foley don't lie there for 20 minutes after getting hit with weak looking punches. Doesn't it look the least bit odd that HHH was lying there for half an hour seemingly dead and nobody even made the attempt to pin him?

 

He did have to go about 8-10 minutes after Jericho's elimination to finish, so he gets some credit, but for the WWE suits to suck his duck over it is sad.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Well, while this may go against popular opinion, both definitley deserve respect for what they did. HHH wrestled for a half hour with an injured throat, it does take courage, whether you like the guy or not- and Brock having the strength to F5 the Big Show is also a legimitley awesome feat.

I couldn't agree more, Triple H has recieved ZERO credit from any smark i've seen here and he really should be commended on his performance which did outline his dedication to the business and his drive to deliver, if only best he can, a decent match for a pay per view.

 

If Chris Benoit had done the same thing, the board would still be sucking his dick over it.

 

Illusion

As mentioned previously, he was so dedicated he layed out there during the match waiting for his Kliq buddy and him to be the final 2, so he can put over his good buddy again.

 

Whoopty fuck, give the man a medal. Even injured he won't put anyone over. Couldn't even let SOME ONE ELSE be a part of the final two besides him and Shawn.

 

Hurry up and blow out a knee or tear another quad already, I'm getting impatient.

Oh the ignorance of impetuous youth...

 

The fact Trippers was in there and continued injured has NOTHING to do with him, Triple H doesn't decide how the match ends, he doesn't decide the winner and he isnt the head booker.

 

VINCE McMAHON had the matched planned out so that Triple H would be pinned by Shawn Michaels, all Triple H was doing was HIS JOB, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Stop looking for excuses that are not there, Triple H was booked to be pinned by HBK, and even through a serious injury, that is exactly what he did, just like Vince wanted.

 

Understand, my faithful Illusion-ite?

 

Illusion

As bob said, HBK could have pinned him then, because as I said, I doubt that they HAD to be the final two. Sure, it would help build up the storyline, but not like it matters since the WWE would just book whatever the hell they wanted to lead into the rematch anyway.

 

So, instead, he layed around and waited for it to be his turn. HBK could have pinned him and gotten him the hell out of there to get some medical attention.

 

"Illusionite"--Pppfft..

 

And I like GNR, but they are a distant...#10 or so in my faves.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

It's funny. How long has the internet been saying that Shock TV doesn't work? How many times have we been right? Yet the WWF will continue to look at the smarks and smarts and the like as just a bunch of bitter fans with a computer who, because they don't own a wrestling company of their own and whose last names are NOT Mcmahon, have no idea on what works and what doesn't - and they will continue their ignorance.

And the smarks will continue to act like they know what the general public at large wants and whine and moan for one person to get pushed or another person to get a title run and vow that if they ever got five minutes with Vince McMahon, they'd tell him what he needs to change the face of wrestling.

 

 

....And then, five minutes later, those Smarks will bitch and moan about certain ring politicians getting in Vince McMahon's ear and telling him how to run the WWE.

[Guest JHawk]

And the smarks will continue to act like they know what the general public at large wants and whine and moan for one person to get pushed or another person to get a title run and vow that if they ever got five minutes with Vince McMahon, they'd tell him what he needs to change the face of wrestling.

 

 

....And then, five minutes later, those Smarks will bitch and moan about certain ring politicians getting in Vince McMahon's ear and telling him how to run the WWE.

 

Here's the thing. You can say that smarks are a minority of the fanbase (not necessarily true these days with kayfabe being a distant memory, but we'll use it for the sake of argument). But even if we're a minority, we're not an overwhelming minority. Our money is as good as any mark's money is, so why aren't our opinions just as good.

 

Crowd reactions are an easy thing to distinguish. HBK's entrance at Survivor Series got an OK pop, and then nobody gave a shit that he was out there until they were forced to because RVD and Booker (who both got much bigger reactions) were eliminated. It doesn't takea genius like Vince McMahon to figure that out.

 

The WWWF and WWF always went by who was over and who wasn't when determining non-transitional champions. Suddenly, they got the F out and stopped caring about what the paying customer thinks.

[Guest NoCalMike]

I still am confused as to why Triple H, being the professional he is(hahaha) would not opt to have someone pin him to eliminate him for the GOOD OF THE MATCH, rather than lay there for 30 minutes while everything gets all bungled and confused. Of course if his throat was that bad, maybe he wasn't thinking straight, who knows!?!

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Either that, or maybe he couldn't talk.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

"Illusionite"--Pppfft..

Well arn't you a negative human being.

 

Illusion-ite has nothing to do with liking GNR either, BUDDY

 

Illusion - Minus one sheep

[Guest eirejmcmahon]

The best way I've heard it said was by Brian Alvarez on WOL this week:

 

"Vince got up and declared shock-TV was dead. No kidding, that was four years ago you idiot."

Touch wood, the Jarretts caught that particular show then.

[Guest AndrewTS]

And the smarks will continue to act like they know what the general public at large wants and whine and moan for one person to get pushed or another person to get a title run and vow that if they ever got five minutes with Vince McMahon, they'd tell him what he needs to change the face of wrestling.

 

 

....And then, five minutes later, those Smarks will bitch and moan about certain ring politicians getting in Vince McMahon's ear and telling him how to run the WWE.

 

Here's the thing. You can say that smarks are a minority of the fanbase (not necessarily true these days with kayfabe being a distant memory, but we'll use it for the sake of argument). But even if we're a minority, we're not an overwhelming minority. Our money is as good as any mark's money is, so why aren't our opinions just as good.

 

Crowd reactions are an easy thing to distinguish. HBK's entrance at Survivor Series got an OK pop, and then nobody gave a shit that he was out there until they were forced to because RVD and Booker (who both got much bigger reactions) were eliminated. It doesn't takea genius like Vince McMahon to figure that out.

 

The WWWF and WWF always went by who was over and who wasn't when determining non-transitional champions. Suddenly, they got the F out and stopped caring about what the paying customer thinks.

Yeah--usually our suggestions are ones that please everyone. Like..PUSHING SOME ONE WHO IS ACTUALLY OVER?!

 

And I wouldn't want Benoit to have the title unless he was over and a credible contender. He can be any time they give him a slight bit more of a push.

 

Angle's over and is ready for it as soon as they make a decent program for him.

 

Big Show IS NOT OVER AND HE SUCKS!! He doesn't belong in the main event of anything higher than a weekend syndicated show. MAYBE on a main show in a tag team main event clusterfuck. Nothing more.

 

It's a stretch for Brock even, who is getting over--but not main eventing, Disputed WWE Title caliber. Bitch about Anglesault's bitching, but he's absolutely right about that.

 

Most of the time we ask for things that are perfectly reasonable, that smarks and marks won't object about. However, a lot of the marks don't appreciate good wrestling. That's a decade-plus result of Vince training them to only have an attention span of 3 minutes or so, and hiring announcers who can't help tell the story of the match instead of sucking the cock of HHH, one of their wonderboys getting a God push, or screaming about PUPPIES!! PUPPIES!!

 

Remember when Russo tried to cater to smarks? We hated it, marks hated it, and the company died. You have to please as much of your audience as possible.

 

Pushing unover wrestlers, hasbeens, putting a corpsefucking segment on TV, and having the face wrestlers constantly dicked over without getting a tiny fucking bit of revenge, and NEVER getting the big wins is NOT the way to do it. End of story.

 

And if Vince lets some one without a clue get into his ear and fuck up the company, he's a dumbass who deserves to go out of business.

 

ECW, WCW--you're next, Vinnie Boy, if you, your yes-men, and your bitch daughter keep driving away fans with dumbass booking.

[Guest Anglesault]

Well, while this may go against popular opinion, both definitley deserve respect for what they did. HHH wrestled for a half hour with an injured throat, it does take courage, whether you like the guy or not- and Brock having the strength to F5 the Big Show is also a legimitley awesome feat.

I couldn't agree more, Triple H has recieved ZERO credit from any smark i've seen here and he really should be commended on his performance which did outline his dedication to the business and his drive to deliver, if only best he can, a decent match for a pay per view.

 

If Chris Benoit had done the same thing, the board would still be sucking his dick over it.

 

Illusion

As mentioned previously, he was so dedicated he layed out there during the match waiting for his Kliq buddy and him to be the final 2, so he can put over his good buddy again.

 

Whoopty fuck, give the man a medal. Even injured he won't put anyone over. Couldn't even let SOME ONE ELSE be a part of the final two besides him and Shawn.

 

Hurry up and blow out a knee or tear another quad already, I'm getting impatient.

Oh the ignorance of impetuous youth...

 

The fact Trippers was in there and continued injured has NOTHING to do with him, Triple H doesn't decide how the match ends, he doesn't decide the winner and he isnt the head booker.

 

VINCE McMAHON had the matched planned out so that Triple H would be pinned by Shawn Michaels, all Triple H was doing was HIS JOB, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Stop looking for excuses that are not there, Triple H was booked to be pinned by HBK, and even through a serious injury, that is exactly what he did, just like Vince wanted.

 

Understand, my faithful Illusion-ite?

 

Illusion

Austin was booked to win Final Four. He got injured. So he layed down in the corner and did nothing for the rest of the match. Oh, no, wait, he took himself out of the match, now didn't he?

[Guest teke184]

With Raw ratings floundering, Vince McMahon recently got up during a creative meeting and declared that Shock TV was dead.

 

McMahon reportedly said that using Shock TV is no longer a way to generate interest in the show.

 

Presumably, there will be less or no Shock TV elements used on WWE TV in the foreseeable future.

And yet we get a certain angle tonight on Smackdown...

 

Vince is either lying through his teeth on a lot of stuff or going senile. Maybe both.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Yeah...HHH gets no credit for laying there when the SAME thing happened to Austin in a match HE WAS BOOKED TO WIN and he changed the ending.

 

This was pre-Mania 14 too...so Austin wasn't exactly the "top" guy that HHH is.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

Well, while this may go against popular opinion, both definitley deserve respect for what they did. HHH wrestled for a half hour with an injured throat, it does take courage, whether you like the guy or not- and Brock having the strength to F5 the Big Show is also a legimitley awesome feat.

I couldn't agree more, Triple H has recieved ZERO credit from any smark i've seen here and he really should be commended on his performance which did outline his dedication to the business and his drive to deliver, if only best he can, a decent match for a pay per view.

 

If Chris Benoit had done the same thing, the board would still be sucking his dick over it.

 

Illusion

As mentioned previously, he was so dedicated he layed out there during the match waiting for his Kliq buddy and him to be the final 2, so he can put over his good buddy again.

 

Whoopty fuck, give the man a medal. Even injured he won't put anyone over. Couldn't even let SOME ONE ELSE be a part of the final two besides him and Shawn.

 

Hurry up and blow out a knee or tear another quad already, I'm getting impatient.

Oh the ignorance of impetuous youth...

 

The fact Trippers was in there and continued injured has NOTHING to do with him, Triple H doesn't decide how the match ends, he doesn't decide the winner and he isnt the head booker.

 

VINCE McMAHON had the matched planned out so that Triple H would be pinned by Shawn Michaels, all Triple H was doing was HIS JOB, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Stop looking for excuses that are not there, Triple H was booked to be pinned by HBK, and even through a serious injury, that is exactly what he did, just like Vince wanted.

 

Understand, my faithful Illusion-ite?

 

Illusion

Austin was booked to win Final Four. He got injured. So he layed down in the corner and did nothing for the rest of the match. Oh, no, wait, he took himself out of the match, now didn't he?

Different situation, different circumstances.

 

Austin blew his knee out AND Vince McMahon sent a message to the referee and explained the new finish he wanted.

 

If Vince had wanted a different finish to the Elimination Chamber, he would have changed it accordingly on the spot, much like the final four, however he obviously had faith in Triple H's ability to proceed with the original plan for him to be beated by HBK.

 

So, really, your attempt to show Triple H off as something he wasn't that night has failed.

 

Illusion

[Guest Redhawk]

If it hadn't gone down to HHH vs. HBK, Shawn's title win would mean less. Doesn't everyone complain when the champ doesn't do the job in a Triple Threat match (i.e. Undertaker-Angle-Rock from Vengeance)? So why would it be better for HHH to bow out early?

[Guest Anglesault]

For the quality of the match? The excitement? His own health? How did laying there for half an hour help any of those things?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

um....he still would have had to job by the nature of the match rules.

 

Hell...if Shawn had pinned him and then had to go toe to toe with Jericho afterwards...it could have benefited more than just the two Kliq members and had a better finish, since HBK would have already beaten HHH...there would have been a good amount of doubt as to whether he would win the match too.

 

But Jericho isn't a Kliq member and has no place in the final. It's a shame Nash got hurt...he'd have been there.

[Guest Redhawk]

Good booking would always have the champion doing the job to the challenger, and in a match like that, the champ doing the [bold]final[/bold] job to the new champion.

 

Look at the Fatal Four-Way from WM2000. Everyone thought The Rock or Foley would win the belt, and it was a foregone conclusion that when they did it would be by pinning Triple H, not Big Show or someone else.

 

In the Triple Threat at SummerSlam 1999, who did Mankind pin? Steve Austin. Who did Big Show pin at Survivor Series later that year? The champ, HHH.

 

So, yes, HHH would have had to job anyway, but doing the title change job is the one that counts.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Oh yeah...

 

who did Rock pin to win the title back from HHH in a 6 man match?

 

Who did Rock pin to win the title from Undertaker?

 

There are just as many that go the other way.

 

Hell...how did Jericho and Benoit win the Euro and IC titles at the SAME show as that fatal 4 way?

[Guest Brian]

I think the point he was trying to make was in elimination matches.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Ok then.

 

...

 

Jericho lost the ECW TV title and was the first one eliminated in a match against Douglas, Scorpio and a PitBull.

 

...

 

Hell I don't know...they don't do a lot of elimination matches in WWE.

 

But with HHH being unable to do anything but lay there they should have made an exception for the fans sake.

 

It's not like he was winning anyway.

[Guest Kid Kablam]

Well, while this may go against popular opinion, both definitley deserve respect for what they did. HHH wrestled for a half hour with an injured throat, it does take courage, whether you like the guy or not- and Brock having the strength to F5 the Big Show is also a legimitley awesome feat.

I couldn't agree more, Triple H has recieved ZERO credit from any smark i've seen here and he really should be commended on his performance which did outline his dedication to the business and his drive to deliver, if only best he can, a decent match for a pay per view.

 

If Chris Benoit had done the same thing, the board would still be sucking his dick over it.

 

Illusion

Ummm Benoit HAS done it. Last year his neck bothered him for god knows how long, and he put on some great matches.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

um....he still would have had to job by the nature of the match rules.

 

Hell...if Shawn had pinned him and then had to go toe to toe with Jericho afterwards...it could have benefited more than just the two Kliq members and had a better finish, since HBK would have already beaten HHH...there would have been a good amount of doubt as to whether he would win the match too.

 

But Jericho isn't a Kliq member and has no place in the final. It's a shame Nash got hurt...he'd have been there.

I am greatly interested in knowing where your pulling all this from.

 

Despite what YOU think, in the eyes of our good friend Mr.McMahon, Triple H and HBK are the two most over individuals on RAW, you could tell this by the promotional poster they had on WWE.com before the event which squarely focused in on Shawn Michaels and Hunter-Hearst Helmsley, which the rest of the contenders in the background.

 

Vince wanted the finish to INVOLVE HBK and HHH, NOT Jericho.

 

DO YOU UNDERSTAND ?

 

I'm getting pretty sick and tired of explaining this to people who are only looking for excuses to flame Triple H, who isn't to blame this time because, contrary to popular belief, HE DOESNT OWN THE WWE!

 

Illusion

[Guest Brian]

Not yet at least.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Regardless of how the "should" have done the match. I'm not going to get all overly......"oh my God HHH kept wrestling" cause it happens all the time. Most of the roster is probably working through injuries on a daily basis.

 

I have a general respect for all wrestlers for that reason. But that doesn't erase the fact that I still think HHH is an asshole.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

Regardless of how the "should" have done the match. I'm not going to get all overly......"oh my God HHH kept wrestling" cause it happens all the time. Most of the roster is probably working through injuries on a daily basis.

 

I have a general respect for all wrestlers for that reason. But that doesn't erase the fact that I still think HHH is an asshole.

True, however name one wrestler that is currently working through a crushed trachea.

 

That shit is serious, and for a person who, at the time, would have seriously feared for their OWN life to keep on working through a match to appease the boss and his vision of the outcome shows serious dedication and determination.

 

Illusion