Raven might be next to be released

[Guest Mole]

I thought ECW was basically in the red every year of it's existance? If so, that doesn't make Raven a draw in any sense of the word.

That's pretty silly logic. Before this year, WWE made money every quarter for a lot of years in a row--does that mean Big Show was a draw during that time???

 

RVD was also in ECW (as were Foley, Benoit, Austin--for very short periods of time yes, but ECW lost money during those short periods too). Can you honestly say that RVD was not a draw?

 

ECW always lost money, but there were many people (again, small-time by WWE standards) who bought tickets and PPV's specifally to see one of the many "classic" (for ECW) feuds that Raven was involved in.

Yes, those are some very good points. I have never thought of that before.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Eh, most of the ECW fans that I've talked to said they went to the shows and/or bought the PPVs because it was ECW. And under the circumstances, you could say RVD was a draw.

 

On a sidenote, Raven didn't have that many classic feuds that I can recall other than Dreamer and Sandhick. Outside of those two, all the rest were pretty bleh.

[Guest Mole]

I thought ECW was basically in the red every year of it's existance? If so, that doesn't make Raven a draw in any sense of the word.

That's pretty silly logic. Before this year, WWE made money every quarter for a lot of years in a row--does that mean Big Show was a draw during that time???

 

RVD was also in ECW (as were Foley, Benoit, Austin--for very short periods of time yes, but ECW lost money during those short periods too). Can you honestly say that RVD was not a draw?

 

ECW always lost money, but there were many people (again, small-time by WWE standards) who bought tickets and PPV's specifally to see one of the many "classic" (for ECW) feuds that Raven was involved in.

Eh, most of the ECW fans that I've talked to said they went to the shows and/or bought the PPVs because it was ECW. And under the circumstances, you could say RVD was a draw.

 

On a sidenote, Raven didn't have that many classic feuds that I can recall other than Dreamer and Sandhick. Outside of those two, all the rest were pretty bleh.

Weren't those basically his only two feuds? I didn't watch much ECW, so I don't really know.

 

And what do you think is going on in the WWE now? The people who are watching it now are just watching it because well, they are hardcore fans. I am only watching it because it is WWE, and I will always watch it. So that is like saying Triple-Juice is a draw.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

There was the horrible Credible feud after Justin won the belt from Tommy, but that was like 2 or 3 weeks and then Raven left for the WWF.

 

And I'm still drawing a blank on any other feud he had. Maybe the whole Pitbulls mess, but that's about it.

[Guest Mole]

There was the horrible Credible feud after Justin won the belt from Tommy, but that was like 2 or 3 weeks and then Raven left for the WWF.

 

And I'm still drawing a blank on any other feud he had. Maybe the whole Pitbulls mess, but that's about it.

Okay, well from Raven's four feuds he had in ECW, two sucked, and two were good. Well, if you count the Justin feud since he left shortly after.

 

So basically, Raven had a pretty good ECW career. SCSA has had some pretty shitty feuds in WWF/WWE, so does that mean his career was bleh in WWF/WWE?

[Guest El Satanico]

Well other then Shannon Moore I have no problem with any of those rumored cuts.

 

Shannon Moore is the only one on the list that has potential for the future. The rest of them are dead weight that have no future potential.

 

Raven will be better off somewhere like TNA anyways so oh well.

[Guest Mole]

Well other then Shannon Moore I have no problem with any of those rumored cuts.

 

Shannon Moore is the only one on the list that has potential for the future. The rest of them are dead weight that have no future potential.

 

Raven will be better off somewhere like TNA anyways so oh well.

Yes, Raven will probably be better off in TNA. However, it is still sad to see Vince cut someone like him.

[Guest BA_Baracus]

Wow, so add all those guys salaries up and they should end up saving about...uhhh...what, 200 000 bucks?

 

Well, that's worth it. Now they can use that money to hire guys who are the future of the business like Scott Steiner and Scott Hall, and build big ugly half million dollar cages...

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Raven's ECW feuds.

 

Tommy Dreamer, 1995-1997, 1999-2000

 

Raven pretty much feuded with Tommy, and other feuds kind spawned off that one.

 

Raven feuded with the Pit Bulls (Dreamer's buddies). Also with Terry Funk between 95-97

 

He had a mini program with Shane Douglas...but it wasn't really a big feud.

 

Plus his Sandman feud...that was there from 96-97, the whole "stealing his family" bit.

 

When he came back in 99 he pretty much feuded with Tommy, Justin, and Lance (when teaming with Justin)

[Guest bob_barron]

Simmons was retiring, so I'll assume he'll take a pay cut and take a loyalty job.

 

I always liked the Mamalukes and I never thought Johnny the Bull got a fair shake (this guy turns more than Flair).

 

I think with Shannon Moore they could've easily done a Dibiase-Virgil type thing with Matt until he finally breaks away wants to go on his own.

 

I was really digging the series of matches him and Hurricane had with Billy and Chuck.

 

Raven has never really impressed me much so I don't think this him getting cut is a big loss

[Guest creativename]

Eh, most of the ECW fans that I've talked to said they went to the shows and/or bought the PPVs because it was ECW. And under the circumstances, you could say RVD was a draw.

 

On a sidenote, Raven didn't have that many classic feuds that I can recall other than Dreamer and Sandhick. Outside of those two, all the rest were pretty bleh.

 

That's why I put classic in quotes. We might not think they were classic, but that doesn't matter because many of the mutants who plopped down money to pay those shows did. And when most people think about ECW, Raven-Dreamer is one of the things that comes into their heads.

 

The question is not whether the feuds were classic, or even good, it's that a significant amount of people did pay money to see them. We are discussing whether Raven was a draw or not, not whether he's a good wrestler or anything like that. And yes of course most fans were fans simply it because it was ECW; the same is true for most promotions.

 

So the point remains that Raven is more of a "proven draw", as WWE would say, then any of those people on the list (except Mr. Ass...natch ). And of course by "draw", it is assumed that one brought in more fans than they drove away--obviously there are some freaks out there that buy a PPV because they wanted to see Diesel-Mabel, but there are many more fans who were driven away by that because they refused to pay to see Diesel-Mabel. And at this point, while Raven is no longer a draw, I doubt he's actively driving people away either--a lot of the dead weight that the WWE has no intention of cutting cannot say that; thus, they should certainly be cut before Raven.

 

[Oh and APO, if this was your original message, why did you edit it? That only made me think that you had flamed me but then thought better of it. Better to leave the message as is than arouse suspicions, I think. ]

 

bob_barron:

Raven has never really impressed me much so I don't think this him getting cut is a big loss

 

It's not a big loss, it's just that there are many people who should be higher up the queue to getting cut than Raven and Shannon Moore.

[Guest saturnmark4life]

what i don't get is that raven is the only person with any sort of decent storyline right now, i mean the punishing for a different sin each week thing and breaking that jobbers fingers, and all the promos they really, REALLY shouldn't throw this one away. They just never try anything new, and i am sick of it. Fuck em.

[Guest converge241]

"Who's going to be on Heat if D'lo is possibly getting a RAW push finally and Raven, Stamboli, and Justin Jobber are canned? "

 

the smackdown guys when they cancel it

[Guest notJames]

Can someone explain to me what's so special about Shannon Moore? I have yet to see him do anything even remotely interesting, in or out of the ring, anywhere.

[Guest Rob Edwards]

If they had any sense they'd pass Raven a headset rather than fire him

[Guest Nevermortal]

ECW fans bought tickets because of ECW, not because of individual wrestlers.

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

Can someone explain to me what's so special about Shannon Moore? I have yet to see him do anything even remotely interesting, in or out of the ring, anywhere.

I found him entertaining when he was teaming w/ Hurricane on SD.

[Guest notJames]

But was it he himself that was interesting in his own right, or was it because he was playing off such a colourful character as the Hurricane? Basically anyone can look good teaming with a popular character if he has adequate skills.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

[Oh and APO, if this was your original message, why did you edit it? That only made me think that you had flamed me but then thought better of it. Better to leave the message as is than arouse suspicions, I think. ]

LOL, true. I didn't think it had come out right when I reread it, but I put it back in now.

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

Well, I liked him back in WCW in 3-Count, so I'm probably not the most objective guy re: Moore.

 

It was the combo of Helms & Moore that made the matches good. Seeing some of the 3-Count double team moves made me "mark out" a bit. They just had good chemistry from working together for so long, and you could tell they were having a blast being reunited. They could have made a damn good face team in the SD tag division (Moore playing the face-in-peril, and Helms getting the hot tag), while still being players in the cruiser division. Moving Helms to Raw fucked over both of them (Helms jobbing to hosses, Moore disappearing from SD).

 

I'll admit Moore by himself was a bit spotty in his work, but no worse than Jeff Hardy on Raw. They should have let him run as Mattitude's MF'er, and maybe given them a run as a tag team.

[Guest evilhomer]

If they had any sense they'd pass Raven a headset rather than fire him

If they had any sense there's a hell of a lot of things they would do.

 

 

I think Raven isn't commentating because he doesn't want to, he'd rather be wrestling and/or Lawler might have been pissed because of what Raven said during his Raw commentating debut. Lawler may not have a lot of power, but he could put in a bad word here and there.

 

 

At least if Raven goes I can go back to skipping Heat.

[Guest bob_barron]

Raven didnt want to be commentator for some reason so it's his fault

[Guest Ravenbomb]

Yeah, I said to fire Kanyon and Rhyno once NWATNA get a TV deal so they could go to TNA and get used a lot better than 1 minute squash matches against Undertakane (in Kanyon's case, at least).