God and stuff

[Guest hardyz1]

I'm an agnostic. If my grandmother ever found that out, she would immediately suffer at least 35 heart attacks.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

A question for the people who believe in God what do you think happens to atheist and even agnostic people when they die.

 

I would guess an atheist would think when you die your worm food and nothing else. But if it's something else feel free to tell me.

[Guest converge241]

I get very frightened when i try to think about what happens when you die.. how do you envision potential nothingness or just grasping the concept of not existing anymore?

[Guest El Satanico]

Well death should be something you don't look forward to so i have no problem with the worm food and then nothing theory.

 

You should live your life like it's the only one you have because it just may be. That way when you die you have no regrets about what you didn't do during your life.

[Guest converge241]

i believe in the fullest capacity live today mottos

 

when you come across those thoughts its just temporarily unsettleing

[Guest Will Scarlet]

how do you envision potential nothingness or just grasping the concept of not existing anymore?

 

I look at it like I do just falling asleep all of a sudden. You never really realize it. Either that or death is where I wake up in a dream world where I am blissfully unaware of my other life, much like I am in dreams.

 

I actually had a conversation about this once with an ex-girlfriend. Of course, at that point, I was fascinated with the theory that world is an illusion and nothing actually exists outside of myself. Telling my then-girlfriend that she was nothing more than a figment of my imagination was probably not the brightest of ideas. Then again, considering I will never talk to or see her ever again, she pretty much is a figment of my imagination at this point.

[Guest SP-1]

Verne, do you want an honest answer to that?

[Guest converge241]

"I actually had a conversation about this once with an ex-girlfriend. Of course, at that point, I was fascinated with the theory that world is an illusion and nothing actually exists outside of myself. "

 

ah yes the whole "the red ball doesnt exist when you dont see it" theory

 

good stuff

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Verne, do you want an honest answer to that?

Yes.

[Guest SP-1]

Okay.

 

The basic belief is that those who do not come to Christ in faith will wind up in Hell. No, not a Hell ruled over by Satan. Satan burns too. Without faith that Christ's death covered the sin that seperates you from God, and hsi resurrection is a sign of eternal life, the seperation continues into eternity. As I understand it.

 

It isn't because of vengeance or harted on God's part. It's mechanics of how He set creation up, I think. After the Fall, mankind was seperated from God by sin. God sent His Son into the world, Christ's death and bloodshed (a mark of a covenant has always been bloodshed, it's why animals were killed in sacrifice for cleansing of sin before Christ). Perfect, Christ's death was the ultimate universal payment for sin, covering everyone. Christ spent 3 days and nights in Hell, I believe, before being resurrected (the defeat of death and, i think, the promise of eternal life for believers). Salvation is recieved when you recieve Christ into your heart/life by faith.

 

The gift is there for everyone. The ones who don't take it make their own choices. That's how we view it. But Christians haven't the right to condemn anyone. All we're called to do is tell people about Christ. Their decision is between God and themselves and out of our hands. Otherwise, we're just called to stand for Christ in the world and allow Him to work in our hearts and lives. As I understand it.

[Guest EricMM]

I've always believed that there was one god, and he was kind of behind many many religions on earth.

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

I've never understood the big deal about Christ being God's only son...I mean, He's GOD, fer chrissakes. It's not like He can't say "poof" and have another.

 

I've also never understood the point of "I'll create a guy, send him to Earth so he can be killed, and only THEN will I forgive you." It's such a self-fulfilling prophecy that it just seems silly to me.

[Guest SP-1]

According to faith, however, Christ was always a part of the Trinity. He's as much God as he was man. Jesus was God incarnate. God didn't simply create a man, it was much more than that. God the Son pretty much left there, and came here knowing full well what was coming. It wasn't that a mere man died that saved us.

 

It was that God the Son, given by the Father, concieved of the Holy Spirit, came here and allowed himself to be nailed to a cross and killed. That sacrifice was the ultimate. Rather than a goat serving as a minor, for the moment sacrifice, God Incarnate gave himself to universally pay all sin so that a sacrifice of that sort wouldn't be needed again. It was the knockout blow to the Devil's schemes as far as eternity goes. After three days, Christ was glorified and he rose to return to the Father's side, defeating death itself and giving us the promise that in Him, so we become eternal. We recieve the Holy Spirit when we recieve Christ as a counselor and as a mark, a receipt if you will, of the transaction we have made with God in faith. Christ paid in full, we recieve the gift.

 

It was never a matter of a simple man dying or God suddenly creating another kid. The "kid" was part of God and always was, always will be.

 

in Peace,

SP

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

Still...you're talking about a being of supreme power. Someone who can do ANYTHING. I have a hard time believing that it's such a big deal that he sacrificed part of himself, if you wanna put it that way, considering that he has the ability to do anything.

 

I mean, he's God - why was a sacrifice of himself even necessary, when with a blink of his eyes, he could wipe Satan from existence and just forgive everyone from his infinite patience?

 

That just doesn't sit with me, and hasn't since I thought about it.

[Guest SP-1]

What I have tome to understand is that while God can do anything, he chooses to do things in a process. He isn't mad with power. And honestly, he's always operated in that way from day one with us. He's used things and built upon things with us humans. In our physical existence, the magnitude of the death and resurrection of God Incarnate bridged the gap that sin placed there.

 

Just because God can do a thing, he's never exhibited a reckless whim to do a thing. He does things His way, ultimately and we don't always understand ever minute detail.

 

But then, we don't understand every minute detail about why we ourselves do things either. It's part of God being a relational being like we are. Sometimes you just don't know why someone chooses to carry out a task in the specific way they do, unfortunately. Personally, I can't wait to hear about the mechanics of it when I am face to face with Him. Much like a scientist, I'm itching to study the make up and execution of why things played out as they did.

 

There are, of course, possibly things that have been presented that deal with these questions that I am not aware of. I may check on it and see if there are any presentations based in the Word on the matter.

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

I understand that God has His reasons - that said, the miracle of Christ still fails to impress me. It's like me being a multi-billionaire, giving some bum a quarter, and expecting him to be impressed with it.

 

That's how I see it, anyway.

[Guest SP-1]

Indeed. Well I'm not going to condemn you. I can just present what I know. If I find anything more to expand upon my earlier posts I'll be sure to post it later on.

 

'tis late and I'm tired. Go see Star Trek: Nemesis peeps.

[Guest big Dante Cruz]

Metal, I'm going to take a stab at this.

 

Christ being sacrificed wasn't a man dying. Like SP said, it was God Incarnate. Part of God died to bridge the gap between Himself and humanity.

 

Now, as for evil, well, God is relational. He wants people to come to Him because they want to. Ever been forced to go on a date with someone b/c your folks said so? Not quite the same thing, but it's a parallel. God gave up part of Himself to die and forgive the sins committed against Him.

 

I hope that helped.

[Guest DrTom]

Christ being sacrificed wasn't a man dying.

Don't you need a "just" in there? I was always taught that Church dogma dictates that Jesus was both fully human and fully divine, and to deny either is one of those Bad Things You Shouldn't Do if you're of the religious persuasion.

[Guest SP-1]

EDIT:

 

Nevermind, I'm an idiot. I thought Tom was replying to something I posted.

[Guest LooseCannon]

Christ being sacrificed wasn't a man dying.

Don't you need a "just" in there? I was always taught that Church dogma dictates that Jesus was both fully human and fully divine, and to deny either is one of those Bad Things You Shouldn't Do if you're of the religious persuasion.

Yeah that's my understanding as well with docetism and arianism being the heresies that deny one or the other.

[Guest Ravenbomb]

A question for the people who believe in God what do you think happens to atheist and even agnostic people when they die.

They get reincarnated like everybody else.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

fuck! I go away and agnes makes a good topic!

 

my answer:

 

I like to steal a line from Babylon 5: "The More You Try To Define God, The Further Away You Get From The Truth"

 

I was born a Protestent but we were never very active in church and I soon stopped attending.

 

I've always thought trying to define God was futile because to me "God" is just a word we as humans use to describe something we can't ever possible understand.

 

I try to live my life as ethicly as possible and I believe people have the right to believe what they want as long as they don't harm others or promote hatred.

 

Karl Marx was dead on when he said, "Religion is the Opium of the Masses".

 

I can't get into organized religon because it comes off as fake to me. I like to take bits and peices of all religons and peice them together to get the best system of belief I can get.

[Guest Dopey]

I love debating this with people who believe in god. I just bust out the "If there is a god, who created him" on them, and they get confused.

Children sometimes ask,"Who made God?" The clearest answer is that God never needed to be made, because He was always there. He exists in a different way from us: we exist in a derived, finite, and fragle way, but our Creator exists as eternal, self-sustaining, and necessary. His existence is necessary in the sense that there is no possibility in Him of ceasing to exist.

God's self-existence is a basic truth. In his presentation of the "unkown God" to the Athenians, Paul explained that the Creator of the world is not "worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things" (Acts 17:23-25). The Creator has life in Himself and draws His unending energy from Himself, needing nothing. The independent self-existing of God is a truth stated clearly in the Bible (Ps. 90:1-4; 102:25-27; Isaiah 40:28-31; John 5:26; Rev. 4:10).

In theology, many errors result from supposing that the conditions and limits of our own finite existence apply to God. In the life of faith we can too easily impoverisgh ourselves by embracing an idea of God that is limited and small. The doctrine of His self-existence is a bulwark and defense against such mistakes. The princible that God exists from Himself alone distinguishes Him from every creature and is a foundation of our thinking about Him. Knowing that God's existence is independent protects our understanding of His greatness, and so has clear practical value for our spiritual health.

[Guest NoCalMike]

Here is a stupid question, but it might spark some responses. If jesus died for our sins, then why is man still "born into sin" ?? Did jesus dying, like bring us "half-way" there or something? Another question is, if you accept the love of jesus christ into your heart, but still sin(not purposely, just slipping up from time to time) where does that leave you as far as the afterlife goes?

[Guest SP-1]

NoCal, I'll take a crack at that.

 

Man is born into sin. We have been since the Fall. When Christ died, it wasn't just that, but it was a new covenant God made with us. Basically, in order to gain the gift of Grace and forgiveness, you have to accept Christ by Faith. I suppose it goes back to God being a relational being. He asks that we recognize that he is there and what He did to reconcile us to Himself.

 

And being a Christian doesn't mean you automatically become perfect. Not one of us perfect in this Earthly life. Just forgiven. Christ died to cover over ALL of our sins. If you sin, especially mistakenly, confess and repent, talk to God about it. Your sins are dealt with, totally, when you recieve Christ by faith. The changes and repentance come with the relationship and growing in your walk with Christ. As you grow and are encouraged, so you are emboldened. As you grow in who you are in Christ, confident in that eternal forgiveness, it becomes easier to detach yourself from your sinful activities. It's somewhat of a process, I believe. Once you're saved, you're saved, unless you go and do something extreme like publicly denounce Christ or something (I think, don't hold me on that, I'll check into it and follow up). It's your job not to lose who you are in Christ, though, because turning away and not communicating with God often leads to denouncing Christ and getting yourself into a bit of a pickle.

 

Of course, sooner or later, God comes for His children. More often than not, people get their head on straight and recommit to Christ.

 

I'll go searching and see if I can simplify/clarify some of that later on.

[Guest Dopey]

Here is a stupid question, but it might spark some responses. If jesus died for our sins, then why is man still "born into sin" ?? Did jesus dying, like bring us "half-way" there or something? Another question is, if you accept the love of jesus christ into your heart, but still sin(not purposely, just slipping up from time to time) where does that leave you as far as the afterlife goes?

TULIP!!! This is an acrostic .

 

T --Total Depravity

U --Unconditional Election

L --Limited Atonement

I --Irresistable Grace

P --Perseverance of the Saints

 

Yes the 5 points of Calvinism. I can type for hours on the subject but for time sake...

1. (T) Since Adam sinned, and he represented the federal headship of mankind, he spread his sin to all his progeny. Original Sin. Therefore you were "born into sin". Romans 5:12, Jer. 17:9, Rom. 3:11, Psalm 51:5, Gen. 8:21....

2. (U) Election is grounded entirely in the free will of God and in His purpose for those whom He chose "in Christ Jesus" before the foundation of the world. His foreknowledge is based upon His purpose, for His purpose is the manifestation of His sovereign will. Since man is incapable of giving himself life, opening his own eyes, or teaching himsilf spiritual truth, God must elect to act on man's behalf. The work of Regeneration, therefore, must precede Faith and Repentance, and is the work of God. He must "open the heart" and cause His elect "to will and do" that which is pleasing to Him, otherwise none would believe. John 15:16, Acts 13:48, Eph. 1:11, II Tim. 1:9, John 6:44!!! <---read this one in the greek, wow!!!

3. (L) Atonement is for the Elect only, since Christ died only for those whom the Father gave Him to be His Bride. Only the saints or elect ones are ever said to be "beloved of God", for they alone are the objects of His saving grace. If only the elect are to be saved, then Christ died for them, and them alone. Although it is true that the blood of Christ is surely SUFFICIENT in value to atone for all, still it is obviously EFFICIENT only for those who are saved by His unmerited favor. John 10:14-15, Eph. 5:25, John 17:9, Mt. 1:21, Col. 1:12-24, I Thess. 1:4, Col. 3:12...

4. (I) Since it is the will of God that those whom He gave to His dear Son in eternity past should be saved, He will surely act in sovereign grace in such a way that the elect will find Christ irresistible. God does not FORCE the elect to trust in His Son but rather, gives them life. The DEAD human spirit finds the dead spirit of Satan irresistible, and all LIVING human spirits find the God of the living irresistable. Regeneration (the work of God) must prececed true repentance and faith. Dan. 4:35, Isaiah 46:9-10, JOHN 6:37, James 1:18, John 1:13, Eph. 2:4-5, Titus 3:5...

5. (P) To be blunt. Once saved, always saved. If you are saved, you didn't save yourself, that was the work of the LORD. He has promised His elect that no creature ( including themselves) can take them away from Him. Jude 24, Jude 1, Ezek. 11:19, I Pet. 1:5, II Tim. 1:12, Psalm 37:28, I Thes. 5:24, Phil. 1:6, John 8:39, John 10:27-29, Romans 8:37-39...

 

Norcal-Mike, If you have read up to this point your questions should be answered.

 

ANYBODY ON THIS BOARD READING THIS POST; THIS LITTLE POST (if you read it point by point and all the scripture that follows each point, in context) SHOULD CLEAR UP AT LEAST 75% OF ALL YOUR QUESTIONS ON SALVATION.

 

Now may GOD richly bless you and make HIS face to shine upon you.

[Guest welshjerichomark]

i believe in god, for many reasons but mainly because

 

1) i find it hard to believe that we are only here because of series of explosions and chemical reactions, think how incredibly complex the human body is.

 

2)i cant comprehend not existing.

 

it has been said that heaven is a state of mind so maybe you will only go to heaven if you believe you will.

[Guest Dopey]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY LORD JESUS!!!

 

Thank you Father, for sending your Son to us, to die for our sins!!! Thank you LORD.

 

YEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Guest J*ingus]

I thought I remembered reading one time that Jesus couldn't have been born on December 25, since at that time during the winter there wouldn't have been any shepherds tending flocks in their fields, like the ones the Bible mentions. And that the Catholic church, in the early dark ages, absorbed the old pagan holiday of Yule into their own dogma by claiming that it was the birthday of their saviour, hoping that this claim would win over some of the polytheistic barbarian tribes.