How can true Muslims claim Islam as peace loving?

[Guest Downhome]

I know that scripture can be interpreted in different ways for EVERY holy book for every religion, but this seems rather straight forward. How can one stand for the Islamic faith, when it blantently teaches, straight from the Koran...

 

"Wage War on the 'People of the Book', who do not accept the religion of Islam" (Qur'an - 9:29)

 

"Fight against them (the Jews and Christians)! Allah shall punish them AT YOUR HAND"!! (Qur'an 9:14)

 

"Enmity and hatred shall reign between us until ye believe in Allah alone" (Qur'an 60:4)

 

"Those who follow Muhammad are merciless to the unbelievers but kind to each other" (Qur'an 48:29)

 

"Make war on them (non-Muslims) until idolatry does not exist any longer and Allah's religion reigns universally". (Qur'an 8:39) (2:193)

 

Hadith Sahih Muslim (4363) "You (the Jews) should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle and I wish to expel you from this land (Arabia)

 

Muslim (4366) "I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslims."

 

(Qur'an 48:29) "Those who follow Muhammad are merciless for the unbelievers but kind to each other."

 

Qur'an (60:4) "Enmity and hatred will reign between us until ye believe in Allah alone."

 

Qur'an (8:39) (2:193) "Make war on them until idolatory does not exist any longer and Allah's religion reigns universally."

 

Qur'an (9:123) "Fight the unbelievers in your surroundings, and let them find harshness in you."

 

Qur'an (9:5) "Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them, capture and besiege them and prepare for them every kind of ambush."

 

Qur’an (8:60) “Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies of Allah”.

 

Qur'an (5:72-73) "For he who believes in the Trinity, "the Fire will be his abode … a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemer."

 

...I'm not trying to start anything, but can you possibly explain these in a way that actually can put the religion in a positive light? From my understanding, it basicly tells the "true" hardcore followers of Islam to stand up and fight against all that do not believe in their ways.

 

If I am misunderstanding, please explain, as we all know that scripture from ANY religious book can be interpreted in different ways. I just view these quotes as basicly straightforward. So if you really want to do your cause good, then now is your chance to explain this to us.

 

Sincerely,

...Downhome...

[Guest El Satanico]

The same way followers of The Holy Bible can claim that God is a good peaceful being despite passages painting him as a cruel vengeful being that would butcher animals, children and women if he felt they deserved to die.

 

The Bible isn't exactly a book filled with happy happy feelings either.

[Guest DrTom]

Moving to Current Events.

[Guest TJH]

The same way followers of The Holy Bible can claim that God is a good peaceful being despite passages painting him as a cruel vengeful being that would butcher animals, children and women if he felt they deserved to die.

 

The Bible isn't exactly a book filled with happy happy feelings either.

Maybe so, but:

 

1. Lets see some quotes

2. No-one actually takes the Bible word for word

3. People don't kill people, in this age, in the name of the Bible.

[Zorin Industries 0]

The problem with Islam is that there is no real central authority like the Pope, so any fundamentalist leader can interprit bits of the Koran as he sees fit, with no one to say he is wrong. We also have to remember that Middle Eastern culture is extremely different from Western culture, as it has always seen itself as under attack from the West (and with good cause sometimes). This has hardend a lot of attitudes.

 

Plus, like the bible, the Koran has probably been altered so much from its original version that it probably bears no resembalence to the original.

[Guest EricMM]

No-one actually takes the Bible word for word

 

Of course people do. We've got crazies over here too, people who sign documents confirming that every single word in the bible is the word of god and (I believe the word is something like) Inerrible.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

3. People don't kill people, in this age, in the name of the Bible.

The Klan, anybody?

[Guest El Satanico]

This isn't about what the followers do...this is about what the book says.

[Guest Slapnuts00]

The problem is Christians and Jews have evolved with the time, and no longer take every little word seriously. Muslims for the most part still think it's the year 1200 and raging holy wars on nonbelievers is acceptable behavior. What's so dangerous is they use outdated philosophies with modern technologies like bombs and planes. Scary shit.

[Zorin Industries 0]

The problem is Christians and Jews have evolved with the time, and no longer take every little word seriously. Muslims for the most part still think it's the year 1200 and raging holy wars on nonbelievers is acceptable behavior. What's so dangerous is they use outdated philosophies with modern technologies like bombs and planes. Scary shit.

This is exactley it.

 

Although some Jews and Christians haven't evolved.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Truth be told, all of the Muslims I know also happen to be the most peaceful and morally centred as well. It's ignorant to say that they still "Think it's the year 1200", and under no context should that line of thinking be acceptable. Ass.

[Guest Downhome]

Call me crazy, but the Bible doesn' t say to kill and go against all that are non-believers. The Koran just seems to blatently tell true Muslims to do so, and it stirkes me as rather odd.

[Guest NoCalMike]

90% of muslims don't go out and kill though. We are talking about RADICAL FUNDAMENTALIST MUSLIMS. Not your AVERAGE muslim. Just as it would be UNFAIR to claim that "christians bomb abortion clinics in the name of god" when in fact it is such a tiny portion.

[Guest J*ingus]

1. Lets see some quotes

Are you kidding me? Sometimes the Bible talks about nothing BUT blood and slaughter. Here's a smattering of advocation for violence (and believe me, this is a relatively small sampling):

 

Exodus 15-3: "The Lord is a man of war"

 

various Leviticus death sentences:

 

"For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."

 

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

 

"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."

 

"And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people."

 

"A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them."

 

"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire."

 

"Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him. And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin. And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death."

 

Numbers 1-51: "the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death."

 

Numbers 4-15: "they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die."

 

Numbers 4-20: "but they shall not go in to see when the holy things are covered, lest they die."

 

Numbers 11-1: "And when the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed them that were in the uttermost parts of the camp."

 

Numbers 15-32 to 15-36: "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

 

Numbers 23-23: "Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain."

 

Numbers 24-8: "God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows."

 

Deuteronomy 2-24: "And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain"

 

Deuteronomy 6-14: "Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you; (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth."

 

Deuteronomy 7-2 to 7-5: "And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them; Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.

 

Deuteronomy 13-5: "And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death;"

 

Deuteronomy 13-6 to 13-10: "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die;"

 

Deuteronomy 17-12: "And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel."

 

Deuteronomy 18-20: "But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die."

 

Deuteronomy 23-13: "And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies,"

 

Deuteronomy 22-23: "If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you."

 

Joshua 7-15: "he that is taken with the accursed thing shall be burnt with fire, he and all that he hath:"

 

Joshua 24-19: "Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you,"

 

First Samuel 6-19: "And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter."

 

Second Samuel 5-8: "And David said on that day, Whosoever getteth up to the gutter, and smiteth the Jebusites, and the lame and the blind that are hated of David's soul, he shall be chief and captain."

 

First Kings 20-35: "And a certain man of the sons of the prophets said unto his neighbour in the word of the LORD, Smite me, I pray thee. And the man refused to smite him. Then said he unto him, Because thou hast not obeyed the voice of the LORD, behold, as soon as thou art departed from me, a lion shall slay thee. And as soon as he was departed from him, a lion found him, and slew him."

 

Second Kings 2-23: " as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."

 

First Chronicles 13-9: "And when they came unto the threshingfloor of Chidon, Uzza put forth his hand to hold the ark; for the oxen stumbled. And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzza, and he smote him, because he put his hand to the ark: and there he died before God."

 

Second Chronicles 36-16: But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy. Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him that stooped for age: he gave them all into his hand."

 

Psalms 18-34: "He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms."

 

Psalms 21-9: "Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them. Their fruit shalt thou destroy from the earth, and their seed from among the children of men."

 

Psalms 110-6: "He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries."

 

Psalms 137-9: "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

 

Psalms 144-1: "Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:"

 

Proverbs 23-13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."

 

Isiah 13-9: "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger,, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it."

 

Isaiah 13-16: "Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished."

 

Isaiah 63-3: "I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment."

 

Jeremiah 11-14: "Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble."

 

Ezekiel 5-10: "Therefore the fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers;"

 

Ezekiel 28-10: "Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD."

 

Zephaniah 1-2: "I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the LORD. I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea,"

 

Zecharaih 11-9: "I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another."

 

Matthew 25-41: "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

 

Mark 6-11: "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."

 

Revelation 19-11: "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war."

 

 

 

 

 

So, are there any nice peaceful harmless religions around these days?

[Guest MR. COOLING]

"90% of muslims don't go out and kill though. We are talking about RADICAL FUNDAMENTALIST MUSLIMS. Not your AVERAGE muslim. Just as it would be UNFAIR to claim that "christians bomb abortion clinics in the name of god" when in fact it is such a tiny portion."

 

The most popular babies name in the Middle East at the moment is Osama.

 

Nuff Said

 

W.W.I COOLING

[Guest TJH]

1. Lets see some quotes

Are you kidding me? Sometimes the Bible talks about nothing BUT blood and slaughter. Here's a smattering of advocation for violence (and believe me, this is a relatively small sampling):

 

Exodus 15-3: "The Lord is a man of war"

 

various Leviticus death sentences:

 

"For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."

 

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

 

"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."

 

"And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people."

 

"A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them."

 

"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire."

 

"Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him. And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin. And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death."

 

Numbers 1-51: "the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death."

 

Numbers 4-15: "they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die."

 

Numbers 4-20: "but they shall not go in to see when the holy things are covered, lest they die."

 

Numbers 11-1: "And when the people complained, it displeased the LORD: and the LORD heard it; and his anger was kindled; and the fire of the LORD burnt among them, and consumed them that were in the uttermost parts of the camp."

 

Numbers 15-32 to 15-36: "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

 

Numbers 23-23: "Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a young lion: he shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain."

 

Numbers 24-8: "God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows."

 

Deuteronomy 2-24: "And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain"

 

Deuteronomy 6-14: "Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you; (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth."

 

Deuteronomy 7-2 to 7-5: "And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them; Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.

 

Deuteronomy 13-5: "And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death;"

 

Deuteronomy 13-6 to 13-10: "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die;"

 

Deuteronomy 17-12: "And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel."

 

Deuteronomy 18-20: "But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die."

 

Deuteronomy 23-13: "And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies,"

 

Deuteronomy 22-23: "If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you."

 

Joshua 7-15: "he that is taken with the accursed thing shall be burnt with fire, he and all that he hath:"

 

Joshua 24-19: "Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins. If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you,"

 

First Samuel 6-19: "And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter."

 

Second Samuel 5-8: "And David said on that day, Whosoever getteth up to the gutter, and smiteth the Jebusites, and the lame and the blind that are hated of David's soul, he shall be chief and captain."

 

First Kings 20-35: "And a certain man of the sons of the prophets said unto his neighbour in the word of the LORD, Smite me, I pray thee. And the man refused to smite him. Then said he unto him, Because thou hast not obeyed the voice of the LORD, behold, as soon as thou art departed from me, a lion shall slay thee. And as soon as he was departed from him, a lion found him, and slew him."

 

Second Kings 2-23: " as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."

 

First Chronicles 13-9: "And when they came unto the threshingfloor of Chidon, Uzza put forth his hand to hold the ark; for the oxen stumbled. And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzza, and he smote him, because he put his hand to the ark: and there he died before God."

 

Second Chronicles 36-16: But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy. Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him that stooped for age: he gave them all into his hand."

 

Psalms 18-34: "He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms."

 

Psalms 21-9: "Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them. Their fruit shalt thou destroy from the earth, and their seed from among the children of men."

 

Psalms 110-6: "He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries."

 

Psalms 137-9: "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."

 

Psalms 144-1: "Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:"

 

Proverbs 23-13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."

 

Isiah 13-9: "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger,, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it."

 

Isaiah 13-16: "Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished."

 

Isaiah 63-3: "I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment."

 

Jeremiah 11-14: "Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble."

 

Ezekiel 5-10: "Therefore the fathers shall eat the sons in the midst of thee, and the sons shall eat their fathers;"

 

Ezekiel 28-10: "Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD."

 

Zephaniah 1-2: "I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the LORD. I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea,"

 

Zecharaih 11-9: "I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another."

 

Matthew 25-41: "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

 

Mark 6-11: "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city."

 

Revelation 19-11: "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war."

 

 

 

 

 

So, are there any nice peaceful harmless religions around these days?

Jingus Christ 1, TJH 0.

 

But I'm no fan of the Christian churches either. I find them very hypocritical.

And also, apart from the Klan (and didn't their leader just get thrown in jail?) no one actually, you know, listens to this crap.

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

Noooo, a lot of scary people listen to this crap. You'd be very surprised.

 

Also, to the guy who made the "Osama" comment: you're an idiot. Naming a kid "Osama" in the nation of Islam is like naming someone Steve or John over here.

 

This thread has been full of some of the most ignorant statements I've ever seen. It's pretty sweet.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Truth be told, all of the Muslims I know also happen to be the most peaceful and morally centred as well. It's ignorant to say that they still "Think it's the year 1200", and under no context should that line of thinking be acceptable. Ass.

That's because the Muslims who moved to the U.S. , Canada or any western nation are the ones that are peaceful. If the people you know still live in the middle-east I apologize, not every muslim in the middle-east is anti-american alot of the people might not be blowing people up, but how many of them have a problem if a jew, or western infidel is killed?

 

McPhisto do you really think Osama Bin Laden has nothing to do with Osama being the most popular name for muslims in the mideast.

[Guest Renegade]

Noooo, a lot of scary people listen to this crap. You'd be very surprised.

 

Also, to the guy who made the "Osama" comment: you're an idiot. Naming a kid "Osama" in the nation of Islam is like naming someone Steve or John over here.

 

This thread has been full of some of the most ignorant statements I've ever seen. It's pretty sweet.

Agreed

[Guest NoCalMike]

I apologize, not every muslim in the middle-east is anti-american alot of the people might not be blowing people up, but how many of them have a problem if a jew, or western infidel is killed

Ok well how many blood-thirsty americans care about arabs being killed over there? So it is really no different.

[Guest DrTom]

That's because the Muslims who moved to the U.S. , Canada or any western nation are the ones that are peaceful.

Generally, yes, because they've been assimilated into the culture. France has a huge problem, however, with Moslems keeping their own culture blatantly separate. England has a lesser problem with this, and I think it's rampant in one of the Scandanavian countries, as well. Basically, the Moslems there want to live like they're in the Middle East, instead of a country that harbors much different beliefs. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

 

People can try to defend the Muslim faith all they want, and even compare it to Christianity. Christianity certainly has a bloody history, and reading the Old Testament could give one the idea that genocide is a component of moral perfection. However, find a Christian nation that brutalizes and tortures women, represses outsiders and non-believers, openly wages war on any country with a different belief system, and refuses to see that an inflexible devotion to something written ages ago simply doesn't work in the modern era. You can find several Muslim nations like that, conveniently all within the Middle East. The behavior they routinely engage in is evil, plain and simple, and it's disheartening to see so many people rationalize that away with a parade of yes-buts.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

Critical differences in the devlopment of Christianity and Islam.

Islam was not subject to such mass warping by power-crazed monarchs as Christianity was(Henry VIII and the Reformation coming to mind). When a religion is so manifestly exposed as being controlled by man then some of its power will inevitably wane.

Secondly, and this is one that Americans also can never and will never get their heads around, World War One. Church-going in Europe dropped off on a massive scale following the slaughter of a generation of youth. How can people be expected to believe so literally and strongly(thus leading to extremist views) if God is seen to visit such destruction upon his people? With Europe being the power-base of Christianity, this virtually killed off its power. I always find it funny the way people disregard the impact of World War One on history. It was a war of destruction. The Middle East and the USA have not had true wars of destruction on a united level, so their respective religions have retained more power. However, it does irk me when I see someone defending the Koran and Islamic beliefs while ridiculing and deriding Christianity. To me, they are both piles of crap with unnatural expectations of human behaviour, and should both be treated equally as such.

[Guest Slapnuts00]

For the record I was referring to people in the middle east. American Muslims are much more peaceful. The main difference in religions is they have an Us againt Them mentality and act on it. Just about the entire middle east is viciously anti-American and anti-Israel. There is no denying that.

[Guest Espalda]

Islam is not nearly as unified a religious system as some people here claim it to be. To lump together the three major sects of Shi'ism (the Twelve-Imam, the Zaydis, and the Ismailis), the different Sunni schools (Hanifa, Shafi, Hanibal, Malik, etc.), and the mystic Sufi orders (Ahmadiyya, Qadariyya, Tijaniyya, etc.) into one body is akin to claiming that the Baptists, the Catholics, and the Branch Davidians are also exactly the same.

 

Furthermore, for everyone focused on the words of the Qur'an, be aware that it specifically states that this type of division is a sin. Muslims around the world, however, have divided themselves over issues of law, succession, and Allah's relationship with the universe.

 

"He decreed for you the same religion decreed for Noah, and what we inspired to you, and what we decreed for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: 'You shall uphold this one religion, and do not divide it.' (Qur'an 42:13)

 

The problem with Islam is that there is no real central authority like the Pope, so any fundamentalist leader can interprit bits of the Koran as he sees fit, with no one to say he is wrong.

 

The Imamate in the Shi'ite traditions is the political and religious leader of the Shi'ite sect. This person possess great power and influence. According to Shi'ite doctrine, the Imam must be a biological successor of Ali. The Imam is also sinless and infallible on all matters of Islamic doctrine and will intercede for Muslims in the afterlife.

 

For the Sunni Muslims rulership is through the Caliphate, the office of Muslim ruler who is considered the successor to Muhammad.

 

However, find a Christian nation that brutalizes and tortures women, represses outsiders and non-believers, openly wages war on any country with a different belief system, and refuses to see that an inflexible devotion to something written ages ago simply doesn't work in the modern era.

 

What about the 8,000 Muslims slaughtered in the Srebrenica massacre by the Serbian Orthodox in the name of Christianity? The Serbs also tortured, raped, and killed of many Muslim women and children during the conflict in Bosnia. Extreme fundamentalism in any form is dangerous.

 

Anyhow, if you want to see some of the beauty in Islam read the work of the thirteenth century Sufi poet, Jalal Al-Din Rumi.

[Guest Espalda]

Double post...my apologies...

[Guest EricMM]

What about the 8,000 Muslims slaughtered in the Srebrenica massacre by the Serbian Orthodox in the name of Christianity? The Serbs also tortured, raped, and killed of many Muslim women and children during the conflict in Bosnia. Extreme fundamentalism in any form is dangerous.

No one is denying that Christianity can't be warped for evil intent. That's just stupid.

 

The main issue that I and many others have with certain Moslems is that they're so bloody xenophobic. And they demand to adhere to their religion even when they are a distinct minority, and it would be unreasonable for the general populance to do so. For example, there was an Islamic woman on the news who was asking for 5 prayer periods for Islamic students in public schools. She said that Moslems were being oppressed and not allowed to pray the way their religion demanded. I'm sorry, but the public schools are no place for that kind of stuff. It's not like they can't have a holiday or two off, that would be fine. But to ask for 5 5 minute periods of the day (and the time between classes wouldn't suffice) is just not going to work out.

 

America is a melting pot. But you are going to have to change some, to live here. Or you will be ignored. The way so many cultures have learned. If you keep to yourselves and refuse to mingle, you will never have any sort of influence.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Guys it's simple.

 

Take out all those that believe differently than you and would cause an ideological conflict and you get peace.

[Guest Slapnuts00]

Espalda has an excellent point, that for years the different sects and countries were all warring with each other.

Now with Israel's precence, and US soldiers stations in Saudi Arabia, they've becomed unified to fight one cause and take out their tribal warlike agressions against Israel, the Us and democracy in general as their enemy.

It's a shame that some people villify the good guys while sympathizing with the enemy. THEY WANT TO KILL US. Until we go in there and start educating their children in tolerance and democracy, nothing will change. It's too late for the adults, but the children are currently being taught endless lies and hate towards Americans, Jews and democracy and have become brainwashed with this militant ideology where they become martyrs and rewarded in heaven for blowing themselves up to kill others. This shouldn't be a criticism on Islam, it's been proven to be practiced peacefully by educated and rational Americans, but the middle east fosters nothing but hate and radicalism in their schools and governments and it shouldn't be defended, it has to be stopped for the world's sake.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

From an outsiders perspective it seems like Christianity and Islam have taken opposing paths since the Crusades. Christianity has evolved, while Islam has been taken over by extremist and become more violent.

[Guest nWoCHRISnWo]

Although not exactly a great example of what all muslims are like, I go to a (high) school that is about 70% lebanese people (and about 99% of them are muslims). In complete honesty, I can say that these people are the absolute biggest pieces of shit I've ever met in my life. There are a few exceptions, but not much. You guys should have seen how happy they were and how funny it was to them after the Trade Center thing happened. And these are muslims who have lived in Canada for a long time, some of them since they were born.

 

Just wanted to say that because I always see people saying how great the muslim people they know are, but I'm always just boggled at these statements.