RVD to host Armageddon party at the WORLD

[Guest Samurai_Goat]

"you don't quit watching because the show is lackluster"

 

What? So you're saying that, if I really loved wrestling, I should enjoy this bastardized version of the sport with which I felt so much...cool stuff? That's kinda faulty logic there, at least in my opinion.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Which is exactly my point. To "marks" the cruiserweights aren't "high profile."

And who's fault is that?

[Guest EricMM]

They don't care how much someone weighs, this is my point: if the cruisers are put in matches and win, they will get MORE OVER than slow plodding peopel in the same matches because they are AMAZING. They literally amaze people when they take off. People can also get over by amazing feats of strength and violence, but many WWE superstars can't even achieve that. The flyers MORE EASILY achieve pops than anyone else, or have you forgotten Rey Mysterio Jr.

[Guest Cataclysm911]

Samurai_Goat: I'm saying if you really loved wrestling, you should never even consider to stop watching the programming, no matter how bad it gets. You should tell that to your townies who "used to go nuts over it"

 

BPS: I know it's the WWE's fault for people not liking the cruiserweights. I never said it wasn't. The WWE messes up a lot of things.

 

Eric MM: In "marks" eyes, Rey isn't a cruiserweight. He's an upper mid-carder. Which is why the cruiserweight title is beneath him, or so it would seem. For the cruiserweight division to be good, all the members have to be good. Does any "mark" actually think that Funaki or Crash could beat Mysterio?

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

I keep waiting for RVD to do something that'll really hook me, but he doesn't. I like the 5-Star, and I'm a fan of his spots outside the ring, his spinning legdrops, and some stuff like that.

 

Hate his kicks, hate his shoulder blocks, hate the Rolling Thunder, hate the fly kick off the top...the problem is, like Cataclysm said, there's no surprise in his matches--at least not the ones I've seen, and I only watch TV events. While it's true that all wrestlers follow a certain plan and build to certain spots, RVD's always feels like it's the same, week in, week out, with the exception being that he doesn't always go for the split-legged moonsault.

 

And his promos ARE awful. I know no one really points that out as his greatest strength, but man, so, so bad. The problem is that you can't put him with a manager, because he is, for all intents and purposes, a pretty regular looking guy, and he's a big time face. Why shouldn't he be able to talk?

 

Unfortunately, he can't be the "silent assassin" type that's worked for Hart and Benoit, because he doesn't really have much intensity. I love the gimmick matches I've seen with RVD, because he really seems to know how to get his head around a gimmick. But the RVD/HBK match on Raw was really, really bad, and just about everything I've seen him do that's not a gimmick match is predictable and dull. I like him. I want to like him. But he's just not that good.

 

That said, I do view him as more of a title threat than over half the Raw roster, which is a very sad state of affairs.

[Guest Samurai_Goat]

You've got to be kidding me, Cat. How long has it been since they've put on a real good show? If they start putting out a product that doesn't tickle my gag reflex, I'll start watching again. It's silly and pointless to be sitting in front of a television, whispering,"Well, it USED to be good."

[Guest EricMM]

But rey is CLEARLY wrestling the cruiser style. Just because Angle can make it look convincing doesn't mean it's not the cruiser style.

 

If only everyone would sell for every cruiser like that, where would the problem be?

[Guest Cataclysm911]

You've got to be kidding me, Cat. How long has it been since they've put on a real good show? If they start putting out a product that doesn't tickle my gag reflex, I'll start watching again. It's silly and pointless to be sitting in front of a television, whispering,"Well, it USED to be good."

You've got to be kidding me by saying you're a wrestling fan. Basically, what you're saying is that you will only watch wrestling when it's good? So, do you only like baseball when your team is winning, or do you just switch to the winning team each year?

 

Wrestlemania X-8 was a good show. SummerSlam was an amazing show. Had I just been a bandwagon jumper, I would've missed both.

 

Also, this should be said again:

 

I want to like him. But he's just not that good

[Guest Cataclysm911]

But rey is CLEARLY wrestling the cruiser style. Just because Angle can make it look convincing doesn't mean it's not the cruiser style.

 

If only everyone would sell for every cruiser like that, where would the problem be?

Well, there really wouldn't be a problem. Of course, there wouldn't be a cruiserweight division either. They would all be mid to upper mid carders.. like Rey.

 

That's what makes Angle so good.

[Guest EricMM]

You've got to be kidding me by saying your a wrestling fan. Basically, what you're saying is that you will only watch wrestling when it's good?

Oh my god. That's so dense. Just because we like something, doesn't mean we should put up with shit. It's been shit, it is shit, and I don't watch shit.

 

If that means I'm not a "real fan" than so what. I could EASILY say that you're not a real fan of "wrestling" if you're giving Vince your money for this crap. You're not buying wrestling specifically, you're buying whatever the hell vince feeds you. What a fucking Vince-Mark.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Screw the "wrestling" argument.

 

"wrestling" has never been the WWE's product anyway.

 

The point of the thread is that the person who the crowd has proven time and time again to want to cheer for most on the entire RAW show is sitting at the World for a ppv.

 

Again, it isn't about wrestling ability. It isn't about mic skills. It's about giving the crowd what they want for a change...not taking him off of a major show.

[Guest Cataclysm911]

You've got to be kidding me by saying your a wrestling fan. Basically, what you're saying is that you will only watch wrestling when it's good?

Oh my god. That's so dense. Just because we like something, doesn't mean we should put up with shit. It's been shit, it is shit, and I don't watch shit.

 

If that means I'm not a "real fan" than so what. I could EASILY say that you're not a real fan of "wrestling" if you're giving Vince your money for this crap. You're not buying wrestling specifically, you're buying whatever the hell vince feeds you. What a fucking Vince-Mark.

RAW & Smackdown doesn't cost money. When wrestling is good, you're buying what Vince is giving you. Your point is moot.

 

For Christs sake, wrestling is bad right now. I still watch it. If you don't watch it, I don't want to read your fucking opinion on a topic that you don't see first hand, so go the fuck away. If you're not watching the wrestling product, you shouldn't be frequenting wrestling forums that are about discussing the product.

 

That's common sense.

[Guest HartFan86]

All I have to say is to you inspring wrestlers out there:

 

Never do a frog splash on the bosses' daugther's girlfriend and have your leg across his thorat.

 

NEVER>

[Guest Celtic Jobber]

RVD should've been champion LAST YEAR. Now he's been buried so deeply by Triple H that he might as well call it a career.

[Guest EricMM]

But there's still no reason to give any sort of support including my own time, to a shoddy product. There's no reason for you to say someone isn't a real fan because they're tuning out of something that isn't good, or even acceptable.

 

As BPS said, it's about giving me what I want to see. They are not. I will not go out of my way to put WWE on a higher level than say, Time Squad on my TV list, certainly lower than say O'Reilly.

 

It's really the same thing that's been going on with the simpsons. I'm sure they're not getting the same ratings on Sunday night. Does that mean we're not real simpsons fans?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I'll try to refocus this again.

 

In it's most simple form:

 

WWE pushes hosses and Kliq.

 

Fans no like hosses and kliq.

 

Fans cheer for RVD more than hosses and kliq.

 

Hosses and Kliq on ppv.

 

RVD at World.

 

Discuss.

[Guest Cataclysm911]

It's really the same thing that's been going on with the simpsons. I'm sure they're not getting the same ratings on Sunday night. Does that mean we're not real simpsons fans?

Yes.

 

If you're a fan of something, you follow it. Otherwise, you're not a fan.. just an observer.

 

There are different degrees of fans. Of course, when you come onto a message forums that talks about nothing but wrestling and proceed to call yourself a fan of wrestling, what degree do you think that people are going to view it as?

 

Are you 13?

[Guest EricMM]

I already tried, but it DOESN'T MAKE SENSE (especially about the Kliq)

 

Hosses can be called larger than life, but what does the Kliq offer?

[Guest Cataclysm911]

I'll try to refocus this again.

 

In it's most simple form:

 

WWE pushes hosses and Kliq.

 

Fans no like hosses and kliq.

 

Fans cheer for RVD more than hosses and kliq.

 

Hosses and Kliq on ppv.

 

RVD at World.

 

Discuss.

Hogan was a hoss.. fans liked him. Brock is a hoss.

 

HBK & Triple H used to get praised.

 

Simply put: Vince fears change. He wants to go back to what worked in the past. That's all it easy. Eventually, something will work.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

You ignored the point again

[Guest Samurai_Goat]

Don't worry about this arguement. He's just gonna go on a "You're a fair weather friend" arguement over whatever we say. No matter how wrong we see his arguements, he's in a state of mind not to be receptive to our arguements. Note the only thing he's jumped on for me was the fact that the people I know no longer watch, as opposed to my little statement as to what might be so damageing about having a main event RVD, and he ignored my statement about the upper card being boring. I'm not going to risk my money on a product unless I have some idea that it's going to be ok, and the television product doesn't make me think that way. As for me not watching, in truth, I do watch the show occasionally, but after x number of HHH segments, I usually get bored and wander off.

[Guest Cataclysm911]

You ignored the point again

No, I didn't.

 

Vince doesn't want to use RVD because he is something new. Vince fears change, so he doesn't want to go that direction.

 

Are you illiterate?

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

Screw the "wrestling" argument.

 

"wrestling" has never been the WWE's product anyway.

 

The point of the thread is that the person who the crowd has proven time and time again to want to cheer for most on the entire RAW show is sitting at the World for a ppv.

 

Again, it isn't about wrestling ability. It isn't about mic skills. It's about giving the crowd what they want for a change...not taking him off of a major show.

It's stupid, I'll give you that. He's marketable even if he isn't very good, and it's clear that the fans are pissed off. Attendance has been dropping tremendously as we've all seen, and it doesn't show much sign of leaping back up.

 

However, what I'll say in response to that point is that if he isn't very good, I don't care about him being on my TV, because I don't go to live shows. I don't buy PPVs. I just watch it on TV.

 

The only people on Raw I actually enjoy watching are Jericho, Goldust, Booker, Christian, Richards, and Dreamer. The last two never get any opportunities, but they clearly bust their asses every time they're in the ring, and the first four are great, fun, witty tag teams that wrestle well to back it up.

 

So, I still hope for RVD, but in reality, he's just another one of the clunkers on Raw that don't do much for me.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Warning for flaming both me and Eric with the 13 year old comment.

 

If you can't discuss things without the wisecracks leave the conversation or be removed.

[Guest converge241]

hosting the Raw party?

 

*spide sense tingling*

I picture heats low ratings getting blamed on RVD

[Guest EricMM]

Vince being afraid of change may be the only answer.

 

But

 

I'm not afraid of change. I'm not afraid of Raymond, of MNF. So... what will it be vince?

[Guest Cataclysm911]

Don't worry about this arguement. He's just gonna go on a "You're a fair weather friend" arguement over whatever we say. No matter how wrong we see his arguements, he's in a state of mind not to be receptive to our arguements. Note the only thing he's jumped on for me was the fact that the people I know no longer watch, as opposed to my little statement as to what might be so damageing about having a main event RVD, and he ignored my statement about the upper card being boring. I'm not going to risk my money on a product unless I have some idea that it's going to be ok, and the television product doesn't make me think that way. As for me not watching, in truth, I do watch the show occasionally, but after x number of HHH segments, I usually get bored and wander off.

Actually, I just shrugged you off when I convinced myself that you're as bright as a yak. Either that or you're extremely young.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I know you made that post before you saw the warning so cool it now.

[Guest Cataclysm911]

Warning for flaming both me and Eric with the 13 year old comment.

 

If you can't discuss things without the wisecracks leave the conversation or be removed.

What are you going to fucking censor me for my fucking opinion? Fuck you then, and your holier than thou attitude.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

calling people dumber than a yak, too young to have an opinion and illiterate aren't opinions.

 

Spin it anyway you want.

 

But you won't be doing so on this forum.