A healthy-sized post on Grunge.

[Guest TheyCallMeMark]

I figured it's about time I started a thread about my favourite genre of music again. It's been over a year. I think I will start off by laying down the building blocks, the very foundation of this thread. Music in the eighties. It was finally time to see all the bands from the 60s and 70s really fade out and a new generation of rockers from their own loins be born.

 

It was fairly obvious that these guys had all been listening to their forefathers rock, and instead of a slow evolution towards the eighties, the shit just started happening. Abruptly all of these bands that were shockingly similar started at once. Ozzy, Van Halen et al all stayed strong but were slowly fading out. The whole metal genre tore up the underground scene, while the punks spent their whole lives trying to be The Clash. Flashy stadium rock lost all of the substance it had and just became powderpuff boys with guitars and Aerosmith riff books. Instead of rockers trying to create great, structured songs, they decided to take punk's vanilla and simple riffing, then shit on it's ethics by layering themselves in make-up and selling themselves to the industry. The classic rock band was killed by the hands of Def Leppard. The record industry was rolling in dough, loving this new species of music. They could pick up Johnny Powerchord and Bill Bassdrum then throw them into a band, get the Propaganda Machine rolling and get a platiunum record. Four bands, however, spearheaded a revolution.

 

Metallica got together. They had learned to appreciate Motorhead, Led Zepplin and Black Sabbath, taking anything they could fromt he sludgier side of rock. They played really fast. They yelled. The made alot of noise. And for whatever reason it caught on. They were the flagship for a new type of music, bands like Testament and MegaDeth following in their wake. Throughout the eighties Metallica would spawned one of the most popular genre's of music ever that would inspire shocking loyalty from its fans, and unwarranted amounts of criticizm from it's detractors.

 

U2 was another one of the bands. They made a couple records that sold really well. I never really got the deal with them, but I will gladly admit they were one of the nails in the coffin of eighties rock music. They had all this emotion and feeling in what they were playing and singing, bringing more than just sex, drugs and rock and roll to the table in their music. I think alot of people connected with it because the alternative at the time was... you know... "DR FEELGOOD! HE MAKES YOU FEEL FINE!" Artists had done it alot about love, and metaphorically in the past, but U2 really approached their inner feelings in a direct manner. That hadn't been done alot before.

 

Then there was a smaller band who was playing stuff that was even more off. They were pretty popular, too. They didn't define a genre, going where the music took them. The singer had a weird voice. The guitarist played weird rhythms and leads, they were doing everything differently. Jane's Addiction was more or less the first alternative band. Their music wasn't quite right for the time, though. They never really had a great record, or a bunch of great songs, they got cut short. The band had done little more than familiarize the market with alternative music.

 

And finally; on to the biggest band of the eighties. Some would say the biggest (and greatest) band ever. They gave the music industry a kick in the ass. They were a real band. They weren't prettyboys with guitars, they were assholes who were going to fucking scream and shred and break things. All the wimpy ass BUTT rock bands looked pale in comparison to the musically-rich GnR. Their power chords were suddenly not sounding so cool, and their mindless lyrics suddenly not being so entertaining. GnR exposed pretty much everything else going on in the eighties as the trite bullshit it was. And they let everyone know it. They basically took each part of past huge rock-bands formulas (Stones, Aerosmith, Van Halen, AC/DC) and mixing it into one fucking masterpiece of a band. They beat the shit out of everything for years, and then they were set in the ninties to become the greatest rockband to ever step foot in the garage.

 

And then a song started coming on the radio. It was called "Smells Like Teen Spirit", from some local Seattle band no one had heard of. It was a hit. A real big hit. And it was like a message right to Guns N Roses HQ. Suddenly, just like Guns N Roses had shut down the hair metal before it and rendered it uncool, Axl's angry cry against the world was obsolete. Nirvana had come.

 

In the late eighties, all the guys in the Seattle scene were getting frusterated. Jeff Ament, Stone Gossard and a couple of the guys from Mudhoney were in a band called Green River, getting nowhere fast. About the only band in the area with their shit together were the Melvins, but they weren't breaking big any time soon. They were good, but their style wasn't very cohesive with the other players, so everyone was still lost. Green River broke up, then things came together. The band Mudhoney started doing something, it was distorted. It had guitar solos. But they weren't regular guitar solos. Alot of them weren't just screeching noises. The sang about inane and silly shit. But the style they were playing; metal but not quite, was something everyone got with. Jerry Cantrell got drunk one night and Alice In Chains formed. Vedder moved up from California and Pearl Jam got together. Then Krist Noveliselic and Kurt Cobain got their drummer and cranked out Bleach. The gears were moving, but none of them were being marketed as the same genre. Alice was going under metal, but the fact they weren't what metalheads expected really stopped them from growing there, and what were Pearl Jam and Soundgarden gonna do? Call themselves rock, and get shut down by a GnR crowd? So the boys at Geffen pulled one out of their ass. They had gotten this band on contract, really good, called Nirvana. People were calling them the next Beatles. But they had no way to market it. This is where Jane's Addiction is key; they had gone under the monkier of "Alternative". Geffen took a chance and ran with that.

 

It paid off. Nirvana's Nevermind took over. GnR was old news. People wanted alternative. And so, in order to fill up the demand Pearl Jam, Alice In Chains and Soundgarden were all there. They were all marketed as alternative, and they sold like crazy. The Chili Peppers, though moderatley successful anyway got a sudden boost in popularity under the alternative heading (though it could be argued that Blood, Sugar, Sex, Magik sold better because it was just a better album). Stone Temple Pilots also road on these coat-tails to success. Basically, alot of great bands got to be great in the mainstream.

 

Just as suddenly as it started, the eighties music revolution died. Good riddiance, I say. The music had always been bullshit, and started to REALLY become bullshit in the end. Bands actually aped off of Ratt. FUCKING RATT! And all those awful ballads. God, I tremble just thinking about what kind of shit music we'd be listening to if Nirvana hadn't stopped the madness. I guess it couldn't be any worse than the shit music we're being exposed to since Nirvana did stop the madness, though. Cobain did effectivly kill the guitar solo's place in popular music. And like every punk revolution before it, it changed all the music happening into worthless power chord shit. But I guess that's the way the rock world works. You get great bands, then you get all the awful imitators, then another batch of great bands come and so on. Maybe it's a cycle. I hope we get a new great batch of bands soon, though. Because the only great bands left are "Jam" bands and they won't ever go mainstream.

 

I'm not sure what your responses are supposed to be, maybe you can share your opinion on any of the mentioned bands, talk about grunge, talk about modern music, berate me for anyone I left out, agree, disagree, correct me... I just thought I could start some conversation as well as write this out for myself.

[Guest redbaron51]

Few things

 

Alice in Chains were never grunge, just got labelled it because Grunge was popular at the time.

 

Two: Nirvana did some good stuff in destroying bands like Ratt and Motley Crue, and especially the most loathed band of all CINDERELLA!!.

 

Now, I think its going to be a while for a new wave of sound is going to occur, before it fades out in a few months then something else occurs

[Guest TheyCallMeMark]

Alice in Chains were never grunge, just got labelled it because Grunge was popular at the time

 

They actually marketed themselves as alternative to sell (which they did). They might have gone back to metal now, but I know when Nirvana first broke they tried to hop on that bandwagon.

[Guest red_file]

Interesting. Quite interesting.

 

I've always wondered if there was actually a division between "alternative" music and "grunge" music. Is there an appreciable difference between the two? Also, was "grunge" an aesthetic, a style, a period, a movement? Hard to really pin down.

 

And then, of course, you could always argue that alternative music didn't do much to change the about of crap music on the radio; it only made it sound different. When the alternative bands broke, record companies signed a lot of alternative sounding imitators, just like they did in the 80s with the hair bands; in the 70s with the Zepp imitators; in the late 60s with the folkies and psychedelic bands; in the late 50s/early 60s with British bands; and back and back and back. Often grunge is cited as a purge of all that was bad in the music industry, when it really did nothing of the sort.

 

And what of staying power? Alternative music broke in early '92 and was upstaged by gangsta rap by the end of '92. I remember reading articles in '94/'95 that were again bemoaning the state of music (I remember some blame being heaped upon Counting Crows for killing grunge; that was never completely explained to my satisfaction).

 

I don't know. Grunge/Alternative is very much like the punk movement in the late 70s/early 80s. It was necessary because of rock music becoming a bloated parody of itself, and then disappeared once the "sins" of the mainstream were revealed. Kinda like satire. It left a lasting influence, but was not, in and of itself, that noteworthy.

 

But then I didn't like grunge, so perhaps my view is skewed.

[Guest Kinetic]

This seems to be some sort of abbreviated history of rock from 1980-1994. The music that actually led to and had any bearing on the creation and popularization of grunge was all independent stuff, like Black Flag, Dinosaur Jr., the Minutemen, Pixies, and especially Sonic Youth. Jane's Addiction was a pale shadow of all of that, and a pretty mediocre band to boot. Their actual influence on Nirvana is negligible and I've no doubt that grunge would have reached the top of the pops regardless of whether or not Dave Navarro ever learned to play a Zeppelin riff. You're right in inferring that grunge became popular as a reaction to the terrible music that dominated airwaves in the late 80s and early 90s, but the formation of a vast independent music underground community is what ultimately allowed for that to happen (and had dozens of soundalikes copping Cobain's anguish within the month). I'd suggest the superlative Our Band Could Be Your Life by Michael Azerrad, which covers all of that with in-depth profiles of several bands, all the while chronicling the slow changes in the music industry that eventually led to grunge's ascension to power.

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

Jeff Ament, Stone Gossard and a couple of the guys from Mudhoney were in a band called Green River, getting nowhere fast. About the only band in the area with their shit together were the Melvins, but they weren't breaking big any time soon. They were good, but their style wasn't very cohesive with the other players, so everyone was still lost. Green River broke up, then things came together. The band Mudhoney started doing something, it was distorted. It had guitar solos. But they weren't regular guitar solos. Alot of them weren't just screeching noises. The sang about inane and silly shit. But the style they were playing; metal but not quite, was something everyone got with. Jerry Cantrell got drunk one night and Alice In Chains formed. Vedder moved up from California and Pearl Jam got together

I'm surprised you didn't mention Mother Love Bone and/or Temple of the Dog, since it goes:

 

Green River breakup -> Mother Love Bone formed -> Andrew Wood's death -> Temple of the Dog

 

Which is important since it hooked up Vedder with McCready, Ament, and Gossard, giving birth to PJ, the only one of the "main" groups still together.

[B. Brian Brunzell 0]

I'd say that U2, not Guns N' Roses, was the biggest band of the 80's. Now, back to the topic.

 

I REALLY wish Andy Wood hadn't OD'd in 1990. Mother Love Bone was supposed to be the band that broke it open for the Seattle scene, but that came crashing down when Andy died. Although, in a weird twist of fate, his death did open the door for Pearl Jam to come together, and they're one of my all-time favorite acts.

 

But overall, Soundgarden > All other Seattle bands

[Guest Kinetic]

The impression I get is that Mother Love Bone was more in the vein of a Seattle-ized hair metal band, which wouldn't have done anyone any good. And while it's strictly a matter of opinion, Nirvana > Soundgarden. Chris Cornell has an impressive vocal range, but precious little to say at any stage of his career. Superunknown, their best album, was still a bit too bloated and mired in the classic rock-isms that grunge (and punk before it) was supposed to have rendered obsolete.

[Guest Incandenza]

No, Mudhoney > all other "grunge" bands.

[Guest TheyCallMeMark]

I didn't mention either Mother Love Bone or Temple of the Dog because since I didn't think they were relevant. MLB wasn't an alt band, and Temple of the Dog was a one shot deal. I really didn't think the progression of Ament was important after Mudhoney.

 

And Kinetic, the reason I actually mentioned Jane's Addiction is because they were more than an underground band. They got some actually exposure to the market, and henced exposed the style to the market. Those other bands, while indeed influencing the grunge bands more than Jane's Addiction had little or nothing to do with grunge being marketable.

 

It's a debatable point, but I think I'm right, though I agree with your assesment, too.

 

I've always wondered if there was actually a division between "alternative" music and "grunge" music. Is there an appreciable difference between the two? Also, was "grunge" an aesthetic, a style, a period, a movement? Hard to really pin down.

 

I don't really know what the official defintion is, but I use it to refer to the alternative music permeating the airwaves through the mid-ninties, mostly Seattle bands but I throw the tag at RHCP and STP sometimes, too.

 

And yeah, grunge was just the punk movement again. Temporary fix to a permanent problem (the music industries cloning device). Except I like to think the musical output was way better, and that's why I am down with it. Even though it killed one of my favourite parts of rock (the guitar solo) like I read in one magazine article "kids today might not know great soloing, but they don't know bad soloing, either" so all sins are forgiven, in that respect.

[B. Brian Brunzell 0]

No, Mudhoney > all other "grunge" bands.

See, I have to say Melvins > Mudhoney

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I'll still take Alice in Chains over every other band to come out of Seattle that I've heard based on Staley's vocals alone. The fact that the rest of the band is fucking awesome just makes me love them more.

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

**with Agent**

 

Grunge was definitely just a rebirth of the punk movement, so I agree with TheyCallMeMark on this one. Temporary solution to a permanent problem (bad music/imitators crowding the airwaves).

 

I think it's time for Shadows Fall to kick some mainstream ass. Mark my words, Shadows Fall will reach Metallica-like levels of popularity through touring, great tunes, a hardcore fanbase, and word-of-mouth advertising for their albums.

[Guest saturnmark4life]

I don't really like grunge at all (as in AIC, nirvana etc) but i LOVE melvins and soundgarden, for what that's worth. (nothing)

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

The impression I get is that Mother Love Bone was more in the vein of a Seattle-ized hair metal band, which wouldn't have done anyone any good.

From what I've read/heard, I agree w/ that. Wood was big on becoming a glam rock star.

 

I didn't mention either Mother Love Bone or Temple of the Dog because since I didn't think they were relevant. MLB wasn't an alt band, and Temple of the Dog was a one shot deal.

Well, as I said, they were important only in that PJ rose from the ashes. You didn't have to go into great detail on MLB or TOTD, but just mention them in passing as giving birth to PJ.

[Guest godthedog]

an article that mentions jane's addiction as the first alternative band, & no mention of the pixies anywhere? blasphemy!

[B. Brian Brunzell 0]

an article that mentions jane's addiction as the first alternative band, & no mention of the pixies anywhere? blasphemy!

No mention of The Cure either. Blasphemy x2.