The Onion Article

[Guest Brian]

No less, I didn't even post my opinions but the truth. The laws were written in a totally different day and age. And it has yet to be upheld in a supreme court, which the rest of the original Bill of Right has.

 

What do morals even have to do with using a gun? Are you making an ethical choice when you decide to shoot someone? That killing is right?

[Guest EricMM]

But Dopey that same emotional bind would occour whether the Americans were armed or not. But any US Militia would be owned by a serious US Army effort. It's just not conceivable, and it would never happen, but it would NOT be like the revolutionary war.

[Guest DrTom]

Damn, this turned into a hot-button issue quickly.

 

I dislike the NRA because they take idiotic stands on many things. That said, I think the right of Americans to own firearms should be maintained. It shouldn't be an absolute right; no one needs a machine gun or assault rifle to defend themselves and their homes, for example, and I think firearms training should be mandatory.

 

In states and counties where concealed-carry laws are in place, crime rates tend to be lower across the board. As a criminal, you never know if a potential victim is packing or not. And if they are, they might have a .45, which rather trumps your Saturday Night special bought in an alley somewhere.

 

In Britain, gun ownership by the citizens was outlawed, and the guns were ordered turned in. In the next year, violent crime went up 50%, and violent crime commited with a gun went up 90%. Criminals can still get the guns, so taking them away from the common people does nothing except render your citizens defenseless. And defenseless is one thing we certainly don't need to be in this day and age.

[Guest bob_barron]

About the second amendment- I'm kind of on the fence about it.

 

On one hand citizens should be allowed to defend themselves in the thread of great danger but on the other hand- what about people who own a gun who just one day have a really bad day and take out their aggressions with their gun. It happened in my family once so I probably have a bit of an emotional attachment.

 

My one fear of taking out the 2nd amendment is that then the people who want the guns and have the power to get them will probably not be people who should own a gun in the first place.

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

I don't mind keeping it at all (hell, I'm getting a concealed weapons permit as soon as I'm eligible for one, don't ask), I just don't like when the defenses for it are asinine like MOST of those given so far.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

if my defense of it is bad, what is yours?

 

--Rob

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

I just said I don't mind keeping it, so why should I defend it? There's just a difference between the defense that DrTom gave and your assertion that we need guns because we beat the British 222 years ago.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

ahem, my reason was I want to protect myself. How about reading the whole thread before commenting next time.

 

--Rob

[Guest Dopey]

Real quick. The right to bear arms was something that the founding fathers knew would insure the threat to those who govern that the people would not be pathetic sheep to shear and sod- well you get the point.

 

Presfields book, 'Gates Of Fire' is something to look into. The freedom of people to govern themselves. NO dictator, king...ect.

 

Hence the 'Don't Tread on Us', motto. When a government becomes too oppresive, you need to Revolt. You can't do that with wicker-baskets and bubble gum.

[Guest DrTom]

When a government becomes too oppresive, you need to Revolt.

I understand that, but come on. The citizens would have guns; the government would have tanks, bombs, attack helicopters, fighter jets, and just more guns. It wouldn't even be close. That argument is very dated, though I think there are much better ones extant for keeping the right to bear arms intact.

[Guest Dopey]

When a government becomes too oppresive, you need to Revolt.

I understand that, but come on. The citizens would have guns; the government would have tanks, bombs, attack helicopters, fighter jets, and just more guns. It wouldn't even be close. That argument is very dated, though I think there are much better ones extant for keeping the right to bear arms intact.

Dr. Tom, I know that you know that it's all about Fear, Intimidation, and Disinformation. These are and always will be the techniques of those in power.

There is something very big that is coming. It's not just the left-wing liberals anymore, it is something that is a far greater threat to our American way of life.

THE U.N..

 

The push to unite the world under one banner. It may sound funny to you now, but it won't be in 50 years. We are going to see a push for this, heck we are already seeing it now. The U.N. is going to push for the whole world to be at least a semi-socalist/communist state. Yes, the Big-Brother push.

Hence, the quickest way to surpress our freedoms is two fold. One, take away our abillity to fight against the powers of oppresion (i.e. take away our weapons and our voice.). Two, do it in way that makes you not only give away your rights, but makes you WILLING to do it.

 

FEAR, INTIMIDATION, DISINFORMATION.

 

FEAR!!! "This is CNN/ABC/NBC/CBS/FOX news, today in Columbine Co..." Night after night, day after day, the constant steady drip of 'guns are bad'.

 

INTIMIDATION!!! "Today Congress is pushing the Brady Act..." Taking away certain types of fire arms, ammunition, slowly one at a time. "If you are caught with...

 

DISINFORMATION!!! "Is that really what the 2nd amendment was trying to say?" Doubt. Doubt. Doubt. They didn't want us to all have guns. Are you sure that's what it means....

 

Use the same tactics against freedom of speech.

 

FEAR!!! "The Taliband and the Christian right are the same thing." "All religious fanatics preach Hate against the homosexuals..."

 

INTIMIDATION!!! "Quit preaching that Christianity is the only way!!! You need to be TOLERANT." "What the bible says I'm going to hell if I'm gay? Your not being Politically Correct!!! You need to take a sensitivity trainning course, or you're not going to be able to go to this school."

 

DISINFORMATION!!! "I heard that Timothy McViegh had connections to the Taliband." "Are not the KKK Christians?"

 

Yes, the three things that are at the top of the list to go are Guns, God, Free Speech.

All three of these pose a great threat to the New World Oder. The U.N.'s humanist new world philosophy. You can't effectivly surpress/brainwash a people when they posses these three things.

 

Have you seen the anti-smoking propaganda campaign!!! Perfect example. Take one habit/behavior and label it evil and hammer it! 50 years ago you would have never, ever!!! seen these militant anti-smoking propaganda adds.

What's the next behavior their going to hammer??? After that, which group of people?

 

It's the old ancient chinese philosophy of the dripping water. Slow, methodical, constant... Start small, but slowly build...

 

It is only a matter of time until we see a major lock-down on Guns, God, Free Speech.

 

The WAR ON TERROR, a war which can never, ever, ever, be won. Has now started an irreversable trend down the prim-rose path to loss of freedoms. The new American SS/KGB will not be satisfied with just taping your phones, holding 'prisoners' for indefinate periods of time without due process...

 

So in the end, Dr. Tom they won't need tanks, bombs, attack helicopters, fighter jets and more guns... They already have the best weapons they could use, Fear, Intimidation, Disinformation.

BIG SCARE!!! Take away some freedom. BIG SCARE!!! Take away some freedom...and so on and so on... It's all for your good anyway!!!

[Guest DrTom]

While I'm not a big fan of the UN by any means, there's no way what you propose would happen. Way too many countries would be concerned about giving up their sovereignty, their cultural identities, etc. Some of the thigns you mentioned have a ring of truth to them, but applying them to a conspiracy theory like this just doesn't make any sense.

[Guest EricMM]

Post-whore much Tom?

[Guest DrTom]

That was my initial reaction, so I ran with it until I could formulate something else.

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

Is it just me, or does Dopey's post read like some old 50s anti-Communism propaganda poster? You know, the kinds that said that only good, democracy-loving people went to church, and if you didn't, you were evil and a Communist?

 

I actually read a little illustrated summary of the book of Revelation made in the early 60s, and they pretty much blamed everything on Communists, not the Antichrist. Enlightening reading, to be sure.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

I don't know Kotz, I do believe there is an exsistance of a New World Order. Why else would we keep going towards a World Governemnt. We should get out of the UN now. I read a book on the NWO and after doing so, I cannot rule it out. Anyhow it was called "The Unseen Hand" by A. Ralph Epperson .

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=glance&s=books

 

Check it out, it's always good to read both sides of the story. I try to.

 

--Rob

[Guest EricMM]

Way to destroy me credibility, Tom. What is this disinformation?

 

"I did not have two posts, I have one post. I have ALWAYS had one post."

 

The New World Order is one of the greatest farces over. Someone dig up that conspiracy theory thread from a while back, it was funny

[Guest Dopey]

Way to destroy me credibility, Tom. What is this disinformation?

 

"I did not have two posts, I have one post. I have ALWAYS had one post."

 

The New World Order is one of the greatest farces over. Someone dig up that conspiracy theory thread from a while back, it was funny

There may not ever be a New World Order per ce. However, there will be an attempt at a One World type of government. It will not last for long though. The Russians will break from it and so will the Chinese. Because the Russians will invade Israel someday. And there will come an army of 200,000,000 men across the Euphrates river and rush into Israel.

 

You will not believe this because this information comes from the Bible. And since I not sure you're a Christian I say this. If you are a Christian you still might not believe this because you may not trust the Bible. Either way, unless you are a Christian and you trust the Word of God, you will not believe the statement above.

 

No matter what you or I believe, the drive for a one-world government will go on.

[Guest So what? I liked bubble boy]

Way to destroy me credibility, Tom.  What is this disinformation?

 

"I did not have two posts, I have one post.  I have ALWAYS had one post."

 

The New World Order is one of the greatest farces over.  Someone dig up that conspiracy theory thread from a while back, it was funny

There may not ever be a New World Order per ce. However, there will be an attempt at a One World type of government. It will not last for long though. The Russians will break from it and so will the Chinese. Because the Russians will invade Israel someday. And there will come an army of 200,000,000 men across the Euphrates river and rush into Israel.

 

You will not believe this because this information comes from the Bible. And since I not sure you're a Christian I say this. If you are a Christian you still might not believe this because you may not trust the Bible. Either way, unless you are a Christian and you trust the Word of God, you will not believe the statement above.

 

No matter what you or I believe, the drive for a one-world government will go on.

STAMPED AND DELIVERED FRESH!!!!!

[Guest DrTom]

Is it just me, or does Dopey's post read like some old 50s anti-Communism propaganda poster?

In a way, it does. It actually disturbs me that he seems to agree with me so often.

[Guest DrTom]

Way to destroy me credibility, Tom. What is this disinformation?

 

"I did not have two posts, I have one post. I have ALWAYS had one post."

Hey, I'm not the one who deleted it. Lemme 'lone. :-P

 

And yes, the NWO is a perpetual farce, powered by conspiracy theorists and based on bad information, lies, distortions of fact, and incorrect conclusions. It's not surprising that the unsteadier element of the population seems to drink it up like it were gospel.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

Way to destroy me credibility, Tom.  What is this disinformation?

 

"I did not have two posts, I have one post.  I have ALWAYS had one post."

 

The New World Order is one of the greatest farces over.  Someone dig up that conspiracy theory thread from a while back, it was funny

There may not ever be a New World Order per ce. However, there will be an attempt at a One World type of government. It will not last for long though. The Russians will break from it and so will the Chinese. Because the Russians will invade Israel someday. And there will come an army of 200,000,000 men across the Euphrates river and rush into Israel.

 

You will not believe this because this information comes from the Bible. And since I not sure you're a Christian I say this. If you are a Christian you still might not believe this because you may not trust the Bible. Either way, unless you are a Christian and you trust the Word of God, you will not believe the statement above.

 

No matter what you or I believe, the drive for a one-world government will go on.

I'm sorry, can you clue me in? Where does it say all this in the bible?

 

--Rob

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I'd actually like to see some verse that says this as well. From the sounds of things it's probably in Revelations, what with the fantastic numbers and prophecies of great wars, but I don't remember reading it.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

I don't think it's in Revelations. I could be wrong though, but I don't think so.

 

--Rob

[Guest Dopey]

I'm sorry, can you clue me in? Where does it say all this in the bible?

 

--Rob

Hold one, let me get my Bible. Be back in a few minutes.

[Guest Dopey]

Push for the one-world government. Daniel 2:31-45, 7:19-27 Revelation 13

 

Russians attack Israel. Ezekiel 38 Daniel 11:40-45

 

200,000,000 man army. The 'kings from the east'... Rev. 9:13-19, 16:12

 

 

This is quick and dirty. There is a whole lot more to eschatology but for right now this will have to do. A cool little book that's been around for a long time is 'The Late Great Planet Earth' by Hal Lindsey. I don't agree with everything he says on prophecy but he's in the ballpark.

 

Ezekiel 38 is awesome. Daniel talks about the 4 kingdoms, Babylon, Medo-Persian,Greek, and Roman. And how in the last days the Roman empire will basically rise again. Not as strong as the first time but the same principal (a one-world type of government.) Ref. that with Rev. 13 and you get the picture.

And the army from the east? Sorry gotta go with China there. Maybe in league with India or...the whole of asia.

 

Anyway it's late and I got to go to sleep.

 

God Bless, Dopey.

[Guest Brian]

I've been reading cuts of revelations and the infancy gospels for my humanities class. The stuff that didn't make the edition of the bible is sort of freaky. And Jesus pushing a kid off a building and making someone blind. Priceless.

[Guest Dopey]

I've been reading cuts of revelations and the infancy gospels for my humanities class. The stuff that didn't make the edition of the bible is sort of freaky. And Jesus pushing a kid off a building and making someone blind. Priceless.

That's why the boys at the Council of Nicea (A.D. 325), when they applied the 5 principles that guided the recognition and collection of the true divinely inspired books read the faux gospel of Thomas and such books, laughed and chucked them out on their ears!!!

[Guest RobJohnstone]

Push for the one-world government.  Daniel 2:31-45, 7:19-27  Revelation 13

 

Russians attack Israel.  Ezekiel 38  Daniel 11:40-45

 

200,000,000 man army.  The 'kings from the east'... Rev. 9:13-19, 16:12

 

 

This is quick and dirty.  There is a whole lot more to eschatology but for right now this will have to do.  A cool little book that's been around for a long time is 'The Late Great Planet Earth' by Hal Lindsey.  I don't agree with everything he says on prophecy but he's in the ballpark.

 

Ezekiel 38 is awesome.  Daniel talks about the 4 kingdoms, Babylon, Medo-Persian,Greek, and Roman.  And how in the last days the Roman empire will basically rise again.  Not as strong as the first time but the same principal (a one-world type of government.)  Ref. that with Rev. 13 and you get the picture.

And the army from the east?  Sorry gotta go with China there.  Maybe in league with India or...the whole of asia.

 

Anyway it's late and I got to go to sleep.

 

God Bless, Dopey.

sorry dude, I do not think that is all correct. Daniel 2 talks about 5 empires. The 5th is not the return of the romans but a new one. It is the feet made of partly clay and partly iron. On the feet are 10 toes, those toes represent 10 kings of this new empire, just as Revelations says.

 

--Rob

[Guest Dopey]

sorry dude, I do not think that is all correct. Daniel 2 talks about 5 empires. The 5th is not the return of the romans but a new one. It is the feet made of partly clay and partly iron. On the feet are 10 toes, those toes represent 10 kings of this new empire, just as Revelations says.

 

--Rob

Brother Rob, I hear you bro. I think we are seeing the samething but wording it different. Whether you want to call it the Revamped Roman empire or a new evil empire that sprouts from the loins an old one, the principal is the same. A government that is evil and is trying to encompase the whole world. Much like I believe that the U.N. is trying to push.

Also, my brother was reading somewhere that the U.N. is trying to make plans to someday classify the world into 10 <--- Super-states. Hmmmm??? I wonder what that sounds like? Maybe the 10 horns of the beast? I'm not sure on this one but it is interesting. I know for a long time many people have held that the 10 horns of the beast is the European commonmarket. Once again, it's hard to be too dogmatic when speaking about prophecy.

 

Gotta run. God Bless you brother.