(Observer) WrestleMania news/ratings notes

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Fuck Goldberg. Here's a guy who has no respect for the business and prematurely ended the career of a wrestling icon (I don't like Bret at all, but I have to admit he's well-known) and you guys think they ought to bring him in full time?

 

Bah. I'd sooner see a Randy Savage Nostalgia Run or something equally bad before I saw the return of Goldberg.

[Guest NoCalMike]

I guess we have to just speculate on what Vince wants out of this. For sure this would spike a buy rate, but if the plan is indeed for 2 appearances, I am not sure what it will accomplish. Will Rock or Austin or whoever, be that much of a bigger star if they beat Goldberg? Do people even care about Goldberg anymore? How does signing Goldberg address any current problems in the WWE besides a ratings increase for a 2-week period and maybe a higher buyrate for 1 or 2 ppvs?

[Guest EternallyLazy]

How does signing Goldberg address any current problems in the WWE besides a ratings increase for a 2-week period and maybe a higher buyrate for 1 or 2 ppvs?

We're not talking about just a buyrate here... we're talking about selling tickets to WrestleMania in SafeCo Field, and I think a Rock/Goldberg match would draw more people than Lesnar/Angle. And even that might now work. Only time will tell

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

I think WrestleMania will kind of sell itself. They drew good crowds two years in a row, and I think the last one was pretty successful even if it felt like The World's Largest Raw instead of a PPV. Still, many people with visions of Rock/Hogan in their heads and thinking "what's next?" will buy in before any matches are announced.

 

The announcement oif Rock/Goldberg will drop when the aura of "Ooh, another WM" has stopped selling tickets and they need to start revealing a card to fill up the rest of the seats.

[Guest nikowwf]

Bringing in Goldberg for Backlash and Judgment Day to get two big buyrates is not a bad idea...not at all.

 

It also gets more casual fans watching....even if Goldberg doesn't (and won't - its not like he will give them a choice in my opinion) put someone over. You can put some great matches on the undercard, and hopefully the new people watching enjoy those and come back.

 

niko

[Guest ManKinnd]

If Rock/Goldberg is half as emotional and exciting as Rock/Hogan, I'm there.

[Guest Mad Dog]

"Fuck Goldberg. Here's a guy who has no respect for the business and prematurely ended the career of a wrestling icon (I don't like Bret at all, but I have to admit he's well-known) and you guys think they ought to bring him in full time?"

 

It was as much Bret's fault as it was Goldberg's. And when it happened Bret probably would've been ok if he wouldn't have wrestled for 2 weeks after that and made it worse.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

I think WrestleMania will kind of sell itself.

I've gotta dissagree there. The idea of WrestleMania didn't sell back in 91 for WrestleMania 7 when they had to move it to a smaller arena. But who knows... I didnt think the Rumble would sell out this quickly so you never know

[Guest Mole]

I think WrestleMania will kind of sell itself.

I've gotta dissagree there. The idea of WrestleMania didn't sell back in 91 for WrestleMania 7 when they had to move it to a smaller arena. But who knows... I didnt think the Rumble would sell out this quickly so you never know

Are you kidding me? Wrestlemania will totally sell just because it was Wrestlemania. Casual fans will go see WM just because it is WM. Hardcore fans will go just because it is WM.

 

You kind of answered your own question about WM. Royal Rumble sold out because it is Royal Rumble. All wrestling fans know that RR is a big deal, so they will go see it. Unless people are all hot about seeing Triple-Juice against Steiner...

 

Anyway, Vince signing Goldberg is good idea only for one reason. If Goldberg is willing to job to someone. I don't think Goldberg should fight the Rock, he should face someone else. If anyone, it should be Jericho. Jericho could talk about WCW, and how he used to run from him there. And now Goldberg can't run anymore. Or something like that.

 

That will never happen, but whatever, that is what I would do.

 

Basically, Angle/Lesnar can draw for a WrestleMania main event. Well, if it doesn't draw, then there is something wrong with the wrestling fan base of today. The potential of seeing a great match, between two former amateur wrestling champions, should draw a crowd. IMHO.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

I think WrestleMania will kind of sell itself.

I've gotta dissagree there. The idea of WrestleMania didn't sell back in 91 for WrestleMania 7 when they had to move it to a smaller arena. But who knows... I didnt think the Rumble would sell out this quickly so you never know

Are you kidding me? Wrestlemania will totally sell just because it was Wrestlemania.

WrestleMania 7 and 9

 

I rest my case

[Guest Mole]

I think WrestleMania will kind of sell itself.

I've gotta dissagree there. The idea of WrestleMania didn't sell back in 91 for WrestleMania 7 when they had to move it to a smaller arena. But who knows... I didnt think the Rumble would sell out this quickly so you never know

Are you kidding me? Wrestlemania will totally sell just because it was Wrestlemania.

WrestleMania 7 and 9

 

I rest my case

Actually, I don't know this for a fact, but WM 9 did pretty well selling ticket wise.

 

WM 7 didn't do well, no it didn't. However, who was in the main event? Hogan vs Sgt. Slaut. How many times was Hogan in the main event of a WM prior to this? 6 times. He would of been in the Main Event to WM 4, but he was off filming a movie. People were just tired of seeing Hogan in the main event, it has been played.

 

I will guarantee that WM will do well selling tickets. Angle/Lesnar will draw well. If not just for that match, but other matches on the undercard. If Vince doesn't sign Goldberg, he will still pull out all the stops. He knows that WM is his baby, and he won't let his baby go down the hill. You will never see another WM 9 again. Never ever. Especially now, seeing the best talent ever in North America is under one fed.

 

Just watch, you'll see.

[Guest Brian]

Different days and different times. A larger audience to play to and a boom not too far in the past.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

He knows that WM is his baby, and he won't let his baby go down the hill. You will never see another WM 9 again. Never ever.

Someone here was mentioning that WM15 was probably the worst actually, though.

 

I think the past WM always is rather important, though.

 

WM14 was considered so great that they probably sold quite a few WM15 tickets from the WM name alone.

 

WMs 11 and 15 came kinda close to bombing out, and the years after both shows were held in the rather small Anaheim Pond. 16 is remembered as a good show with a slightly lousy finish, and 17 probably sold tickets pretty well, but became a HOLY SHIT SIZED CROWD when the massive card was announced.

 

People remember 17 so well that when 18 is announced they immediately sell a good deal of tickets of the name and memory, and when Rock/Hogan is announced the place reaches sellout status.

 

Again, X8 is probably the second best PPV they did this year (next to SummerSlam,) and Rock/Hogan is remembered so well they'll do good business in January. Somewhere in Feb the Goldberg thing is let slip and they fill the rest of the house.

 

Pretty easy, no?

[Guest Nevermortal]

WM 15 was actually one of the worst WM's in my opinion. Nothing was memorable except for the Main Event, and even that can't hold a candle to their far superior match at WM X-7.

[Guest Mole]

Yes, WM 15 was a terrible PPV. But who was booking back then? It was everyone's favorite writer, Vince Russo. I don't think Russo had more than ONE good PPV. The only PPV that was good under his reign (if my memory serves me correct) is SummerSlam.

 

Russo was more known for his storylines, not quality of wrestling, as everyone knows. WM15 looked good on paper, but was shitty. Austin/Rock didn't even deliever, which they usually do.

 

So, WM9 and WM 15 are the worst PPVs. 9 is worst, IMHO.

[Guest NoSelfWorth]

WM9 was hideous.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Yes, WM 15 was a terrible PPV. But who was booking back then? It was everyone's favorite writer, Vince Russo. I don't think Russo had more than ONE good PPV. The only PPV that was good under his reign (if my memory serves me correct) is SummerSlam.

 

Russo was more known for his storylines, not quality of wrestling, as everyone knows. WM15 looked good on paper, but was shitty. Austin/Rock didn't even deliever, which they usually do.

 

So, WM9 and WM 15 are the worst PPVs. 9 is worst, IMHO.

Russo booked SummerSlam 97-98, Survivor Series 97, Canadian Stampede: IYH, Ground Zero: IYH, Final Four: IYH, WrestleMania XIV, KOTR 98, BreakDown: IYH, and a bunch more mediocre to great PPV's. But remember he booked from 97 to 99 the law of averages says he HAS to have a few good ones.

[Guest Mole]

Yes, WM 15 was a terrible PPV. But who was booking back then? It was everyone's favorite writer, Vince Russo. I don't think Russo had more than ONE good PPV. The only PPV that was good under his reign (if my memory serves me correct) is SummerSlam.

 

Russo was more known for his storylines, not quality of wrestling, as everyone knows. WM15 looked good on paper, but was shitty. Austin/Rock didn't even deliever, which they usually do.

 

So, WM9 and WM 15 are the worst PPVs. 9 is worst, IMHO.

Russo booked SummerSlam 97-98, Survivor Series 97, Canadian Stampede: IYH, Ground Zero: IYH, Final Four: IYH, WrestleMania XIV, KOTR 98, BreakDown: IYH, and a bunch more mediocre to great PPV's. But remember he booked from 97 to 99 the law of averages says he HAS to have a few good ones.

Yeah, I forgot, Russo didn't book SummerSlam 99'.

 

Anyway, those PPVs you mentioned aren't really great. They had maybe 1 or 2 matches on them, with the rest being crap.

 

Hey, reminds me of 2002...

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Yes, WM 15 was a terrible PPV. But who was booking back then? It was everyone's favorite writer, Vince Russo. I don't think Russo had more than ONE good PPV. The only PPV that was good under his reign (if my memory serves me correct) is SummerSlam.

 

Russo was more known for his storylines, not quality of wrestling, as everyone knows. WM15 looked good on paper, but was shitty. Austin/Rock didn't even deliever, which they usually do.

 

So, WM9 and WM 15 are the worst PPVs. 9 is worst, IMHO.

Russo booked SummerSlam 97-98, Survivor Series 97, Canadian Stampede: IYH, Ground Zero: IYH, Final Four: IYH, WrestleMania XIV, KOTR 98, BreakDown: IYH, and a bunch more mediocre to great PPV's. But remember he booked from 97 to 99 the law of averages says he HAS to have a few good ones.

Yeah, I forgot, Russo didn't book SummerSlam 99'.

 

Anyway, those PPVs you mentioned aren't really great. They had maybe 1 or 2 matches on them, with the rest being crap.

 

Hey, reminds me of 2002...

Candian Stampede didn't have a single match under *** stars.

 

Ground Zero had a **** UT/HBK bout, a good Bret Hart match, and some other assorted good stuff.

 

 

Most of the ones I mentioned are good PPV's considering how weak the WWF's line-up was in 97.

[Guest Mole]

Yes, WM 15 was a terrible PPV. But who was booking back then? It was everyone's favorite writer, Vince Russo. I don't think Russo had more than ONE good PPV. The only PPV that was good under his reign (if my memory serves me correct) is SummerSlam.

 

Russo was more known for his storylines, not quality of wrestling, as everyone knows. WM15 looked good on paper, but was shitty. Austin/Rock didn't even deliever, which they usually do.

 

So, WM9 and WM 15 are the worst PPVs. 9 is worst, IMHO.

Russo booked SummerSlam 97-98, Survivor Series 97, Canadian Stampede: IYH, Ground Zero: IYH, Final Four: IYH, WrestleMania XIV, KOTR 98, BreakDown: IYH, and a bunch more mediocre to great PPV's. But remember he booked from 97 to 99 the law of averages says he HAS to have a few good ones.

Yeah, I forgot, Russo didn't book SummerSlam 99'.

 

Anyway, those PPVs you mentioned aren't really great. They had maybe 1 or 2 matches on them, with the rest being crap.

 

Hey, reminds me of 2002...

Candian Stampede didn't have a single match under *** stars.

 

Ground Zero had a **** UT/HBK bout, a good Bret Hart match, and some other assorted good stuff.

 

 

Most of the ones I mentioned are good PPV's considering how weak the WWF's line-up was in 97.

Man I am dumb. I forgot about Candian Stampede. Next to WM X7, that is one of the best PPVs. I think there was something in the water that night.

[Guest ManKinnd]

Fuck Goldberg. Here's a guy who has no respect for the business and prematurely ended the career of a wrestling icon (I don't like Bret at all, but I have to admit he's well-known) and you guys think they ought to bring him in full time?

Why has D'Lo never been chastized (sp?) for what he did to Droz? Every time someone talks about bringing back Goldberg, at least one person talks about him ending Bret's career. Well, you all remember D'Lo Brown prematurely ending a career, but since that guy wasn't a legend, he doesn't count? Did his broken neck hurt less than Bret's concussion? Don't have a fucking double standard. No one minds that D'Lo's back. Both had one mistake. Stay consistent.

[Guest the pinjockey]

The difference is D' Lo incident was generally regarded as an accident(IIRC, he slipped or something) and he certainly was punished for it (Turbins ring a bell?) While Goldberg was being careless with his opponent. Kicking someone in the head full force is something that is just careless, it wasn't accidental.

[Guest Mole]

The difference is D' Lo incident was generally regarded as an accident(IIRC, he slipped or something) and he certainly was punished for it (Turbins ring a bell?) While Goldberg was being careless with his opponent. Kicking someone in the head full force is something that is just careless, it wasn't accidental.

Well, we don't know for a fact that he was careless or it was accidental. Actually, I haven't seen the footage when it happened, so I don't really know. But from what I have heard people saying, he COULD of accidently hit him too hard in the head.

 

Accidents happen in the wrestling ring. When a wrestler goes out into the ring, they know that they could get hurt. Lets face it, shit happens and people make mistakes. We are all human, including wrestlers.

 

If someone did it on purpose, that would be another story.

[Guest Brian]

It's been said many times but Goldberg was unrestrained in the ring because of his light training. It was an accident too but it was an accident that resulted from a guy wanting nothing to do with the business being pushed into a spotlight that he wasn't prepped for. He had a rep for being stiff and sloppy.

 

D'Lo was an isolated incident over a spot they had practiced many times.

[Guest godthedog]

Yes, WM 15 was a terrible PPV. But who was booking back then? It was everyone's favorite writer, Vince Russo. I don't think Russo had more than ONE good PPV. The only PPV that was good under his reign (if my memory serves me correct) is SummerSlam.

 

Russo was more known for his storylines, not quality of wrestling, as everyone knows. WM15 looked good on paper, but was shitty. Austin/Rock didn't even deliever, which they usually do.

 

So, WM9 and WM 15 are the worst PPVs. 9 is worst, IMHO.

Russo booked SummerSlam 97-98, Survivor Series 97, Canadian Stampede: IYH, Ground Zero: IYH, Final Four: IYH, WrestleMania XIV, KOTR 98, BreakDown: IYH, and a bunch more mediocre to great PPV's. But remember he booked from 97 to 99 the law of averages says he HAS to have a few good ones.

Yeah, I forgot, Russo didn't book SummerSlam 99'.

 

Anyway, those PPVs you mentioned aren't really great. They had maybe 1 or 2 matches on them, with the rest being crap.

 

Hey, reminds me of 2002...

Candian Stampede didn't have a single match under *** stars.

 

Ground Zero had a **** UT/HBK bout, a good Bret Hart match, and some other assorted good stuff.

 

 

Most of the ones I mentioned are good PPV's considering how weak the WWF's line-up was in 97.

Man I am dumb. I forgot about Candian Stampede. Next to WM X7, that is one of the best PPVs. I think there was something in the water that night.

you're also forgetting their uk ppv, 'one night only', which had the best bret/undertaker match EVER and a damn fine hbk/bulldog match.

 

Why has D'Lo never been chastized (sp?) for what he did to Droz? Every time someone talks about bringing back Goldberg, at least one person talks about him ending Bret's career. Well, you all remember D'Lo Brown prematurely ending a career, but since that guy wasn't a legend, he doesn't count? Did his broken neck hurt less than Bret's concussion? Don't have a fucking double standard. No one minds that D'Lo's back. Both had one mistake. Stay consistent.

better question (at least i think): why has owen hart never been chastized for dropping steve austin on his head, almost breaking his neck and doubtlessly shortening his career?

[Guest gwf0704]

I've heard and read Brett Hart mention on many occassions that he does not blame Goldberg, but rather WCW for the accident (his word) as he felt Goldberg was rushed into the wrestling scene and did not have enough training. I've yet to hear Hart say it was Goldberg's fault or it was intentional.

 

The common fan does still know who Goldberg is and a Goldberg/Rock, Goldberg/Austin match would sell out as most fans know all 3 of them by name alone. The common fan does not have any idea who Brock Lesnar is.

Buyrates is what Vince is looking for here so I don't disagree with it.

 

D-Lo, whether accidental or just dumb luck, did paralyze another human being yet he is still beloved. It's just that he is a Smark darling who will be overlooked in that instance where someone like Big Show, Hogan or Nash would get ripped on the board. If Benoit were to seriously injure another wrestler the Smarks would call it an unfortunate accident as he is the god of the Smarks.

 

No one complains about Owen almost ending Austin's career because he is sadly deceased. Also, he was a Smark darling so he will never be criticized.

These are things I note on the board that if Smarks hate a wrestler (Goldberg, Hogan, Nash, Big Show, HHH, RVD) or love a wrestler (Booker T, Angle, Jericho, Edge, Eddie Guerrero) no matter what they do its either going to always be bad or they can do no wrong.

 

just my 2 cents.......

[Guest Mole]

Yes, WM 15 was a terrible PPV. But who was booking back then? It was everyone's favorite writer, Vince Russo. I don't think Russo had more than ONE good PPV. The only PPV that was good under his reign (if my memory serves me correct) is SummerSlam.

 

Russo was more known for his storylines, not quality of wrestling, as everyone knows. WM15 looked good on paper, but was shitty. Austin/Rock didn't even deliever, which they usually do.

 

So, WM9 and WM 15 are the worst PPVs. 9 is worst, IMHO.

Russo booked SummerSlam 97-98, Survivor Series 97, Canadian Stampede: IYH, Ground Zero: IYH, Final Four: IYH, WrestleMania XIV, KOTR 98, BreakDown: IYH, and a bunch more mediocre to great PPV's. But remember he booked from 97 to 99 the law of averages says he HAS to have a few good ones.

Yeah, I forgot, Russo didn't book SummerSlam 99'.

 

Anyway, those PPVs you mentioned aren't really great. They had maybe 1 or 2 matches on them, with the rest being crap.

 

Hey, reminds me of 2002...

Candian Stampede didn't have a single match under *** stars.

 

Ground Zero had a **** UT/HBK bout, a good Bret Hart match, and some other assorted good stuff.

 

 

Most of the ones I mentioned are good PPV's considering how weak the WWF's line-up was in 97.

Man I am dumb. I forgot about Candian Stampede. Next to WM X7, that is one of the best PPVs. I think there was something in the water that night.

you're also forgetting their uk ppv, 'one night only', which had the best bret/undertaker match EVER and a damn fine hbk/bulldog match.

 

Okay, well I was wrong about Russo never having a good PPV, there were some good ones. Plus, I never saw 'One Night Only', so shoot me.

 

However, when Russo stopped booking right after No Mercy (if memory serves me correct it was after No Mercy, it might of been SummerSlam) WWF had 10 out of13 GREAT PPVs. So bascially, WWF was on a role right after Russo left, when it came to delivering PPVs.

 

WWF was better off for PPVs without Russo, IMHO.

[Guest Brian]

I think over the last year or two the WWE has proven that big names only have a limited draw. Especially WCW names, because Goldberg was as much apart of the fall of WCW as anyone.

 

As for the accident, yes it was an accident, but the difference was that D'Lo didn't have a rep for being stiff and sloppy whereas Goldberg did.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

D-Lo, whether accidental or just dumb luck, did paralyze another human being yet he is still beloved. It's just that he is a Smark darling who will be overlooked in that instance where someone like Big Show, Hogan or Nash would get ripped on the board. If Benoit were to seriously injure another wrestler the Smarks would call it an unfortunate accident as he is the god of the Smarks.

No, there's a difference. D'Lo was punished. His punishment was quite severe and long-lasting.

 

 

Goldberg was never punished. Just like how the Steiners never got punished for stiffing the shit out of so many Japanese guys. In WCW, a punishment was to count your millions quietly. The inmates were running the asylum.