"Smooth" Ranked As #1 Rock Song Of All-time

[Guest DrTom]

It won't go away, so you have to listen to it? what the fuck?

I think the point he was trying to make is that a lot of people profess hatred of the mainstream, and the only reason seems to be that it IS the mainstream. As in the, "Look at me, I'm so cool and rebellious that I only listen to underground music." We all know people who hate mainstream music because it makes them feel like James Dean to listen to bands few people have heard of, and try to impress others with their obscure tastes and knowledge.

[Guest Kinetic]

That's such a misconception. I've never met anyone who listened to underground or obscure music solely for the purpose of looking cool. Is it inconceivable that mainstream music in its current state has alienated people to the point where they're willing to seek out alternatives, for the sake of their own edification and not just to impress other world-weary hipsters?

[Guest DrTom]

I've never met anyone who listened to underground or obscure music solely for the purpose of looking cool.

I have. Basically, as soon as a band makes it to the radio and/or signs with a major label, he hates them. He's also the type who enjoys trying to impress people with obscure things, so I know the music he listens to is tied to that.

 

Is it inconceivable that mainstream music in its current state has alienated people to the point where they're willing to seek out alternatives, for the sake of their own edification and not just to impress other world-weary hipsters?

Not at all. However, "mainstream music" covers a multitude of genres. Crappy girl-band acts like Britney are mainstream, but so are hard rockers like Godsmack and Metallica, and rappers like Eminem. Considering the diversity present in the mainstream, I think someone would have a hard time hating it all. Hating a few genres is pretty typical, but everything that's mainstream? I have to wager that's not too common.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

Railing against mainstream, corporate culture, fast food, Microsoft, anything thats popular...well, I know I speak for many that I can't be arsed being annoyed at these things and would rather have a good satisfying wank.

 

 

 

Except Nelly. And Furbies. I fear them.

[Guest IDrinkRatsMilk]

I listened to music just for the image for a long time. I spent years of my life, actually, where everything I did was carefully engineered to make me look cool.

Having said that, though, I don't understand how music like the songs on this list get to be so popular. I'd say at least 75% of the people I talk to hate this type of music, and not just my personal circle of friends either. Is it just saturation? People being compelled to buy music they don't like because it gets played on the radio? I don't know.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

It won't go away, so you have to listen to it? what the fuck?

I think the point he was trying to make is that a lot of people profess hatred of the mainstream, and the only reason seems to be that it IS the mainstream. As in the, "Look at me, I'm so cool and rebellious that I only listen to underground music." We all know people who hate mainstream music because it makes them feel like James Dean to listen to bands few people have heard of, and try to impress others with their obscure tastes and knowledge.

I know so many people this way, and I admit for a time I used to feel that way as well, until I found out what I considered "underground" was really just "lower mainstream". Talk to any fan of Blink 182-ish "punk fan" and you'll get an idea of what I was like. Pretty funny now that I know better... SPIN isn't underground. Underground are the guys playing in the garage across the street. If you're mentioned anywhere in any magazine, or someone else has heard of you, sorry hipsters, you're mainstream!

 

As for the actual list, why anyone would go to Billboard for anything other than a "greatest hits" or "where are they now?" exercise is beyond me. Although I loved it and first (and even learned how to butcher it on the guitar), I got tired of "Smooth" fairly quickly; my favorite song on Supernatural is "Put Your Lights On". As for songs on the list I don't mind... "The Twist" baby! I'd also add "Mack the Knife", but I've never heard the original (which I'm downloading now; never knew who exactly did the original until now). As for the rest of the list, I skimmed it but I'm sure there's something else on that list. If "One Sweet Day" or "I'll Make Love to You" was on there I'd take that over Nickelback (another decent song that got played to death, exhumed, heavily beaten, and then played more).

[Guest Incandenza]

We all know people who hate mainstream music because it makes them feel like James Dean to listen to bands few people have heard of, and try to impress others with their obscure tastes and knowledge.

 

I don't feel "cool" for what I listen to. Were I cool, my extensive knowledge of Tom Waits would get me women. Plus, who would we be impressing? Other loser nerds who frequent record shops looking for long out-of-print singles by obscure British power pop bands? That don't win ya poon.

 

And I've encountered the kind of people you're talking about, but, after talking with them, I discovered that they're not as anti-social in their tastes as they would at first seem. People have felt that way about me, but then they discover I like Nelly Furtado. I've also encountered people who automatically hate everything and anything underground/indie, blindly calling those who enjoy it "snobs." It goes both ways.

 

Oh, the only thing I take exception to what Kinetic said was him calling the kind of people that enjoy nothing but mainstream music "braindead hicks." Yeah, I think the great majority of popular music is crap, but a lot of people think what I listen to is crap. Just 'cuz they're wrong doesn't give me the privilege of insulting them.

[Guest Kinetic]

But if you're a braindead hick, chances are you're going to listen to mainstream music. That's not to imply that everyone who listens to mainstream music exclusively is braindead. I accept and understand that music simply isn't as important to most other people as it is to me, and as a result they're not going to spend countless hours researching hip indie records to invest in. But I'd definitely wager to say that the majority of braindead hicks listen to some facet of mainstream music, usually in between bouts of dog-kicking.

[Guest EricMM]

That list is wrong for the sole reason that I don't consider many of the songs in the top 10 to be "rock".

 

I understand the reasoning for the list, but I would call it the "Top Selling rock singles" or something. No top 100 rock songs would be that deviod of TOOL, or Led Zepplin, or SOMETHING.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

The thing is, is that most of us don't listen to obscure music just because it's obscure. In fact, I doubt I like a thing that Inc or Kinetic pimp on here. I know I don't like the stuff they pimp that I've heard. Even "elitists" are like that towards each other. If I don't like something, I don't like it. I think it sounds bad, or boring, or just poorly-written. That's what I classify every song on that list as. It's not just because they're popular, it's because I don't like listening to them.

[Guest geniusMoment]

I work at media play and none of those bands are in are rock section. some are in the pop section while others are in the Rap and R & B section. they should have just said top songs not rock songs because they are inaccurate in their statement about these being rock songs. Rap and R&B are different entities of music and cannot be classified as rock.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

The only thing debatable about this list is the use of the word "rock" in the title. Otherwise, it's just statistical information. Saying you don't like it is just as meaningful as saying you don't like the "top 10 career yardage gained by NFL running backs list" because O.J., Emmitt, and Sanders are on it while (insert player) is not.

[Guest Narcoleptic Jumper]

I hate calling "Smooth" a Santana song. That was so totally Rob's song, with a Santana guitar lick in it.

[Guest DrTom]

I don't feel "cool" for what I listen to.

My post wasn't directed at anyone on this board, even though I guess it might seem like it was.

 

I've also encountered people who automatically hate everything and anything underground/indie, blindly calling those who enjoy it "snobs." It goes both ways.

Sure. And it's equally silly from both sides of the fence. A lot of what I listen to is mainstream, but there is a LOT of mainstream music that I simply won't go near. I get turned onto indy bands every now and again; some I like, some I don't.

 

Oh, the only thing I take exception to what Kinetic said was him calling the kind of people that enjoy nothing but mainstream music "braindead hicks."

Eh. I considered it a "touche" for me ragging on people who pathologically hate the mainstream.

 

Here's a point to ponder, though: in this post-Napster age, how long do "underground" bands remain that way? It used to be bootlegs getting passed around at concerts and the like; now, music is traded online on a plethora of p2p clients. It's much more immediate, and it potentially reaches a much wider audience. If the future of music really is digital distribution (and I think it is, despite the RIAA blindly doing everything they can to cling to an outmoded business model), maybe the definitions of "mainstream" and "underground" might need some tweaking.

[Guest J*ingus]

I've known, oh, dozens of would-be hipsters who listened to obscure music and knocked the mainstream just to be cool. Of course, I did go to a college with a huge music production program, where you couldn't walk down the sidewalk without tripping over a guitarist.

 

And I've encountered many, many mindless idiots who would just dismiss such music as "weird" or "that sucks" since they hadn't heard it on the radio and seen it on MTV a thousand goddamn times.

[Guest Incandenza]

Here's a point to ponder, though: in this post-Napster age, how long do "underground" bands remain that way? It used to be bootlegs getting passed around at concerts and the like; now, music is traded online on a plethora of p2p clients. It's much more immediate, and it potentially reaches a much wider audience. If the future of music really is digital distribution (and I think it is, despite the RIAA blindly doing everything they can to cling to an outmoded business model), maybe the definitions of "mainstream" and "underground" might need some tweaking.

I don't see how it would change very much. In spite of that potential for a wider audience, so-called "underground" acts will rarely experience enough success to where the lines between mainstream and underground are blurred. As for mainstream, regardless of how we'll be listening to music 50 years from now, the major record companies will always be there, and as long as radio and MTV still exist, the mainstream will be whatever they decide to push.

[Guest deadbeater]

On New Year's Day 1996 the first video I saw was "Macarena". I started dancing with the people in the video, and I knew then it would be a monster.

 

Come on, it's about a woman who broke up with her boyfriend and lashed out at him by doing a threesome with his friends. What's more rebellious and rock than that? The so-called 'Undeground' don't do songs as nasty and nice.

[Guest DrTom]

As for mainstream, regardless of how we'll be listening to music 50 years from now, the major record companies will always be there...

That's the thing, though: I don't think the major record companies will be around in fifty years' time. They're on the path to extinction already. Instead of trying to integrate digital distribution into their business model, they're still charging $18 for something that costs about $1 to make and ship (despite losing a lawsuit about price-fixing), and they're still suing into oblivion anyone who has a newer idea. Napster opened the floodgates of digital music, and the RIAA's shoddy efforts (Pressplay and whatever the other piece of shit service is called) just don't match up. I can't copy what I download? Fuck you, RIAA. It expires after 30 days? Fuck you again.

 

All it's going to take is for a few bigger-name bands to break away from the RIAA and start offering their albums for download online. Despite the ridiculous number of people who download their music for free, if they could go to, say, creed.com and download their latest album for $3.95, I think they'd do it. It's more money for the bands, and it gets them away from the RIAA's stranglehold on other rights issues.

 

I think the large record companies, and the RIAA with them, will go the way of the dodo within twenty years.

[Guest EricMM]

But does the record industry control radios, videos, and all that?

 

If an artist doesn't have a label isn't it really hard to get a hit?

[Guest NoCalMike]

Well, the mainstream from the 50's/60's/70's is certainly a different crop from today. Led Zeppllin were most likely THE BEST of their time at what they did as far as actual talent went. So liking "mainstream" classic rock is no problem to me. I don't really hate mainstream music as much as I hate the fact that everything that doesn't fit into the circle is shut out and shunned by the corporate machine. For example, I despise bands like Nickelback and Creed, however I wouldn't really mind as much if other lesser known bands also got airplay on the radio. The problem is, most mainstream music is not designed for people to like until they hear it a good 5 or 6 times....that is the goal of radio, to pound the same 8 - 15 songs into your head until you like it. I have a damn Justin Timberlake song stuck in my head because of the radio being on at work. I hate the music, but I probobaly know about 90% of N'Syncs lyrics by default.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

Here's a point to ponder, though: in this post-Napster age, how long do "underground" bands remain that way? It used to be bootlegs getting passed around at concerts and the like; now, music is traded online on a plethora of p2p clients. It's much more immediate, and it potentially reaches a much wider audience. If the future of music really is digital distribution (and I think it is, despite the RIAA blindly doing everything they can to cling to an outmoded business model), maybe the definitions of "mainstream" and "underground" might need some tweaking.

Although it's nice to think it will, p2p hasn't changed a thing, only made the big record companies more desperate (hence "FREE BONUS DVD~!"). Sure, it's technically possible to find tons of "underground" music, but the fact is that p2p software is so "popular" that often the only thing you can find is "mainstream music". You'd think that with a billion users online with KaZaA at once there'd be all sorts of different genres and artists represented, but it's just a billion people with different "mainstream artists". For example, if I search for an "underground" band such as Broken Bones (my default "underground" band since, even though as "underground punk" goes they're very well-known, I love 'em to death and can't find any of their CDs or MP3s anywhere), if I'm lucky I'll find one user with one song, but if I search for Neil Young's "My My Hey Hey" I'll find 75+ users with that song. All p2p software does for me is save me from buying half a dozen classic rock and popular albums, since all I can find is their singles. I even put in friggin' Bruce Springsteen one night and the only download I could get to work was "Born in the U.S.A." No Nebraska or any of the lesser-popular material for a popular artist. It's gotten that bad.

 

Plus, when you DO find an "underground music community", they're often the most exclusive, snobbish people in the world. Let's say I want to check out Broken Bones, and I find an online group of individuals that trades only "underground punk songs". In all likelihood, if I don't have any new "undergroudn punk songs" they won't let me download or talk to them about anything. Of course, these will be the people to have literally every punk group I've never heard of, and if all I have is like The Ramones or something they wouldn't want that since it's not "underground" and doesn't fit their qualifications.

 

p2p = seriously overrated. It saves me a bit of cash, but that's about it. If the band isn't super popular, or heaven forbid, so unknown that I've never even heard of the band, it's very rare I can find anything good to sample and I still gotta shell out beaucoups-de-dollares for the CD. Which is why, despite technical freedom of information and data, there will always be an "underground".

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Pick up cds from indie labels. Just randomly buy shit for cheap, then just go sell it back for less money and get something different. Burn cds relentlessly, too.

[Guest Incandenza]

evenflow pretty much nailed what would've been my response to Tom. Good job, Ed.

[Guest NoCalMike]

I have never used p2p to avoid buying CDs. For me p2p is perfect for when you like 1 song from a random 80's band, but have no intention of paying $20 to fill the pockets of the RIAA in order to hear that ONE song. Yes, there are people out there that will download an entire album at a time, but that is NOT the majority. Most people I know that burn music, have 90% of their songs all mixed.

[Guest Gamengiri2002]

You know what REALLY pisses me off? It's not the guys who are die hard indie loyalists rallying against the mainstream. It's the Korn and Disturbed fans who somehow believe they are apart from mainstream music fans and believe that they, in their own right, have obscure musical tastes.

 

I can tolerate people who can actually differentiate between mainstream and obscure, even if they are stuck up pricks about it, it's those who can't see the thick black line dividing them that I hate feverishly.

[Guest DrTom]

Although it's nice to think it will, p2p hasn't changed a thing

If that's true, explain all the legislation designed to stop it. No one would care if it hadn't changed anything. But what p2p did was awaken a lot of people to the fact that they don't have to pay $18 for a round hunk of plastic with maybe three good songs on it. I think the main problem with p2p now is that there's no flagship service out there. Napster could have really been pioneers here, but their lack of a spine prevented that, and no service since has filled that gap quite as well.

 

For example, if I search for an "underground" band such as Broken Bones (my default "underground" band since, even though as "underground punk" goes they're very well-known, I love 'em to death and can't find any of their CDs or MP3s anywhere), if I'm lucky I'll find one user with one song

It must be dependent upon when you're searching. I just did a search fro Broken Bones and got 24 hits. Not as much as for a mainstream act, certainly, but not bad for an indy band. Songs include "Fight The Good Fight," "Annihilation No. 3," "Love Inc," and "Terrorist Attack." It's anecdotal, but a friend of mine had his CD collection stolen a couple years back, when Napster was still king. He had a good number of indy CDs and CDs from lesser-known bands on major labels. Since he lacked a CD burner, I was able to track down playlists and get a lot of the songs off Napster. I couldn't give him all his CDs back, but I was able to replace a few he thought he'd have to search high and low for. Maybe it depends when you log on, how you define your searches, which node/network you're authenticating to, etc.

 

Plus, when you DO find an "underground music community", they're often the most exclusive, snobbish people in the world.

I've encountered quite a few chaps like that. If that's what happens to people when they embrace the indy scene, I'll keep listening to the radio, thanks. Hell, I'm enough of a stuck-up prick without being a total snob about the music I listen to, too.

 

p2p = seriously overrated. It saves me a bit of cash, but that's about it.

It's saved me quite a good bit of cash. I've bought exactly zero CDs since I got broadband internet and discovered the wonders of file sharing about two and a half years ago. I refuse to buy a CD because I won't give the RIAA one red cent. If bands would break away from them, like I mentioned above, and offer albums for download on their own sites, I'd happily fork over a few dollars to download the CD.

 

Give p2p time. It's got some decent storms to weather, with groups like the RIAA trying to buy enough Congressmen to lead a real assault. It's still new technology, and even on the music side, has evolved past just mp3 format. Give it a few years, when a lot more people are online at higher speeds. I think you'll be a lot more impressed than you are now.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

I've heard some crazy shit via file sharing that I didn't even know existed. Mainly cover songs by bands I dig, live things, stuff like that.

 

For instance, Type O Negative covering Sarah McLachlan's Possession. Same with Slayer doing Inna Gadda Da Vida.

 

Heh, if you read this, Laz, download that Slayer cover if you've never heard it, it's fuckin' HILARIOUS. Not that they try to make it funny or a joke or anything, it's just the same song, shortened up dramatically, only it's friggin' Slayer. It's sounds exactly the way you're thinking it sounds.