What Brock can do vs. what Brock does

[Guest AndrewTS]

Okay...we know about Brock Lesnar's amateur background. I also know that being an amateur doesn't make one automatically a prime candidate for being a professional wrestler.

 

However, Brock COULD be quite capable of being something l like a slightly more hoss-like Kurt Angle. Not as good mind you, but something along those lines. The guy is freakishly strong, CAN wrestle, is rather fast and agile, and can even do a friggin' Shooting Star Press for crying out loud.

 

Nothing he's done in WWE is anything to write home about, because for some reason, WWE has made Brock Lesnar become a generic power wrestler. Now as a face, he's practically a blatant Goldberg clone. What he CAN do is different than what he WILL do, since has to wrestle like Vince and the WWE want him to do. The "WWE style."

 

We know that isn't his fault...but whose to say that this isn't the same for a lot of "hosses?" Take Test, for instance (PLEASE! *dodges tomatoes*).

 

Watch his matches at about a year in WWF. He could move pretty well, he had some cool looking power moves, but also nifty powerbomb variations, and could drop a pretty good Macho elbow. I'd joked that he reminded me somewhat of Nash and HBK as far as look and a little bit with the moveset.

 

Before the flames come, I know that Test has no concept of psychology--he'd do those moves about 10 seconds after the bell, wouldn't work an area for any real reason. Even RVD and Edge on their worst days would blush at his infinitely shitty selling. However, he had the atheticism to be quite impressive.

 

Now look at him. Short hair, short tights, a stolen finisher with no real reason for him to use it. His last finisher was a freakin' big boot. From bell to bell he'd fill time with punches, punches, knees, knees, and other shitty offense (hey, if he and Steph had been an item in real life, AS would REALLY be pissed).

 

However, these big guys, not including guys like Big Show and Mark Henry who couldn't for obvious reasons, could have been impressive and versitile athletes. With the proper training, one could easily make a wrestler far better than Mike Awesome with the potential to be as good as Vader.

 

I don't think everyone that size SHOULD be wrestling like a cruiser, but it would be fun to watch, and would be better than plodding around the ring throwing punches and clotheslines at each other. However, it won't happen, at least not in WWE.

 

It's not "the WWE style."

 

When O'Haire finally comes back on one of the A-shows, he'll be as shitty and watered down as Test was, although maybe a slightly better worker. He'll be completely WWE-ized.

 

Of course...Vince thinks, "who needs good or entertaining matches?"

[Guest Anglesault]

Okay...we know about Brock Lesnar's amateur background. I also know that being an amateur doesn't make one automatically a prime candidate for being a professional wrestler.

THANK YOU. Finally.

 

We have seen SHIT from Brock. But you all claim that he'll be like the second coming when they finally let him "do what he can do" HOW DO WE KNOW THIS? We ASSUME he can, but WE HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE, now do we?

[ChrisMWaters 0]

As it says in your sig Andy...WWE logic is at work, which causes the WWE style to permiate our lives.

[Guest Downhome]

WWE holds everyone back from what they could really do, that's nothing new really.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Okay...we know about Brock Lesnar's amateur background.  I also know that being an amateur doesn't make one automatically a prime candidate for being a professional wrestler.

THANK YOU. Finally.

 

We have seen SHIT from Brock. But you all claim that he'll be like the second coming when they finally let him "do what he can do" HOW DO WE KNOW THIS? We ASSUME he can, but WE HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE, now do we?

Unless Vince loses all influence, and that influence is picked up with someone who is willing to let the wrestlers have more slack, then Brock's style will still be basically the same then, the day after, ten years from now--forever.

 

Angle was an amateur who apparently learned a LOT from guys like Benoit, and was like a sponge soaking up knowledge. I think the fact that Angle is a quick learner made people think ANYONE who was an amateur could do nearly as well.

 

That's not true, and for sure won't be if they are going to tell a guy to wrestle a certain way anyway.

[Guest Brian]

Really, do we need a thread like this? It's just bait.

 

Brock shouldn't be judged on the same level as Angle because there's a totally different way in how they were handled from their push to the style to the kind of matches to their opponents.

[Guest Mole]

Well, I've said this before and I'll say it again. One reason we don't know what Brock is capable of is because he hasn't had any good wrestler to wrestle against.

 

He has had the Rock and RVD. The Rock match was about *** and the RVD match was terrible. But RVD is a different kind of wrestler, so, yeah.

 

Brock has yet to fight someone who has good wrestling skills. Someone like Benoit, Eddy, even Edge.

 

We will know what Brock can do, and if he really is the future of the WWE when he fights Angle. I am sure he and Angle will have a good bout. However if they don't, then Brock isn't going to be what we think he can be.

[Guest Brian]

He did get Eddy is a squash

[Guest AndrewTS]

He did get Eddy is a squash

Right. It wasn't Brock's choice. The booking obviously called for a squash, so he had to give them a squash.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

He did get Eddy is a squash

Right. It wasn't Brock's choice. The booking obviously called for a squash, so he had to give them a squash.

I wish that they didn't put Lesnar in so many squashes...

 

See how he REALLY can compete.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Really, do we need a thread like this? It's just bait.

 

Brock shouldn't be judged on the same level as Angle because there's a totally different way in how they were handled from their push to the style to the kind of matches to their opponents.

It's not even about Brock. He's just an example. The point is, WWE hosses and hossoids are told how to wrestle, and suffer even more from the "WWE style" than Benoit or Eddy. Those guys can cope because they aren't expected to power wrestler. Hosses are. So even if they can WRESTLE and do impressive high flying moves, they aren't allowed to.

[Guest AndrewTS]

He did get Eddy is a squash

Right. It wasn't Brock's choice. The booking obviously called for a squash, so he had to give them a squash.

I wish that they didn't put Lesnar in so many squashes...

 

See how he REALLY can compete.

Right. All Lesnar matches versus smaller guys and guys who aren't considered main eventers will be squashes. That's what Vince wants. And it means a lot of his matches are doomed to be shitty and will be predicable with 99% accuracy.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

He did get Eddy is a squash

Right. It wasn't Brock's choice. The booking obviously called for a squash, so he had to give them a squash.

I wish that they didn't put Lesnar in so many squashes...

 

See how he REALLY can compete.

Right. All Lesnar matches versus smaller guys and guys who aren't considered main eventers will be squashes. That's what Vince wants. And it means a lot of his matches are doomed to be shitty and will be predicable with 99% accuracy.

Exactly.

 

Sorta like Austin's matches against lower card guys...they were pretty predictible too, IIRC.

[Guest Anglesault]

He did get Eddy is a squash

Right. It wasn't Brock's choice. The booking obviously called for a squash, so he had to give them a squash.

I wish that they didn't put Lesnar in so many squashes...

 

See how he REALLY can compete.

 

Is it possible that they have him do this because it's what Brock does best? Maybe Brock just isn't very good and that is how they decide to hide it?

 

I haven't seen these huge improvements that suddenly make him so awesome and a held down talent. But then again, maybe I'm just missing it. Repeatedly.

[Guest Coffey]

The only thing that I have seen from Lesnar, is his finisher getting more sloppy as his t.v. time increases.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

He did get Eddy is a squash

Right. It wasn't Brock's choice. The booking obviously called for a squash, so he had to give them a squash.

I wish that they didn't put Lesnar in so many squashes...

 

See how he REALLY can compete.

 

Is it possible that they have him do this because it's what Brock does best? Maybe Brock just isn't very good and that is how they decide to hide it?

 

I haven't seen these huge improvements that suddenly make him so awesome and a held down talent. But then again, maybe I'm just missing it. Repeatedly.

It's kinda hard when every match he has on TV is a squash.

 

His match with the Rock showed some good skill improvement to me.

 

If he got more matches like that, who knows what he could do.

[Guest Anglesault]

He did get Eddy is a squash

Right. It wasn't Brock's choice. The booking obviously called for a squash, so he had to give them a squash.

I wish that they didn't put Lesnar in so many squashes...

 

See how he REALLY can compete.

 

Is it possible that they have him do this because it's what Brock does best? Maybe Brock just isn't very good and that is how they decide to hide it?

 

I haven't seen these huge improvements that suddenly make him so awesome and a held down talent. But then again, maybe I'm just missing it. Repeatedly.

It's kinda hard when every match he has on TV is a squash.

 

His match with the Rock showed some good skill improvement to me.

 

If he got more matches like that, who knows what he could do.

His match with rock showed that he isn't a total talentless hack and can have a good match with Rock. Wow, he's not Test. Push him to the moon. It was still only ***, BTW.

[Guest AndrewTS]

He did get Eddy is a squash

Right. It wasn't Brock's choice. The booking obviously called for a squash, so he had to give them a squash.

I wish that they didn't put Lesnar in so many squashes...

 

See how he REALLY can compete.

Right. All Lesnar matches versus smaller guys and guys who aren't considered main eventers will be squashes. That's what Vince wants. And it means a lot of his matches are doomed to be shitty and will be predicable with 99% accuracy.

Exactly.

 

Sorta like Austin's matches against lower card guys...they were pretty predictible too, IIRC.

Austin rarely faced lower card guys...although we know for certain that he's a great wrestler. Once his neck was fixed up he didn't have to be in brawls all of the time.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

His match with rock showed that he isn't a total talentless hack and can have a good match with Rock. Wow, he's not Test. Push him to the moon. It was still only ***, BTW.

Ah, but it showed he had more than guys like Test, Albert, DeMott, and such.

 

When used right, he can do well.

[Guest AndrewTS]

His match with rock showed that he isn't a total talentless hack and can have a good match with Rock. Wow, he's not Test. Push him to the moon. It was still only ***, BTW.

Ah, but it showed he had more than guys like Test, Albert, DeMott, and such.

 

When used right, he can do well.

Right. However, if Brock's going to be any good, he has to be so within the confines of the "WWE Style."

 

Although, if you asked JR he probably thinks Demott is as good as Vader since he can do a moonsault too.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

His match with rock showed that he isn't a total talentless hack and can have a good match with Rock. Wow, he's not Test. Push him to the moon. It was still only ***, BTW.

Ah, but it showed he had more than guys like Test, Albert, DeMott, and such.

 

When used right, he can do well.

Right. However, if Brock's going to be any good, he has to be so within the confines of the "WWE Style."

 

Although, if you asked JR he probably thinks Demott is as good as Vader since he can do a moonsault too.

Bah...I wish Vader would come back, sit on Ross' lap, and crush him like the insect he is.

 

...OK...had to get that evilness out of me.

[Guest Anglesault]

His match with rock showed that he isn't a total talentless hack and can have a good match with Rock. Wow, he's not Test. Push him to the moon. It was still only ***, BTW.

Ah, but it showed he had more than guys like Test, Albert, DeMott, and such.

Wow, throw him a parade.

 

And while we're out it, push him over The Chrisses, Eddy, Kurt, and Booker.

 

Oh, wait.

[Guest Mole]

How bout we don't know shit about Brock's talent, because we haven't seen him have a real wrestling match?

 

Both sides could be true. Vince puts him in squash matches because that is how he wants to book him. Or maybe it is because he needs to hide him, because he sucks.

 

We really don't know, so there is no point to argue it. Like I have said before, we won't know until he wrestles a match with a good wrestler, which isn't a squash match.

 

At WrestleMania against Kurt Angle. Until then, we won't know.

[Guest AndrewTS]

*sigh* The point isn't whether or not Brock IS any good, but that if he isn't, he and a lot of guys we consider worthless are a result of WWE blowing a chance to allow them to be so, since they wanted to shove them into ac certain style, like Brock into a Goldberg mold.

 

Hmmm...watching Unforgiven 2K2 DVD.

 

This made me laugh:

 

"Test has got unlimited potential..."

 

Along with "RVD may be the quicker of the two." (He's wrestling HHH.)

[Guest Mole]

Ohoh, I see your point Andrew.

 

Basically, we might not know if they are any good because WWE wants them to be a certain way.

 

For example, a wrestling like Test knows how to do a german suplex or a figure-four or any wrestling move. But we won't know that, because WWE wants them to wrestle a certain way.

 

Same way with Brock.

 

Do I got it ?

[Guest Anglesault]

Like I have said before, we won't know until he wrestles a match with a good wrestler.

 

At WrestleMania against Kurt Angle. Until then, we won't know.

And until then, instead of going by what everyone thinks he could be (One of the best in the company), I'll go by what I with my own eyes (He sucks)

[Guest Mole]

Alright Anglesault, do what pleases you.

[Guest Anglesault]

I'm willing to let him change my mind. I don't want to hate him.

[Guest Mole]

Yeah, that makes sense. If the guy shows he can wrestle, why hate him.

 

We will all see soon enough.

[Guest Matt Young]

Look, I don't know about his amateur background, but his OVW days showed that he could put on a thriller. Given a halfway decent opponent in a NON-squash match, Brock can be very entertaining. Hell, he even put on good matches with Bubba Ray Dudley, who is a merely average worker, and a HOSS~! to boot.